Hi there ?.
I?m after a ?cheap? new/newly-new car which was designed in the nineties with technology from the eighties- ish! My husband bemoans the advances in technology in newer cars as he?s unable to ?fix? these. I know that Dawoo (have I spelt that right?) used to produced warmed-up ancient Vauxhalls but is there any other manufacturer offering the same today? We?re not bothered about badge status, colour or origin ? we?re just after a car with all the complexity of a knife and fork. Someone has pointed me in the direction of a Rover 214 ? but all ideas and suggestions are awaited with interest. Our previously loyal old cars are now dead and dying ?. Help!
Thanks!
Deb
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Many early 90s cars embody many of the more laudable 80s elements of car making (that is to say sound engineering).
Examples include:
SAAB 900 classic (very easy to work on - lots of space in the engine bay) goes on forever with care
W124 Mercedes Benz (in its last years known as E class ...the one with square headlamps) another immortal
Mark 2 VW Golfs, enjoyable to drive and maintain - but heavy steering
Mark 3 VW Golfs - nothing too technical - but widely regarded as inferior build to predecessor
If you want new/ nearly new, then perhaps the newest old school car you can find is the original Mini - but they can fetch real money now.
What about a Land Rover Defender? They aren't too high tech....but good ones can be dear.
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Can't see how an original Mini could be 'new/nearly new' like the OP asked for.
I reckon a Berlingo with the XUD engine rather than HDI might be your best bet.
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Thanks ... do keep them coming. The suggestions are really useful! I know it's a bit of a mad post but there is a real sense amongst many we know that cars are over-engineered now. Beyond changing the oil and a few filters modern engines seem to be no-go areas for would-be Sunday afternoon 'mechanics'.
Deb
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The Berlingo has multiplex wiring though!
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The Berlingo has multiplex wiring though!
WASSAT ININGLISH
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Mk3 Vauxhall Cavalier with the bombproof and simple 2.0 8 valve engine (up to 1992-ish I think). Reliable and easy to fix when they do go wrong. Even the clutch can be changed in comfortably less than hour without having to move either the engine or gearbox. A brilliant design. Compare this with the same job on a Mondeo which takes 5 times as long and involves removing the entire front suspension and you get the idea.
All other routine jobs that I know of are easy with plenty of access to components, and cheap spares. I used to service a friend's J reg SRi version and it was a pleasure to work on.
I know so many of these Cavaliers that racked up 200,000 miles and still drove well, many were barely serviced (if at all) yet they all still sounded sweet and performed well.
Only body rot seems to let them down. Oh and the handling stinks.
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Peugeot 205 diesel. Available up to 1995, not hugely changed from 1983 as Peugeot got the whole thing so right to start with.
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Proton tend to rehash old Mitsubishi technology which is no bad thing, plus they are always cheap.
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My base model (pre catalyst) Vauxhall Carlton just ran and ran. I only got rid of it as it had been sideswiped when parked. The Omega that replaced it is rubbish by comparison!
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Thanks, thanks and thanks for all suggestions - new and old! We may have to try our luck with another old load-lugger, but KA is an interesting idea - (though I think they added lots of gizmos to this at its 2002 face-lift). Bit of a squeeze, though! Any other thoughts on modern .. ish cars would be great.
Deb
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The last Skoda Felicia takes some beating for easy mending , and cheap spares.
They were bought by old folks , so when they die you nip in and get one with few miles and FSH.
They are very reliable too, cheap as the proverbial chips- I have one!
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Oh and thehandling stinks.
We have speed cameras. What has handling got to do with it???!!!"
MD.
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An A3 ?P platers must be pretty easy to work on?
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The Merc 190 is very very solid too -- made up until 1993 / 1994 I think, few cars were ever built as well.
"Cooking" 1.8 or 2.0 cars are very cheap these days.
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Late model, old shape 1.6 8v Astra Club.
Nearly DIY fixable & good value.
VB
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Volvo 240: built in the 90's, technology from the 60's. They work well if sluggishly, frighten BMW drivers because of their heft, and can be easily repaired, if they aren't infested with tin-worm. Or a Land Rover of the farmer, not estate agent, variety?
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Late model Astra sounds promising. Thanks. M Suggested the Volvo to other half and he went on about fuel comsumption ..... good for pulling caravans though, apparently. Thanks ... this is great!
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>>I know so many of these Cavaliers that racked up 200,000 miles and still drove well, many were barely serviced (if at all) yet they all still sounded sweet and performed well.<<
You are right. I know 3 of those. Bullet proof reliability and simplicity that I doubt will ever be equalled again.
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Thanks! Hubbie thinks that a PICANTO might tick all of the right boxes regarding ease of maintenance??? The KA is a great suggestion with its old Fiesta engine, but it's just a bit too small. Have noted you can buy a new KA for about £5k! Keep them coming .... any late-plate suggestions would be great!!
Deb
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I think you can still buy the old shape VW Beetle. I thought they were still being built somewhere in the world and imported in to the UK using the original VW machinery.
Might be worth a look
Carse.
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Many of the suggestions are worthy but the cars are long in the tooth. Can I suggest a little bit of lateral thinking. If DIY maintenance is a priority the download the Haynes catalogue from tinyurl.com/26cmnf and see what the experts in DIY manuals think are worthy of inclusion among the more modern cars. They will only be manuals that will sell so Haynes will presumably have chosen those they feel the DIY'er can cope with. If you find something interesting, pop along to your local lending library and see if they can order the Haynes manual so you can then judge how difficult that model will be for home maintenance.
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Thanks .... considering a vehicle manufacturer which has a more 'nuts and bolts' philosophy to their cars isn't just about providing my other half with weekend oily entertainment - although this is partly the attraction. Our concens began to deepen when our local garage started to refer other customers to main dealer service centres.
Their reasoning was that some modern car problems (engine management problems etc) could only be properly diagnosed by the manufacturer's dealers. I admire their honeset approach on this!
You've all been a great help .. thanks!
PS ... Isn't Renault building a no-frills car for sale in Eastern Europe??
Beetle, I think, is now made in Brazil??
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Phase 1 306 or Citroen ZX, preferably with the 1.9TD XUD engine. They handle brilliantly, are relatively cheap to fix with no fancy engine management gizmos or electronic fuel injection systems go go belly up. Early to mid nineties models can be picked up for virtually peanuts now. Spare parts for these cars can be bought for bargain basement prices from breakers yards and ebay. The 306 in particular looks and drives as well as many cars built within the last couple of years.
Martin
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....PS ... Isn't Renault building a no-frills car for sale in Eastern Europe??
Beetle, I think, is now made in Brazil??
You´re thinking of the Dacia Logan.
The old beetle was made in Mexico IIRC. Production stopped a couple of years ago.
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How about a refurbished 2cv or dyanne?
www.2cvtv.com/Specialist/2cv-city.html
Or perhaps a VW camper?
www.danburymotorcaravans.com/
Has the Darcia Logan got to the UK yet?
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Thanks, yes, have always been a big fan of the PUG diesel unit. When did they start to jazz these up with engine management systems etc. Or, in other words, when did phase 1 models disappear for the 306? I guess I could probably find this out with a quick google .... but you lot are obviously so much more learned about these things. Didn't really want to go as old as a 306, but if we can find a good one then I guess it's worth a punt - especially as they seem to be very cheap!!
Thanks to everyone .
Deb
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I think you will probably find that all post 1990 cars are full of electrickery, and probably earlier too. So I think you will either have to put up with this, or get something much older that has been restored.
If you have an oldish modern car and something goes wrong, or needs diagnosing, the immediate question will be does the car's value justify the cost?
So you need to be pretty competent at car DIY either way, old or not so old, unless you get a newish car with a value that justifies the service and repair charges.
If going down the DIY route you have to keep up to date with modern electrics, diagnostics, etc, or else live forever in a time warp with shrinking boundaries, as the supply of old simple cars dries up.
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I followed backroom advice and got a 1996 Peugeot 306 XUD non turbo. The 1997 facelift models have the complicated (not cheap to fix) wiring. I went for the simplest one I could find - 306 Style. Annoyingly it has central locking which can and HAS gone wrong, but I suppose I could easily convert it to manual locking by removing a fuse.
I'm biased of course, but reckon this is for you. £1000 will get you a good one.
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OK ... thanks! We'll go looking for old 306 diesels - just have to keep away from those blown head gaskets! Not sure I could drive a non-turbo. (Used to have a 405 Style non-turbo and this was oh, so slow) So long as it's got POWER STEERING we should be OK. At £1000 it's disposable motoring I guess. A quick search in Ebay/Autotrader doesn't throw-up many seemingly sound examples. With a bit of luck a 10-year-old example will run for another few years - if we dcan find one. An estate would be a bonus!
Of course, if anyone else has alternative suggestions then feel free to throw them at us.
Deb
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How about a refurbished 2cv or dyanne? www.2cvtv.com/Specialist/2cv-city.html Or perhaps a VW camper? www.danburymotorcaravans.com/ Has the Darcia Logan got to the UK yet?
THANKS ... A Citroen has too many crumple zones. Like the idea of the VW, but they go for big bucks!
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1996 Peugeot 306 comes with power steering. As far as I know the head gasket problem concerns the turbos only. Performance wise, I can't see the need for the turbo. My regular motor is a 1.9TDi Audi which has a bit of low level grunt and I don't find the 306 a slouch. It'll happily cruise at well over 70mph (where the law permits). You see a lot of them around (if you look, like I do) and rot does not seem to be a problem. Plenty of L, M, N & P reg ones to be found.
On the DIY front - open the bonnet and the oil filter is staring you in the face asking to be changed just so easily.
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I can deal with the difficult DIY, the reliable brands don't actaully cost too much to maintain.
What I would also do is look at the EURO NCAP scores for the older cars - and also consider that they were tested new and as they get older they get weaker.
At the end of the day it is your money, and your family who would be in it!
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Thanks ... point taken, re the safety issue. My ideal would be to have a modern car which basically utilised old technology - the best of both worlds, I guess! However, on this, there doesn't seem to be a consensus.
As for the Skoda, it has to be worth a look. Oh, and we hadn't realised that it was only the turbos which were prone to the head gasket issue for the 306 The French think nothing of running these for 15+ years. We do seem to be a bit hung-up on always running new cars in the UK. This, perhaps, has a lot to do with the fact that garages here can charge astronomical rates for labour relative to other countries. As such, it's 'cheaper' to change cars then to keep-up with the servicing. (Plenty of stories of folk in the south nipping over the channel to have their new cars serviced - as it's cheaper). We also run an '05 Polo and VW wanted £185 for a first lubicration service. Sorry, going off the point here.
Thanks, as ever, to everyone for your polite and helpful replies. Loads to think about here.
Deb
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I'd second what TurboD recommends: get a Skoda Felicia, funnily enough I did 450 miles in one yesterday going from Surrey to Leeds with my brother in a borrowed 1.3 model to pick up a Discovery. The Felicia only had 27,000 miles on the clock and cruised comfortably at 75MPH and to my surprise I ended up liking the vehicle. It's a very practical hatch back . Most people wouldn't touch them with a bargepole because of badge snobbery but if you could live with the badge you could do very well. Even the higher spec 1.6 versions go for very little money.
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It depends what size of car your are looking for and if petrol or diesel.
A lot of the diesel suggestions already made are good ideas - 306 etc.
If you want petrol I would recommend a Nissan Almera or Primera from 1993 to 1999 which have excellent engines (no cambelt to worry about) and run for ever. This is the original Almera introduced around 1995 up to 2000 when the shape changed and was less appealing or good value. Same for the Primera, introduced 1990 I think up to 2000 about Y reg before the current shape are good reliable cars capable of high mileage. Pick up a good early one for bargain motoring. Best Primera is the 2.0 model.
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An Almera ... yes, these first modles were largely unloved when they were around. Certainly worth a thought. Need to find a one-owner example which has been polished by its elderly owner every Sunday before gently being rolled back into its centrally-heated garage!? Will keep looking!
Thanks!
D
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RE THE SUGGESTION FOR A KA .....
Is there much difference between the 'new' post '02 ka and the original. I know one has slightly higher HP but didn't know whether this made the two materially different in terms of DIY servicing?
Thanks ... discussion has been useful!
D
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