All right I'll start the inevitable thread.
Great show great topic, however:
Why didn't the give the handlebar tash guy a script and let *him* present the whole thing showing the trained experts doing all the work in detail.
They don't need the four amateurs or even Lee Hurst.
Still no matter how badly done a show on the restoration of a Tiger Moth is not so much a step in th eright dierction as a 4 hour motorway drive in th eright direction...
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Since I'm a vintage aeroplane enthusiast, I probably allowed this enthusiasm to cloud my judgement of the programme - but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
For anyone else who's interested, or perhaps think they could be, I can heartily recommend a visit to the Shuttleworth collection at Old Ward aerodrome, near Biggleswade, Bedfordshire.
Particularly recommended are the sunset flying displays, held during the finer weather, where aeroplanes such as the Gipsy Moth are flown very close to the public - there are ample opportunities for some good photography using only modest equipment. The display on May 18th looks very promising.
You'll find more details on:
www.shuttleworth.org
Ian
PS - They have an interesting car collection too, and they get them out and drive them round during the afternoon.
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Ian said...
>Particularly recommended are the sunset flying displays, held during the finer weather, where aeroplanes such as the Gipsy Moth are flown very close to the public - there are ample opportunities for some good photography using only modest equipment.
Ian is right, these sunset flying displays are the closest you'll ever get to flying (and static) vintage aircraft in a relaxed atmosphere. Excellent family venue.
>The display on May 18th looks very promising.
See you there??
David
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David
"see you there" - that would be a nice idea. SWMBO and I will be making a day of it (more or less). A stroll round the collection hangars in the afternoon, and a picnic tea.
Obviously weather dependant, but it normally turns out OK in the evening.
Ian
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David,
OK it's not motoring but as an enthusiast, I am sure you would have been saddenned to see the Mosquito crash; I think it was at Woodford.
Close-ish to home as my wife works at Raytheon Aircraft Services and the Mozzie was based there.
Even sadder was the fact that she knew Billie Whizz as he was called, one of the two killed. He would generally get out of the aircraft before the pilot did his display but on that ocassion, they decided not to land and go ahead with the show.
At the top of a loop, the engine cut out and the aircraft tumbled. We could see the pilot had started to regain a correct attitude but there was just too little height for him to pull out.
Two popular chaps dead. Sickening.
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Tragic, Alwyn.
Yes, this is not a motoring topic - but more of that later.
Several pilots have been lost flying old aircraft. It's not that the machines are impossible to fly, or particularly unreliable - but there are so few pilots around nowadays with enough airtime on them, particularly the "warbirds (which have quite high wing loadings and don't recover from mishaps easily - like the Mosquito you mentioned).
Add to that the fact that the people putting on the displays are carrying out their routines quite close to the ground, so there isn't much margin for error. I fly radio controlled model aircraft and the starting point for aerobatics is "three mistakes high"!
When these aircraft were operational there were regular prangs, but they were low in proportion to the numbers of hours being flown. Landings were always a risk - low speed handling, engine cooling problems and carburettor mixture settings etc, and there have been a few of these on the display circuit. Mark Hannah was tragically killed in Spain two years ago, demonstrating an Me 109.
Coming back to cars (there is a link, you see!), at least you can put the brakes on and park up (mostly). Engine failure doesn't usually lead to a crash.
I just hope they don't stop flying them (old aircraft, that is).
Ian
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Ian,
3 mistakes high? A good rule.
Driving in my Volvo 740 :-)..... I often pass a large field where model aircraft enthusiasts gather.
Having stopped to look, I once saw a model aircraft doing hesitation rolls. ( Is that the correct term?) It looked very professional. The model was rolling in small "jerks" perhaps 45 degrees at a time. Very clever.
I always call them 'planes but my wife insists on "aircraft"
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Alwyn wrote:
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I always call them 'planes but my wife insists on "aircraft"
You're lucky, Alwyn - mine calls them toys!
Ian
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The wife's uncle was in Halifaxes, and said not one word about it to the day he died.
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One of the better ones in this series. No silly tantrums, no artificial deadlines. They admitted to the real scale of the work (over 6 months) and the use of many experts. A beautiful plane was the result.
Agreed that the guy in the moustache and the 'real' experts would make a much more interesting set of presenters.
Liked the use of hot oil to unseize the engine
Ian L.
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I too was interested by the 'hot oil' technique, however I was surprised to see it on the telly without a PC 'don't try this at home' especially as he was using a gas ring to heat the saucepan full of WD40.
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I actually enjoyed the program this week, the only annoying part was when Lee Hurst came out with:
"If they can't unseize the engine the plane might never fly again"
and
"If they don't get the fabric absolutely perfect they'll have to rip it all off and start again!"
talk about being over dramatic!
Andrew
www.hispecgolfs.co.uk
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Alwyn
Difficult one this.
As another plane enthusiast I love to see examples of aircraft on display, up close, but on the other hand the air is their element and the best place to appreciate them, but flying always carries a risk.
I was sad to hear of the crash of the P38 Lightning at Duxford a few years ago, having admired it in the hanger on my previous visit. I don't know where there is another example in the UK and in the case of a prang there are rarely enough salvageable bits to do a rebuild.
I was a little disappointed that in the Tangmere B of B museum that I drove to (motoring link) the examples were all of fighters, nothing of the German bombers that they were fighting! Are there any German bombers on display in the UK?
BTW, my cousin was killed when "Tail end Charlie" in a Lancaster before I was born and is buried in Belgium.
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Brian wrote:
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>Are there any German bombers on display in the UK?
Yes there are, Brian
The RAF museums at Hendon and Cosford house the following:
He 111 (Hendon)
Me 110 (Hendon)
Ju87 (Hendon)
Ju 88 (Hendon)
Me 410 (Cosford)
Additionally,there is a flying example of an LVG, WW1 German Bomber, at Old Warden.
Ian
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Brian,
My late uncle was in the RAF as part of ground crew and said he was always pulling out tail-end-Charlies. Dead, of course.
Thank goodness they were there to save UK. And all for nothing as we are handed over to Europe on a plate.
Off to clean Volvo. (Motor link)
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A colleague's uncle was in a flight crew, and was shot down and killed on a raid. Another member of the aircrew, Ft Sgt Alkemade jumped out, sans parachute, at 18 000 ft, landed in a snowdrift and survived.
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"BTW, my cousin was killed when "Tail end Charlie" in a Lancaster before I was born and is buried in Belgium."
Sorry to hear that Brian. Did the others survive?
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Dave
No, all eight (they had an extra man on board) were killed when it was attacked by a night fighter and blew up in mid-air in May 1944.
There is an excellent series of books which list every bomber command aircraft lost in WW2 with the squadron, aircraft ID, date, time, target or mission, crew names and fates plus whatever details of the loss are known. Sad reading but they give a good picture of the war's progress. Fascinating winter's evening reading!
I bought them when I drove to Coningsby (motoring link)
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I'm living in the south east now & the Churchyards are littered with pilots killed in the Battle of Britain. It really brings home to you that it was a full on battle that ordinary Englishmen could watch at their garden gate.
I'm glad to say that we'll never forget the contribution Fighter and Bomber Commands made. The stories of their everyday life are utterly exceptional by the standards of our time.
I went flying with a Friend and the east of the country is littered with WW2 airfields many of which you can still land at if theres a flying club there or you are prepared to ask the Farmers permission.
In some ways I envy the people of the time.
According an account I read recently when new pilots joined their squadrons they would tend to bring their own vehicles. The attrition rate was high enough that you could always help yourself to a fallen comrades vehicle. Brings a lump to my throat.
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My maternal grandfather's brother was a squadron leader of a pathfinder squadron. (Great Uncle perhaps ?)
Anyway, nice chap, quite small and ordinary looking. First time I had a conversation with him about the war you could have pushed me over with a feather when he told me what he did and some of the stories.
Its not just what these guys did that gets me, its how young they were when they did it.
Quite what the current youth would do if faced with a similar situation, I really don't know.
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Mark (Brazil) wrote:
>
Quite what the current youth would do if faced with a similar
situation, I really don't know.
I think many of them would shine, Mark. There's a world of difference between the pond life I see in the town, pretending they can drink, and the professional soldier, sailor, or airman.
Mind you, could they fight without a keyboard?
Ian
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One of (if not the only) flying Shackletons is based in Cape Town, and an ex-RAF friend works on it voluntarily over weekends. He says they often get visits from old gentlemen, who flew with Bomber Command during the war, and love to look around the old bird - which was, after all, pretty much based on the Lancaster.
Unfortunately the Shack has very few flying hours left on the airframe, so only comes out to fly on special occasions these days.
Still awesome as those big Griffon engines come howling over head!
On a similar note, there is a private airforce in town, with Bucaneers, Strikemasters, Hunters and an EE Lightning.
Mr Beachy-Head (that's his name!) came over my house last Saturday morning at about 150 feet (I kid you not!) giving it some serious welly - part of a display above Killarney racetrack (*motoring link!) which is half a mile or so from my house.
Certainly got me out of bed in a hurry!
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Ian,
Is the Lightning privately flown in SA? I understand one of those is unlikely to ever get CAA approval for private use here, too potent, servicing issues and the performance/reliability character tilted too far in the military direction.
Went to the final show of these super aircraft at Binbrook before they were withdrawn from service, wettest airshow I've been to.
David
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Yes indeedy, David!
www.thundercity.co.za
(I could do a clever link thingie, but I couldn't be arsed!)
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Had a good look at the link and other sites that gave a third party view of their activities. Seem they are very well respected in the fast jet world.
Would love to have them based round here.
We are close to a couple of RAF low level flight paths and on the odd night seem to get used as a waypoint, half a dozen Tornados flat to the deck nearly take the roof off.
Also the USA F-15s practice dog fighting at a slighter higher level over this open area, very noisy...very risky.
David
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We took "Junior" (2 years old) out to the airport the other week, and she stood and watched the jumbos and 737s taking off - and then the guy in the Bucaneer came along, and went screaming up...
Junior was MOST impressed!
I am glad to say, though, that her favourite things are aeroplanes (Points and says "Daar!", runs to fetch daddy when she sees one!), trains (very exciting - "Train, train!") and cars - refuses to get out until SHE has had a turn in the drivers seat, playing with switches, radio, honking the horn etc...
Think I've got me a little tomboy here!
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Ian,
Funny the "W" girls, both under 7yrs, have yet to experience an air show. That's why the old planes at Shuttleworth (UK) in May seemed a good introduction.
At many an air show the first fast jet pass is drowned out (??) by crying small children.
SWMBO just been looking at Thunder City with admiration, she is connected with such things in a way I can't mention here!
David
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>>I think many of them would shine, Mark. There's a world of difference between the pond life I see in the town, pretending they can drink, and the professional soldier, sailor, or airman.
Well, that certainly is a point, and I meant no offence. The Armed Forces do seem to step forward when needed and pefrom.
But would the professionals be sufficient in number, or could it get to the point where the pondlife needed conscripting ?
Many [most?] of the fighters in the Second World War were conscripted.
Imagine !
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Would the professionals be sufficient? Not in number, not for a serious conflict anyway. Then we'd be down to the pond life as conscripts, and who knows what would happen?
We couldn't command the sort of conscript army that Napoleon had, for example - all fired up and keen to serve their new Republic. Makes you think, doesn't it? What on earth would we do?
Ian
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Thanks for that, Ian.
I must visit Hendon one day, but it is round the M25 car-park!
Duxdord is easier, straight up the M11.
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Ex colleague, now long retired, totally inoffensive old geezer, drove round in a (non yellow) Reliant Regal van (motoring link) was with the 2nd Batn 1 Para under Col John Frost in the first wave into Arnhem during Opn Market Garden.
Maybe thats why society was generally peaceful, they had been to hell and back, and maybe thats why he drove the Regal like he did, after Arnhem I reckon a Regal on two wheels is a doddle.
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When the Shackletons were retired in the UK they did a fly-past over London. Any flypasts for London go over our house: the use the church tower nearby as a way-point.
The three Shackletons arrived about an hour early and I got some photos as the circled.
The 50th B of B flypast was really something. We were having an extension built at the time and the top of the scaffolding at roof level was a good viewpoint. Shame the processing laboratory screwed up my photos and the sky came out green. The son-in-law of some good friends was supposed to be in it but he was killed six weeks before in a mid-air collision.
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Ian
If Bush and Blair screw up in Afghanistan and Iraq you could find ou soon enough!
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Salvage Squad was generally derided here, with good reasons, but the Gypsy Moth programme was very interesting. It might be interesting to make a programme of a video diary of some restoration projects, rather than the contrived 2 weeks Challenge Aneka type race format. It would probably only get shown on Discovery in the afternoon for the sad old gits like us.
I thought the engine unseizer was hot oil, not WD40. I'd think WD40 has too many volatile solvents to make the technique sensible. It would probably detonate the vapour.
On Scrapyard Challenge the other night, one team built a model plane, one built a blimp. So after trying the bits of polythene, the airship team prised open a car boot to find a roll of abandoned airship material (Xylar, Mylar?). One of the plane builders had the good fortune to discover a 12" wooden propellor amongst the scrapped motors. Remarkable coincidences, contrived seems an inadequate word. It made Salvage Squad almost plausible.
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