My mother wants to sell two motors
1. 95' Golf 1.9 diesel (not turbo)
2. 96' Daihatsu Fourtrak 2.8tdi swb commercial
and buy one motor to do both jobs ie
carry 5 or 6 people
tow 3.5 tonne farm trailer occasionally
Reliability and Running Costs are the most important factors
My initial thoughts are
Dahatsu Fourtrak car
Landrover 90 Station Wagen
my mother fancies a jeep 2.5td but it may struggle to tow 3-3.5 tonnes.
any other ideas????
Alternatively - could she install windows and additional seats into the Commercial Fourtak - would she have to repay the VAT?
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Consider the Toyota RAV4, it's well put together and an awsome 4x4. Not sure about the occaisional towing of a farm trailer? on private land or public roads?
Eleanor
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RAV4 will not cut the mustard with a 3.5t trailer.
what
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Read my response, that's what I said.
Eleanor
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Eleanor: Could you expand on your comment that the Rav is an awsome 4x4. Do you mean it looks good or are you suggesting that it is useable off road?
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The RAV4 is usable offroad, however it depends on your offroad, If the buyer wants a compromise between the 2 current vehicles and also wants economy then the Land Rover/Land Cruisers suggested are inappropriate.
Eleanor
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Towing with 4x4s has been well-covered quite recently, I thought, but since a 3.5t farm trailer has been mentioned, your mother will need to be aware that some combinations of 3.5t trailer and towing vehicle will be covered by tachograph regulations. If used in some agricultural areas, this will be checked by traffic police who periodically target the farming community for various prospective offences.
Sensibly, there are very few 4x4s with which I would wish to tow a 3.5t trailer--Land-Rover, Land Cruiser, Range Rover, Nissan Patrol and that is about it.
David
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Thank Mark (Brazil) for this site info. Suggests only the Land Cruiser, Defender, Discovery and RR fit the bill.
4wdworld.com.au/tipstricks/weights_4wd.htm
David
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And of those - only 1 "engage brain" choice.
The Toyota LandCruiser is STREETS ahead.
Positions in J D Power user satisfaction survey
Toyota LandCruiser - 20
Land Rover Discovery - 136
Range Rover - 164
(Land Rover Freelander - 167)
out of 182!!
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I've got a Jeep 3.1TD which tows the caravan easily (officially no more than 1.5 tonnes) and would handle much more, but I wouldn't fancy trying it with 3.5 ton(nes) on behind. Also, a bit cramped for 5/6 people.
You're really looking at something much bigger - eg Toyota Landcruiser
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I wouldn't be too keen on towing a 3.5 ton trailer behind a short wheelbase Land Rover 90 (or a Fourtrak). This can be a very unstable combination, as a farming friend of mine found out a while back. His Landie ended up on its roof. A long wheelbase Land Rover 110 is far more stable, and with the 300TDi engine and later spec gearbox it should cope fine with this sort of work. More space inside for people as well. Land Cruiser with the 4.2 diesel is probably just about the ultimate tow car, but you mght find it a bit too big for everyday use.
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"I wouldn't be too keen on towing a 3.5 ton trailer behind a short wheelbase Land Rover 90 (or a Fourtrak). This can be a very unstable combination"
Idea:
We get DW to lends us two SWB landies. I get my Brother & Sisters horseboxes filled with 3.5 tons of Silage bags.
We all get tanked up[1], then find a deserted patch of land and thrash them around a grass oval until both landies and boxes are totally lunched.
It'll test the above theory, and will be a great way to spend a bank holiday weekend!
I can't see a single drawback!
[1] HJ can bring the beers.
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I fully respect Richard's comments but haven't ever found a stability problem with SWB Land Rovers, only with poorly loaded trailers, trailers with duff brakes, trailers with daft tyre mixes at a variety of pressures down to 12psi etc etc.
I would maintain a decent LR90/Defender SWB will be fine to take on a monster trailer.
Doesn't fit the requirement obviously.
Wouldn't throw out the Discovery as a possible. I look after two TDIs from the early/mid 1990s and they are proving solid, rewarding and reliable so far.
David
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You mention reliability , go for the Toyota Landcruiser , chap i work with has had one for years as a family car! only problem the alloys are pitted , still looks great.
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Surely the Rav 4 is way under spec max trailer weight 1500kgs reading the original question, maybe they make em stronger up your way ;-(
Only vehicles listed as 3500 kgs capable are according to my book which is an Aussie publication seemingly.
Daewoo Musso 3.2
Nissan Patrol GU 4.2 D TD Manual
Rover Defender
Rover Discovery
Rover Range Rover
Toyota Landcruiser 80 Series
Toyota Landcruiser 100 Series
Only the Rover products are rated >3500 kgs.
So Landbruiser it is then.
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Thanks for all the replies - As a landcruiser is out of budget I think that a smaller trailer and more frequent trips is the answer.
BTW how is the towing capacity calculated - The respondents were right, towing a heavy trailer with the Fourtrak is a bit hairy at times.
Converting the commercial is still an option.
Does anyone know the costs involved i.e repay VAT on the original purchase price or on current value??
Why are 90 Landrovers always sold incl. VAT (ie a business cannot reclaim the VAT) and 110 Landrovers always sold +VAT?? .
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Vat payable on the negotiated current value of the vehicle. Be sure to inform the vehicle's insurance company of exactly what is being done to the vehicle or risk having insurance voided in the event of a claim.
Standard 90 Land-Rover is a car so no VAT reclaimable unless you are a hire or lease company. The 110 Land-Rover is dual purpose so VAT might be reclaimable on a station wagon if it is used for certain commercial purposes such as a crewbus. Pickups and hardtops will be treated as VAT reclaimable but the crewcab 120 pickup might have to be argued on the same basis as the station wagon.
Anyone who is contemplating taking their 12 seat Land-Rover to France should, I think, still be aware they cannot legally drive it on a normal UK driving licence.
David
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Land Rover 90 County 7 seater station wagons are regarded as a car and VAT is not normally reclaimable. The hard top, canvas top and pick-up versions are treated as commercial vehicles and VAT can be reclaimed as these. The problem area is with hardtop 90s which have been fitted with side windows and rear seats, which they did not originally have. Strictly speaking these are cars and VAT is not recoverable on them, but I seem to remember there is a concession in place for vehicles converted beyond a certain age.
I have seen one or two 110 Station Wagons sold + VAT, but in most cases VAT is included in selling price (i.e. not recoverable). There doesn't seem to be any pattern to this.
David W wrote: "poorly loaded trailers, trailers with duff brakes, trailers with daft tyre mixes at a variety of pressures down to 12psi etc etc"
Which pretty much describes every farm trailer I have ever seen. I agree that a SWB Landie will cope fine with a decent trailer, correctly loaded, but there is less margin for error. I think the short wheelbase and lighter weight makes the combination more likely to weave. I used to regularly tow a very unruly ex BT single axle trailer, loaded to around 2 tons, behind a SWB, and even when the load was perfectly balanced, you could still feel it trying to push the back end of the Landie around at anything above 30 mph. When I bought a 110, towing the same trailer you couldn't even tell it was there.
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