I am thinking about replacing the Passat sometime this year and am considering trying to source a three or four year old Mazda6 with a diesel engine. I've more or less eliminated my other choices - Avensis D4D (slower, more expensive and won't drive as well as the Mazda) and Accord CDTi (not that good for fuel economy, more cramped interior than I expected, pricey again). I like the looks of the 6 and it ticks most of my boxes in terms of ride, handling, size, affordability and practicality. Plus from a variety of surveys Mazda usually seem to do well in terms of reliability, something which is particularly important to me.
But, having read through the CBCB, the following gives me pause for thought:
"Enough reports of premature clutch and clutch/flywheel failure to state that the model seems to suffer a much higher rate of this than would be normal. One reader also suffered 5th gear failure on a diesel at 34 months old. One reader had ... brake discs re-skimmed (23,000 miles: again seems to be a common problem). ... On the 136PS 5-speed diesel, labouring of the engine in 5th (and towing) can lead to a short 5th gear life as the selector pins wear. Not a problem on later 6-speed box. "
I don't fancy paying for clutch or gear repairs and can't afford the newer 6-speed version. Do the clutch problems affect all versions of the 6? Any specific symptoms to watch out for when test-driving that will tell me whether the clutch is dodgy? Also, does anyone in the know have an idea of how common the 5th gear problems are, and whether I should avoid the 136 bhp version in favour of the 121 bhp? I would ideally prefer the 136 bhp engine to the 121 bhp - I do a lot of driving on B-roads and need to be able to pass the 45 mph brigade safely, but the bits of straight road aren't as long as I'd like. I know I could get the 121 bhp engine chipped, but my insurance would probably jump.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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Good job you do most of your driving on B-roads; I have found the Mazda 6 rental's I've had very noisy and tiresome motorway animals with short gearing. The short gearing could work in your favour on B-road overtakes though, and they handle very well to liven up your day. They have a nicely proportioned body shape, but I find the inside trim too "shiny plastic". A number of friends have run Mazdas over the years, including the 6, and none have had reliablity issues or the issues listed in your post; in fact, like the reports tend to say, they rave about the reliability of their cars.
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>>>>>they rave about the reliability of their cars>>>>
I bet the reliable cars were all petrol models that have the superbly reliable Mazda designed engines, - unfortunately I believe all the Mazda diesels are sourced from Ford, and as such are nowhere near as reliable with their rubbish Delphi fuel injection pump problems.
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My indy garage man changes almost as many Mazda wheel-bearings as he does Focus. Not surprising given the common parts-bin.
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>>>>>they rave about the reliability of their cars>>>> I bet the reliable cars were all petrol models that have the superbly reliable Mazda designed engines, - unfortunately I believe all the Mazda diesels are sourced from Ford, and as such are nowhere near as reliable with their rubbish Delphi fuel injection pump problems.
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Correct.Our local Mazda dealership mechanic said the only significant problem affecting any mazda 6 were the early diesel versions. Which had some heads developing oil leaks.All other faults have been few,affecting some cars;
stodgy clutch(possible corrosion,usually affected little driven cars)
sticking throttle body(affected some new cars-fixed under warranty)
noisy rear hatchback supports(All should have been replaced under warranty)
a few have had the aluminium powersteering supply pipe chafe through when rubber mounting inside the clips holding it in place have come out.
My mazda6 (2.0 petrol hatchback) has been reliable.Has fantastic handling with a firm but not overly firm ride for me.Good economy( 38 mpg average so far-38000 miles).Servicing is incredibly cheap in comparison with other makes.-Minor service £100,Major £160.
My only criticism is engine noise on acceleration and tyre noise, when the tyres get over 15000 miles on them although they last well-35000 on first set of bridgestones.Now running michelin HP which seem quieter.
As I got the car new at a very good price,I would consider it one of the best value for money cars on the road,and I would definately get another.The wife is replacing her polo with a new mazda3.
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ps. forgot to say that I have had no problems re. gearbox and the brakes are superb.Maybe as you say affects diesel.
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bet the reliable cars were all petrol models that have the superbly reliable Mazda designed engines
Indeed.
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>>>>>they rave about the reliability of their cars>>>> unfortunately I believe all the Mazda diesels are sourced from Ford, and as such are nowhere near as reliable with their rubbish Delphi fuel injection pump problems.
You believe wrong. Mazda make their own diesel engines, and use Denso common rail injection systems.
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There's been at least a couple of threads on here regarding fuel pump problems on the Mazda 6 diesel;
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=37331
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=39786
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andymc
I really like the Mazda 6 diesel; which is just as well, as I've a customer with a fleet of them. The fleet manager recently asked me to research the engine problems for a upcoming complaint to Mazda, as it's becoming obvious that they're all going to fail in one way or another before they reach 3 years. As he said; it can't just be his fleet that's having all these problems.
Despite religious observance of the service requirements, HP pump failures are endemic. There have also been, probably big-end bearing, failures that cause one piston to come proud of the block face and smite the head mightily. They get sold "as is" on e-bay for pennies; even a secondhand engine for these is £5000 - and the scrappies know what they're worth. An outright complete new unit [fitted with everything] from Mazda is only £6000; but the cars are just not worth it.
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Oh well, looks like it's back to plan B - look for one of the last decent Merc diesels and run it into the ground ... Seeing as this means a nine or ten year old car, I don't hold out much hope of finding one easily as they'll all be starship mileage by now (after all, who buys a Merc to do 12000 miles a year, so the genuine ones have probably clocked up at least 150k miles by now). Thanks for the advice guys, guess I'll have to wait until the later 6s become affordable.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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andy
Just get a nice, low-mileage, petrol one for half a diesel's money. Unless you're doing stellar mileages; overall, there's nothing in it cost-wise.
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I guess I do a higher than average number of miles a year, between 25-30k, and while I've tried to divide that between our two cars, it mounts up anyway! More importantly (to me), I want to continue using biodiesel, even if only as a percentage of the fuel in the tank (seeing as the common-rail fuel pumps tend not to cope with pure bio). To be honest I hate petrol - I find the smell at the pump unpleasant and the exhaust fumes pretty hard to tolerate. Biodiesel fumes are much easier to cope with. However I also prefer the way a diesel car drives, all the power low down in the rev range.
I do appreciate the suggestion though!
I remember a thread posted not so long ago which speculated whether common-rail diesel values would start to plummet. I'm starting to wonder the same myself, as I'm finding it hard to find a relatively recent (say under 5 years) diesel-engined car that doesn't come with a range of potential niggles. As someone who much prefers diesels I find this frustrating. Is there any hope for me?!
Starting to wonder about a Volvo S80 with the older 2.5 diesel engine - was that a VW-supplied unit as fitted to Audis and VWs of the time (pre-2001)? HJ's write-up in the CBCB seems pretty positive, but the phrase "Lots of build quality niggles" would put me off a bit as well. Will try to do a bit of digging.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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andy
Hmm... see your point. What about a Ford TDDi with a Bosch VP44? Forget any common-rail if you want to use any proportion of biodiesel. You'd be doing the R&D yourself - at your huge risk!
Volvo have used VW diesels for a long time [even the old ex-LT in-line six-pot ones still fetch good money] but I don't think the S80 does - at least one of them is a CR. They've always had "kit-car" build quality - and horrendous parts prices!
An A6 2.5 TDi? VP44 again and not a brilliant engine either; but...
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As far as R&D goes, I've been using pure biodiesel in every car I've owned for the past six years - the Leon TDi 110 I got from new in 2001 and the Passat with the same engine which had about 90k miles on the clock when I got it in 2003 and is on 150k now, plus a couple of other cars I didn't hang onto (including a common rail Renault Clio dci I had for 12k miles). In total I've covered about 150000 miles on bio and it has never caused me any problems whatsoever, so I reckon my risk is low enough so long as I go about it the right way. If I did have a Mazda6 I probably wouldn't use more than 20% biodiesel, for example. I know the importance of getting properly made fuel, but my supplier is a good one so I don't have any worries there. If the manufacturers still designed common rail engines with biodiesel in mind, I'd be laughing ...
I think that the 2.5 TDi engine you mention in the A6 was also used in the Volvo S80 initially, until it was replaced with Volvo's own D5 which AFAIR was a 2.4 litre rather than a 2.5. Can anyone confirm that?
If that's right, I think that means I'd be looking for pre-2001 S80s which should also be fine on pure biodiesel. While 140 bhp isn't a huge amount from that size of engine by todays standards, I reckon that going from a 110 bhp car to one of similar size/weight but with 30 bhp extra could be enough of an upgrade for me. Only thing is the fuel economy would probably be a fair bit worse, but the fact that it isn't common rail and would therefore run on slightly cheaper fuel could outweigh that.
I checked out HJ's recommended link for Volvo cars but it seems to be US-based and therefore nothing about diesels. Must google for a UK-based site ...
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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I remember a thread posted not so long ago which speculated whether common-rail diesel values would start to plummet. I'm starting to wonder the same myself, as I'm finding it hard to find a relatively recent (say under 5 years) diesel-engined car that doesn't come with a range of potential niggles.
I think you will be proved right. It seems to me that yes, modern diesel engines themselves will last for many miles, but the ancillary items such as turbos, diesel pumps and of course dual mass flywheels are not really capable of operating reliably much beyond 130000 + miles. Each of these items are enourmously expensive to sort out when they fail. I think anyone taking on a 150k+ mile big diesel (from whatever manufacturer) is a brave man or woman indeed. I would take the petrol version every time, if we are talking about a used car of say 5 years/90000 miles old. Let's face it the bigger petrol engined (around 3 to 4 litres) cars are not exactly daft on fuel anymore. Also given the amount of torque these big diesels now produce, one has to wonder how long the transmission components will last - think BMW 535d, Audi 4.0 TDI etc; quite a scary prospect at big miles if you ask me.
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Andymc, I know it can be annoying when you have cars A, B and C on your shortlist and someone comes up with car X, bu as you've spread the net a bit yourself, can I suggest you think about the Skoda Superb: this can be had with the excellent 2.5 TDI engine as in the A4 and A6. It's only a saloon though: if you need 5 doors there is the Octavia which is a good alternative to the aforementioned Mazda 6, but which doesn't have the 2.5 option.
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Thanks Avant, I don't mind suggestions at all, especially if it's something I hadn't thought of or had dismissed for the wrong reasons. Do you know if that 2.5 TDi is a PD or not? I had assumed it must be by now, but I might amaze the world and be wrong for once. ;-) I had the impression that the Superb is a bit of a wallowy barge, something I'm trying to get away from - I like cars to have good tight roadholding and handling capabilities. I don't mean handling in the powerslide sense, more in the stick to the road like glue and have as little bodyroll as possible. Seems like the Mazda and the S80 might fit that criteria, but if the Superb isn't how I thought it was, and doesn't share the same troublesome suspension as the Passat, and can cope with biodiesel, it could make my shortlist after all ...
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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The 2.5 TDI is old school and therefore tried, trusted and reliable. The Superb is built for comfort and wont give you much in terms of driving enjoyment. Still has a lot going for it though.
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