From "Automotive News":
...........East European suppliers win big with C class : Top seller will get more parts from emerging markets.......
Mercedes-Benz is shifting a sizable portion of its sourcing for the next C class (......) to eastern Europe, joining other automakers in an industrywide search for high-quality parts at a lower price.
I'm an East-European myself, but can't understand one thing: why those Stuttgart execs can't cope with quality ? GM-Opel in Gliwice plant obviously can. Their Agila and Zafira have been awarded with some prizes for quality in 2006.
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Free enterprise is the basis of western economy.
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"...high-quality parts at a lower price"
That's the problem. No such thing as a free meal.
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Looks like Mercedes are looking to go onto Hyundais payroll by making their cars such poor quality they raise Hyundai's public image immeasurably!
Are they still doing that 30 year drivetrain warranty on Mercs? If so Im guessing they hope that the rest of the car will have fallen apart long before the 30 years comes about... in about 5 years presumably...
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I am sure Mercedes will sort the problems out. A great manufacturer by any measure, they've just temporarily lost their way.
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I am sure Mercedes will sort the problems out. A great manufacturer by any measure, they've just temporarily lost their way.
I've read various things about Mercedes quality going downhill, but a neighbour has a 2005 C270 CDi Avantgarde estate and to me anyway, the thing oozes quality. The standard of fit and finish, and the choice of trim materials inside is superb, as is the paintwork, and the fit of the panels.
It's a little noisier under acceleration than I would have expected, although not unpleasant sounding being a 5 pot. On the whole, it seems to be what you would (traditionally) expect from a Mercedes. A very durable feeling, well finished and comfortable car with a very soothing interior.
He's done 20k in it with no problems whatsoever, and it still looks and drives like new. Is he in for problems as the miles go on, or do these quality issues only affect some Mercs?
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I suspect a lot is to do with expectations. Mercs are expensive cars so if something goes wrong you are more likely to be annoyed about it.
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Mercs are expensive cars? Mine have been bought 2nd hand and they come at a comparable prce to Bmws, Audis, Saabs, Volvos etc. I have not noticed a huge difference in servicing costs to when I ran Fiat Pands for years.>> I suspect a lot is to do with expectations. Mercs areexpensive cars so if something goes wrong you are more likely to be annoyed about it.
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I've read various things about Mercedes quality going downhill, but a neighbour has a 2005 C270 CDi Avantgarde estate
I've got one of those (well a late 2004 one, anyway) and would echo everything you say. The car is just in a different league to Mondeo's & 406's I've had in the past.
You're neighbour must have got one of the last 5 pot 270's though - they've been replaced by a V6 3L engine (badged 320 on the C Class) as the older engine needed too much work to meet EU4 emissions regs. It's a much better engine, but the 270 beats it for economy.
MB dealers have been complaining that the more recent cars are so reliable they're not getting anything like the level of warranty work they used to get so the dealers workshop loadings are suffering!
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It is Mercedes knocking time again. Many firms (i.e) Marks and Spencer take their turn at the Brirish hobby of trying to rubbish established marks. All I can say is that my 2 Mercs have been absolutely fine and I don't consider myself a badge snob. Look around the world's cab companies, thousands of Mercs are used to starship mileages and are thrashed by cabbies day in and day out. Look on the sea front in Funchal or the ranks on the Greek islands and most of the cabs are Mercs.
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The fact is that the company has had problems, you only need to look at some of the surveys to see that - particularly with the A-Class. The unknown matter at the moment is whether these problems are sorted. If they have been then that's great. It will take a couple of years until we really know the answer.
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>It will take a couple of years until we really know the answer. <
And much longer to rebuild the reputation with those who have seen and heard of the horror stories that they or people they know have gone through with these cars.
It would be great if they have got to grips with it now though.
I love this anti-Mercedes bashing accusation - if you pay 15 grand plus for a car and it breaks, its rubbish, especially when you can pay half that for cars that dont. Its totally unacceptable, simple as that and there ARE well documented issues with several Mercedes models.
My small valeting company which had about 30 Mercs that are regularily cleaned has seen that slashed to less than 10, all replaced by either Jaguar or BMW.
I made a point of asking why this was the case and the unanimous answer was they were fed up with the cars going wrong and the even worse, customer service - you spend £50,000 you expect a little service.
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I think that in the last 2 years or so Mercedes have been getting better: if the motoring press are to be believed, there was a conscious decision to cut costs (don't blame accountants; blame dividend-hungry institutional shareholders) which was typically short-term (probably US-inspired), and has now been seen to be so.
For all its faults my 06 B200 CDI has so far (touch wood) been totally reliable over 9 months and nearly 17,000 miles; and the build quality is solid and rattle-free.
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"For all its faults my 06 B200 CDI has so far (touch wood) been totally reliable over 9 months and nearly 17,000 miles"
Would you have another B-Class or for that matter any other Mercedez though?
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"Would you have another B-Class or for that matter any other Mercedez though?"
No, I don't think so in either case - I won't go on about it again at length as I've done it before, but it's to do with excessive noise and unadjustable 700 rpm vibration-inducing idling speed - but the point is that I might accept this in a £10,000 car but not one costing over £20,000.
If I can't afford another Audi I'll be very tempted by an Octavia.
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If you buy a Mercedes these days, you are paying 60% for the car and 40% for the badge.
If you like the badge that much, buy one, but don't kid yourself about buying quality.
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The Mercedes and BMW 'premium' relates back to when most people were driving Ford Sierras.
Most cars are so good these days that the difference in quality is marginal, if at all. You also have to remember that consolidation of suppliers has meant that lots of the bits on your Merc are coming out of the same Bosch, Siemes, Lemfoerder etc factories that make the parts for a Vectra or VW.
I drove an newish Skoda Octavia at the weekend, straight after stepping out from a BMW - to be honest the difference is quality is not that great! Something like a Skoda superb makes a very viable alternative to a C-class or A6 and at a fraction of the price.
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I think the Skoda is actually beginning to surpass BMW for image - atleast with the Superb, you wont look like an estate agent and be hated by 80% of other drivers!
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..Skoda superb makes a very viable alternative to a C-class or A6 and at a fraction of the price.
Seconded, especially used. I had one (Elegance 1.9pdi tip, leather) and now regard my subsequent
Merc C270 as a step down in terms of overall quality & 'likeability', though Merc do have fantastic
diesel engines (excellent economy, torque & camchains) & smooth auto boxes. My Superb seemed better built
& specced than the 270 (and incidentally a 2003 A6 I owned too) & servicing was/is
reasonable. My experience on Merc. (had 2 cars from therm over 10 years) is that they're high on
showroom image & smarm factor, but when it comes to solving problems, a bit helpless.
My last Merc., definitely.
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I have a Skoda Superb with the 130 PS VAG diesel engine fitted. I bought it as a low mileage 2 year old to use as a towcar. It performs this duty exceptionally well whilst giving 50 mpg economy with "normally enthusiastic" driving when unhitched. The rear leg room is unmatched by most cars - although I have access to other vehicles, the Skoda is the one I take when transporting several people.
There have been operating problems with the Euro Cat IV (140 PS) versions, caused by blocked particulate filters under extended low load operation. VAG may not be the only ones having difficulties with Cat IV DPFs. The Cat III (130 PS) engined Superb has to be an absolute bargain if the first part of the (steep) depreciation curve is dodged. When it gets old, all the working bits are Passat B5 - no problem with pattern spares.
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"....When it gets old, all the working bits are Passat B5 - no problem with pattern spares...."
Let's hope the Skoda is better built. If it's anything like my B5 Passat, it'll need a constant supply of spare parts.
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I would steer well clear of any 140PS EuroIV VAG engines - I have heard some very very bad things about them!
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It seems that only the NS 140 PS engine installations (also Audi & VW) suffer from this problem - they use the old 8 valve head and have a differently designed DPF from the transverse applications such as the Golf/Octavia. VAG, although usually quite accomodating in Skoda guise, have reverted to their good old "it's not our problem, contact your dealer" getout.
Having had a B5 Passat, I would also agree with the comment concerning its build quality (dashboard rattles). The Superb is properly assembled.
659.
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"I would steer well clear of any 140PS EuroIV VAG engines"
You mean those current TDI diesels, mounted in Mitsubishi Grandis as well ?
Probably something to do with too much power thrown on their shoulders.
Aren't they just regular TDIs with 16V instead of older 8V (115 PS etc.) ?
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Free enterprise is the basis of western economy.
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Oh, and check this out:
www.motorauthority.com/news/videos/video-developme.../
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Free enterprise is the basis of western economy.
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