For a start it's diesel.
Years ago before Vauxhall used it, Monza Garage raced a 2.4JTD Alfa 156 Sport Wagon which with the equivalence factor & relatively mild tuning trounced the saloon class it raced in. VW also rally a very successful Diesel. Yup equivalence factor is some of it (a diesel is 1.4 times the capacity of it's petrol) but some of it is down to the different power delivery & if not having to meet the strict emission laws. Diesels in power boat racing are also hugely successful & have been for ages.
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Modern Diesel...........Most of the qualities of an old fashioned V8 Petrol...All that lovely torque without the fuel consumption problem...No V8 'rumble' though.
MD
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>>And so it is with diseasel power. Just buy a petrol engined vehicle instead for true performance.
OK your persuasive powers have convinced me, all we now need to do is tell Audi not to bother with a diseasel for Le Mans ...
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Diesel, like lovely Bitter. Smooth powerful and tasty.
Petrol, like Lager.............No taste, no power and makes you fight back co's it is inadequate!
Bitter, relaxed and laid back. A Gentelman's carriage.
Lager, unrefined, crass and makes folk over revvy. Totally unnecessary.
MD
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Bitter? I prefer real ale, that's a man's drink. Bitter is drunk up north isn't it? I visited a Yate's wine lodge many years ago, it was the first time for many years that I'd been assaulted by a woman, what is it with Mancunians? I'll warrant that she was a bitter drinker as well. Well she was clearly bitter about something.
Diseases are OK for trundling around in mimser mode, perhaps going to the shops, or even to Aunt Betty's. But for the real driving experience, one needs petrol, preferably being consumed in prodigous quantities by a V8 of some variety. Or perhaps a howling V6. Or even a snorting x-flow. But diseasel? Bllleeeuurrgghhh.
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I visited a Yate's wine lodge many years ago, it was the first time for many years that I'd been assaulted by a woman, what is it with Mancunians? I'll warrant that she was a bitter drinker as well. Well she was clearly bitter about something. >>
They're not called Fight Clubs for nothing you know!
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">.... bother with a diseasel for Le Mans <"
You could always try reading the regs that the Audi raced under at Le Mans. The victory was a fix. It was, in fact, two races, one for the diseased cars and one for proper racing vehicles. If cubic capacity is the only restriction, then petrol always wins. With a four stroke this merely requires an increase in the revs, or boost, or both. But for a real power/weight advantage, a two stroke is the answer. Lots of gears and driver/rider skill needed though. And fuel stops, don't forget the fuel stops.
The diseased Audi doesn't even sound like a race car. The Bentley boys will be turning in their graves.
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"> For a start it's diesel.<" ??? That's odd, that's wot I typed. It must be HJ's filter thingy.
">trounced the saloon class it raced in. <"
Really? Which saloon class was that then? The let's-make-lots-of-black-smoke-and-mutter-about-torque class? Or perhaps the I-don't-like-racing-very-quickly-so-I've-got-a-disease competition? Or even the isn't-it-great-that-the-organisers-have-handicapped-the-petrol-cars-to
-give-us-a-chance
championship?
Diseasels are used in power boats to try and reduce the risk of fire and to increase range. Nothing to do with power.
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>> ">trounced the saloon class it raced in. <" Really? Which saloon class was that then? The let's-make-lots-of-black-smoke-and-mutter-about-torque class? Or perhaps the I-don't-like-racing-very-quickly-so-I've-got-a-disease competition? Or even the isn't-it-great-that-the-organisers-have-handicapped-the-petrol-cars-to -give-us-a-chance championship?
not going to join the diesel v petrol debate.........got both in the family and both have their uses
the Alfa 2.4D estate was watched by me at Castle Combe in a saloon car race which had all different kinds of Alfa saloons and it went like the clappers......came 2nd, but was a close run thing.........commentator stated it regularly won races...........good entertainment
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forgot to say it was the only diesel, the rest were petrol
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So it finished second then. Behind a petrol car with a smaller engine. QED.
I thank you ;-)
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Micky
Just remind us all, what the winning Audi at the LeMans 24 hour race was powered by.
A clue ,the word begins with D !
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Mr Tee, just remind us all, are turbo diseasel LMPs permitted to have bigger engines than turbo petrol LMPs?
A clue: the word "yes" appears in the answer. I'll let you find out just how much bigger the diseased engines can be ;-)
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Well yes they did have a concession as allowed by the rulemakers.The rules were drawn up to equalise the differing characteristics of petrol and diesel.
The diesel won because maybe they underestimated what the car was capable of, but it still won against expectations.
I also seem to remember the comparison race on Fifth Gear with a Mini Cooper up against a Skoda Fabia VRS and the Skoda won.
Now I hear you protesting that the Skoda has a 1.9 engine as opposed to a 1.6 in the Mini.So what !
If we had a road race over a distance of many miles ,I suspect that even if the petrol Mini had a 1.9 engine,it,s need to refuel more often would still mean it lost.
Some people just hate diesel and I would guess that a great many of those people have not even driven a modern diesel but like to align themselves with views
of certain " expert " celebrities.
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Whats all this Waffle got to do with Remapping an ECU.?????????
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So, Mr Tee, just how much bigger was the diseased engine in the Hunmobile?
A concession? It was two different races, one for cars with big engines and one for cars with small engines.
I don't "hate" diseseils, I've had several, but I feel it is important to discredit the assumption that vehicle fitted a compression-ignition engine can be considered as a performance alternative to a proper car. Diseal has it's place, but anyone who thinks that deseil offers a true performance alternative is living in ga-ga land.
Neither the MINI or Skoda are at the cutting edge of performance, so the comparison is irrelevant.
What are celebrities?
For an insight into true performance, you might care to peruse the latest issue of Classicford, Pat Doran's RS200 still lives! A mere 800bhp from 2.1 litres, a real testament to petrol power. It's probably where Group B would be now.
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Thanks for the link, it's still as clear as mud. Are these celebritities important? Is my humble existence on this planet improved by clebebritys? I think I should be told.
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Ah,on this we have something in common, in my opinion too many people think that "celebs" are important and know everything and are therefore to be followed regardless.
I would not suggest that the people who frequent this forum are included, but there people who hang on every word spoken by the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and Stiff Needles.
You sound like the sort of fellow that would ignore the anti diesel rubbish, spouted by these two and make up your own mind.
As to your suggestion that a diesel performance car is not possible,then I think you need to do a bit more research.
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In Practical Performance Car Magazine, the bloke who recently won a Westfield in their competition is going to fit a VAG Tdi engine in it. He won because owing to the tuning potential of modern diesels, the PPC team were intrigued at how a diesel Westfield will turn out.
Whether he just has it remapped or goes further with modifying it remains to be seen (probably the latter). Will probably be donkeys years before the car is finished, but hopefully there will be some interesting comparison tests with petrol Westfields in the future...
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