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Cars on Mars? I did not know that. - Alwyn
I wonder why Michael Meacher keeps telling us our cars are melting the ice caps and Mr Brown penalises us accordingly.

Just found this.

www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_sn...l

It reveals that ice caps on Mars are melting at an alarming rate, unlike our own which remain tens of degrees below freezing in spite of the buffoons who tell us that an ice shelf at the Antarctic Peninsular, the Larsen 'B', melted away causing fears of catastrophic flooding.

Most folks here are knowledgeable enough to know that if floating ice melts there is no change at all in water levels.

So if Meacher is correct, then there *must* be cars on Mars. The logic is inescapable as Mr Lucas might say.
Re: Cars on Mars? I did not know that. - Tom Shaw
As water expands when it turns to ice, and 4/5ths of the ice caps are submerged anyway I have always thought that sea levels would actually fall as the ice melts. The greens will probably maintain that the ice caps on Mars are melting due to the exhaust gases from all those space craft we keep sending up. Perhaps they should be fitted with catalytic converters.
Re: Cars on Mars? I did not know that. - Alwyn
Tom,

I did the experiment my kitchen (sad sod).

I filled a pint glass with ice cubes to the brim. I then filled the glass with cold water to the brim. This caused the ice to float above the level of the brim.
(Icebergs)

It was then left to melt and lo, there was no change in the water level. When water freezes, it expands (which is how pipes get burst) but the ice displaces it's own weight in water. But you knew that.
Re: Cars on Mars? I did not know that. - Tom Shaw
That's the most conclusive proof I've ever been presented with which explodes the green myth of rising sea levels caused by melting ice caps. I shall use that in future arguments with my politically correct niece. She is a social worker.

Thank you Alwyn.
Re: Martian Climate - Rod Maxwell
That's an interesting article but it didn't really suggest a cause as such. Mars has a much more elliptical orbit than the Earth so I would expect that to play a part.

I am sure I read an article a couple of months ago that some of the Antartic ice shelves are increasing in size. Have I imagined this?
Re: Martian Climate - Randolph Lee
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/22/tech/main504436...l
Re: Martian Climate - Alwyn
Rod,

No you have not imagined that you read of an increase in ice mass.

If you have time, you may wish to read a note I sent to a reporter in our local paper who was banging on about global warming causing ice to melt. He had clearly not done his homework. I also sent him actual temperature measurements from Antarctica's Halley Bay but the chart won't reproduce here. They have been falling for decades and the current annual mean is minus 21 deg. Celsius.

Letter reads.............

Dear Mr Williams,
Your article on the ?melting ice-caps which could cause catastrophic flooding? puzzled me. It could also needlessly worry people who have not bothered to learn the truth. First of all, tide gauges world-wide show no rising sea level trend.

The recent break-off of the Larsen B ice in Antarctica had been predicted for years and is nothing to do with the global warming myth. This ice shelf, which projected into the sea, pushing further and further from land, eventually broke off due to tidal stresses. There can be no catastrophic rise in sea levels as the ice had already displaced it?s own weight in water and levels will not change. The Peninsula from which Larsen B detached itself juts out into the Southern Ocean and has been warming for some time but this is nothing to do with human activities.

A recent report in Nature magazine by thirteen scientists confirms that 98% of Antarctica has been cooling for the last 35 years. The overall mass of ice has been increasing by 26.8 Gigatons per year. (Joughin & Tulaczyk, vol.295 p.476, 18th January 2002) It is difficult to see how a warming planet can produce more ice. With temperatures at present 21 degrees below freezing, how can an ice cap melt?

Your article mentions the accuracy of satellite measurements so why not mention that NOAA satellites have been measuring the global temperatures for the last 23 years and show no warming trend. Radio sonde weather balloons confirm the figures.

?Global warming? is a myth promoted by tax-hungry politicians playing Canute and of course some government funded scientists make a very good living involving themselves in research to find a solution to a non-existent problem.

To expose the melting ice-cap myth, check temperature records in Halley Bay , Antarctica (below) as published by the British Antarctic Survey. Should you need any more information please let me know; I will be happy to help.

Best regards
Re: Martian Climate - Rod Maxwell
Thanks for the reply. I find the whole climate thing interesting but more from my liking for science, and astronomy in particular. I do have my own theories on this which begin with the premise that science and politics don't mix!

Anyway, this is all way off-topic for a motoring forum.

Rod.
Re: Martian Climate - Alwyn
I think it is relevant to motoring because, on the basis of the biggest scam ever perpetrated on mankind, we are being taxed and harried off the road
Re: Martian Climate - Bill Doodson
I thought that Antarctic ice melting raised sea levels due to its being on land and that Arctic ice would have no effect due to it floating. No motoring connection but I m glad the ice is off the roads in the morinings it means I can use the bike again for work.


Bill
Re: Martian Climate - Alwyn
Bill,

That would be true but the land ice is so cold, even if temps went up by 10 degrees, it would still be well below freezing. And the temps are falling, not rising.

The lump which broke off last week was already out to sea and was bound to break off sooner or later.

Watch the bike. The only time I fell of my Red Hunter KH twin was when I pulled into a garage forecourt at very low speed and the wheels just went from under me. I knocked over a stand of Havoline oil bottles.
Re: Cars on Mars? I did not know that. - T.G.Webb
I picked up the item on the Mars warming some months ago and I see that yesterday's teletext letters also raises this.

A NASA site gives a revealing graph of sunspot incidence over the past few hundred years, bearing in mind that more sunspots = higher solar output power, see:

earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Library/SORCE/sorce3.html

together with further discussion.

While no-one can be complacent about 30% increases in CO2 levels the fact of apparently increasing solar input seems to be a politically incorrect factor in the debate.
Re: Cars on Mars? I did not know that. - Alwyn
TG.

CO2 is good. Plants love it. Horticulturalists introduce it into their greenhouses to ensure lush growth.

CO2 levels have been much higher in the past as witnessed by many ice core studies. And the Medieval warm period was 2 degrees warmer than today with no help from my car's tail pipe.
Re: Cars on Mars? I did not know that. - Stu
The melting ice on Mars has been proven to be exacerbated by the recently found wreckage of Hitlers escape B52 bomber (previously and mistakenly believed to have landed on the moon) ..........according to one Sunday tabloid, with a sports bias...............
Re: Cars on Mars? I did not know that. - Andy
Alwyn - would you be good enough to post the salient points of your above writings on this site please?

news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/default.stm

All the usual suspects are their, along with their 'end-of-the-world-and-it's-all-our-fault' rantings.
Re: Martian Climate - afm
The floating ice is fresh water, mainly from snow fall. It displaces it's own weight of salt water (denser than fresh); 20% of the ice (someone said) is above the water level. If the ice melts, the sea level will rise.

Please repeat the experiment using ice cubes in salt (very) water. the ice cubes will float higher and water should be spilt when they melt. Please advise your findings soonest, the fate of the world rests/floats on it.
Re: Martian Climate - mybrainhurts
Stu........

What irresponsible journalism.

How could Hitler have learned to fly a B52?
How could he have nicked one without the Yanks noticing?
How could he have held his breath long enough to get to Mars?

Quite frankly, I don't believe a word of it..........