I cannot agree with Espada concerning putting an auto transmission into neutral at traffic lights.
Neither can I, the whole point of an auto is you don't touch the gear selector unless you're parking, or going backwards. Pull the handbrake on if you must, but most drivers of manual cars seem to sit with their foot on the brake at traffic lights as well, and I've never found brake-lights to be dazzling, even though most of my driving is at night (maybe I'm too young for the cataracts to have started forming...)
However on most autos putting it into neutral means moving the selection lever through reverse
No, neutral is between Reverse and Drive on every auto I've ever driven. It's only putting it in Park that'll flash the reverse lights.....and that shouldn't be done unless you're parking. Autoboxes were meant to be idiot-proof, but it obviously hasn't worked - if you're parking select P, if you're reversing select R, if you're driving select D. If you're going down a hill and can smell your brake pads burning, select 2 or even 1. Simple.
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umistim: what auto do you drive? All the ones I've driven run P-R-N-D-3-2-1. Swapping between D and N is simply a matter of nudging the stick forwards, whereas to get it into P or R you have to push a switch.
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While auto-boxes are idiotproof they also make for exciting driving if you have a tiptronic 5sp box as I do. So messing around by dropping from D to N is hardly a great effort and saves my bulbs and the eyes of the driver behind me.
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saves my bulbs and the eyes of thedriver behind me.
Bunkum.
If the drivers eyes are so affected by brakelights, they shouldn't be driving.
MTC
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for advanced drivers it's considered good practice to put the handbrake on ........another advantage is, at night, consideration of the driver behind as you don't leave the brighter lights on if you release your foot from the brake pedal.
if your handbrake is working properly you shouldn't need to change to neutral either
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if your handbrake is working properly you shouldn't need to change to neutral either
As my gearbox drops itself into neutral if the footbrake is applied for more than 2 seconds there is no need to either change to neutral or apply the handbrake. Tough if those behind me get upset with my brakelights - they shouldn't be looking directly into them in the first place. Perhaps these same people look directly into the sun and also complain it's too bright as well !
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DD - Does the same thinking apply to drivers behind with main beam on? If you don't look at your mirrors you won't be blinded.
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DD - Does the same thinking apply to drivers behind with main beam on? If you don't look at your mirrors you won't be blinded.
Given that the mirrors are set to be in contact with your eyes you have little choice but to be dazzled by main beam headlights from behind, but at least with brakelights on in front of you, you can avert your eyes away from them by simply not looking directly at them.
if brake lights are that much of a problem, how do people cope when someone in front brakes and takes a few seconds to come to a stop? Do they run into the back of the car, or swerve into oncoming traffic because they have been blinded by the car in front? If those few seconds haven't blinded you, what difference does a few more seconds make when the car in front of you is stationary?
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Perhaps it's less of a problem when the car in front is braking because we are occupied with slowing down ourselves?
Sitting at a set of traffic lights, waiting for the car in front to start moving however requires very little concentration by comparison, so it's more of a problem to those with more sensitive retinas.
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Until now I had been working on the firm belief that Backroomers represented that small proportion of folk known as......intelligent and considerate to others. I am totally shocked and may never return here. What a bunch of selfish bunch of I'm alright Jacks.
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A small point about autos vis-a-vis the in neutral when stationary debate -
many (newer) autos won't let you shift from neutral-drive without applying the footbrake
so you end up 'flashing ' the driver behind when you move off If you go neutral-handbrake when stopped,
rather than maintaining footbrake-drive & giving a constant brake light.
What's best/worst? I prefer to get the 'signal' from the driver in front - when his/her brake lights
go off, I prepare to move also - all the time observing of course!
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Until now I had been working on the firm belief that Backroomers represented that small proportion of folk known as......intelligent and considerate to others. I am totally shocked and may never return here. What a bunch of selfish bunch of I'm alright Jacks.
Quite agree can't believe how pig ignorant some people are, the record is 20 minutes on the M25 stationary stuck behind someone with their foot on the brake! Too much effort for some obviously!
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If the drivers eyes are so affected by brakelights, they shouldn't be driving.
Maybe the fact that you aren't affected means that you haven't got very effective eyesight. Perhaps you should get an eyetest.
I raised a thread recently about the discomfort caused to me by a Mercedes S-class with LED brake lights. The driver was using the brake pedal as a foot rest in traffic. I'm not sure how many watts of light those things put out but it definitely seemed like having a main beam shone in the eyes. I await the sarcastic comments to follow but would repeat my point above.
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I tend to stick the handbrake on if I know I'm going to be waiting, although I can't say I've ever been dazzled by brake lights.
However, to HannahnTilly, being dazzled by medium/bright light is usually an early symptom of cataracts, so it might be worth getting an eye check as you pointed out to the others. ;-)
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To everyone who says "people shouldn't be bothered by high-level brake lights, so I won't bother," why are you not prepared to accept that someone else might have a different opinion from you? What will it cost you to adhere to what you were taught when you learned to drive?
I suspect it's just a symptom of the rudeness that pervades so much of modern life.
V
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For the people who don't think it is wrong to keep their foot on the brake - It may make sense to you, since you are not bothered about it. However there seems to be a lot of people (myself included) that finds the kind of behavour disccused as inconsiderate. Therefore I think we can conclude that it is inconsiderate behavour, even if the person behaving that the way disccused has no stong feelings about it.
I have to say I only keep my foot on the brake if I think I will be moving in the next 5 seconds or if I want to annoy the person behind me.
Now shall we get back on topic? A debate about handbrakes is not what the OP was after.
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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If I want to annoy the person behind me I wash my windscreen, let them take a blast from the screen and headlampp jets, wait for them to switch their wipers off, and then wash it again. :-)
Only do it when I'm been tailgated, which, to be fair, is pretty rare nowadays. ;-)
Blue
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I tend to stick the handbrake on if I know I'm going to be waiting, although I can't say I've ever been dazzled by brake lights. However, to HannahnTilly, being dazzled by medium/bright light is usually an early symptom of cataracts, so it might be worth getting an eye check as you pointed out to the others. ;-)
Yup just had mine checked last week, very throughly because Cataracts & Glaucoma are family traits!
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I hope that the people who post 'brake lights are inconsiderate if lft on' etc etc never travel to America on holiday as they will find entire rows of traffic with the brakelights on as EVERY SINGLE DRIVER waits at the lights for the signal to change, with their foot on the brake.
Get over it people, its such a non-issue that I'm honestly gobsmacked that so many people would get their knickers in a twist over it.
MTC
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I hope that the people who post 'brake lights are inconsiderate if left on' etc etc never travel to America
>>...as they will find entire rows of traffic with the brakelights on as EVERY SINGLE DRIVER waits at the lights for the signal to change, with their foot on the brake.
And there is also the need to identify the red turn indicators mixed in with the brake lights.
There are thousands of new cars in my area with LED lights and they generally do not bother me but on one occasion I was certainly forced to shield by eyes from IIRC a MB.
It may have just been the angle I was viewing from.
No twisted knickers here but I do accept that some peoples eyes are affected.
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what on earth is wrong with being polite and reasonable towards your fellow human beings.....and if taking your size 9's off the left hand pedal of an auto means you're being considerate....WHY NOT DO IT.
it's the same as turning your headlamps down to side lights when you're parked at the side of the road or in a car park........or turning main beam down to dipped when you see a walker coming towards you ..... etc, etc
some people don't even think or know to do it ....and some do know but can't be bothered, because they're too selfish
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what on earth is wrong with being polite and reasonable towards your fellow human beings.....and if taking your size 9's off the left hand pedal of an auto means you're being considerate....WHY NOT DO IT.
perhaps because I think that it is completely pointless and unnecessary !
Until I read the people getting their knickers in a twist on here, I didn't even realise that it was a problem (to some people)
MTC
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I can't quite believe what I have started and neither can I believe people's reaction to what I and several others consider to be polite useage of the brake pedal. Modern brake lights with high intensity LEDs or even just high positioned lights are a pain and I try not to cause offence to others if I would take offence myself.
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In 23 years of driving I have not had brake lights cause me any offence once.
Perhaps I should join the growing army of people who go out of their way to be offended by others.
MTC
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In my Honda Auto's handbook, it says to select "neutral" if stationary for periods of 30secs or longer. when i do select "n" there is a slight but distinct change in the engine note, so there is definitely some force being unloaded somewhere from the drive, which may cause unneccasary wear if prolonged by holding on the brake whilst still in drive?
The car also doesn't "creep" when either cold or warm on level ground, whilst idleing in "D".
billy
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Getting back to the thread a little, I think the O.P needs to run himself in when it comes to automatics(not casting any dispersions on your driving, just noting you are moving from manual to auto). Driving that can be considered most inconsiderate both mechanically and socially can happen when someone goes from a manual to an automatic.
On my first journey in an automatic I tried to dip the clutch, que me making an ass out of myself by performing an emergency stop. luckly noone was behind me or that would have been a horrendus peice of inconsiderate driving!
One frequent problem that people face is forgetting which pedal in an auto does what and there are stories of people hitting the acelerator when they wanted to brake.
Not being familiar using an auto and the subsequent abuse of the car and other people on the road are prehapps biger problems than auto drivers not using handbrake/footbrake correctly, plus a lot of manual drivers use the footbrake as a foot rest in my experience.
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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Getting back to the thread a little,
I agreeI think the O.P needs to run himself in when it comes to automatics... On my first journey in an automatic I tried to dip the clutch....
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My daughters first comment when driving an auto was " it doesn't stop!"
Obviously not quite true but what she was trying to say - There is little or no engine braking when you just leave it in D.
So just be aware of this and expect to use the brakes an awful lot more than a manual.
If you do need engine braking for comfort or safety ( like decending steep hills) then its out of drive and select a lower gear.
Obviously, in the future you may need pad replacements more frequently than a manual.
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Hi Folks
Many thanks for all your comments,little did I know of the amount of controversy that my request for information would cause.
I too get annoyed to sit behind an inconsiderate driver with their foot anchored to the brake pedal during a holdup in traffic.
I've been driving my Note for two days now and i am absolutely delighted with the vehicle and the automatic transmission. I soon found out that I use the brake pedal more than I used to on my manual X-Trail,however when I need to slow down I slip into second gear and then into neutral if I need to stop and use the hand brake.
I am wearing a large Moon Boot and fortunately there is plenty of room to keep my foot away from the controls and I think I've taken to driving an Automatic like a duck to water.
Once again many thanks for all your comments.
Hoseman
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>Isoon found out that I use the brake pedal more than I used to on my manual X-Trail,however when I need to slow down I slip into second gear and then into neutral if I need to stop and use the hand brake.
Hoseman, you will find that you use the brakes a lot more because you've lost nearly all of your engine braking - but on the plus side, you can l;et your momentum take you when you are coasting down to (say) traffic lights.
Regarding the use of your engine/gearbox for braking. Over in Americaland (where nearly everything is automatic) they subscribe to the theory that brakes are for slowing you down and gears / engines are for making yo go faster. Brake pads/discs are cheap whereas engines/gearboxes are expensive - I'm not saying that one way is definitely right and one way is definitely wrong -- but i wouldn't use my engine/gearbox for braking in an automatic, unless there was something wrong with the brakes.
But each to their own.
Enjoy the autobox - I'll wager you a virtual 1p taht you don't go back to a manual again.
MTC
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Hi Murphy
You are dead right, I don't think that I'll be driving another manual change car again.
I take your point about using the gearbox instead of the brakes as the cost of replacement parts for the brakes will be a lot cheaper than transmission parts.
I'll revert to using the brakes and the hand brake when stationery
Cheers Hoseman
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