I know there is a lot of talk about it going on, but does anyone have a concrete example of this devious technique? TV programmes go on about it and everyone says watch out for it, but it seems pretty hard to get the dash of my VW and start turing back the dials, or is it?
Paranoia or realistic concern?
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Yes. I know someone who reverse clocked their company car (adding about 40k miles on so that it would be cheaper when he came to buy it. Once bought he reversed the mileage - I think to its initial & proper reading
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I can certainly give an example from a few years back when one of the partners in the firm I worked for at the time part-exchanged his car at what we thought to be a reputable dealer.
We looked at it for sale on the forecourt a couple of weeks later, just out of interest to see how it had been tarted up, and noticed that it had lost about 30,000 miles.
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Once when shopping for wheels - saw what I wanted, the numbers made sense, etc.
Amongst a few others problem - the glovebox was jammed shut.
Out comes the dealer's toolbox, open comes the glovebox. Inside is the manual - including service history!
The last service was 8 months before, and 40 000kms ahead!
I didn't buy the car!
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If you saw the show last,you were shown a very small glimpse of what goes on.The electronic clock doctors can barely keep up with the demand for their services.Rental companies,leasing companies,crooked traders,Joe public,and i have been told even the big fancy main dealer palaces.My source tells me that fancy German brands are the cars that keep him busiest.Carefully check your paper work,dont take the leasing co print out at face value,phone the service dept that has stamped the book,check it carefully.Dont take the word of the person selling his Merc/BM/Audi that he has had from new,my source says that he often 'helps' Joe Public between services.Be very careful!Trust no one!
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Martin
Yes it does go on. My Dad was in the used motor trade - you can believe me or not, but he was anti clocking. Getting your VW dashboard apart for the first time might be a pig, but for a pro who's done it many times it's very easy.
I understand that not all digital speedos can be reprogrammed simply by plugging a laptop into the diagnostic port - some require a speedo out job, so its worth scrutinising a car very carefully for signs of odd or misplaced screws or things out of alignment. I also read somewhere that the C5 can't be clocked at all - some action that Citroen have taken, apparently.
Ian
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The Citroen C5 can,apparently be clocked,remember if theres money to be made these clock doctors will find a way to do it.
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Most manufacturers have claimed their cars can't be clocked.
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When clocks were mechanical and only ran to 99,999 miles, then forward clocking was the way it was done. There were always a few Cortinas parked up on Whitfield Street (leads into Warren Street) with power drills connected to their speedos clocking them from say 85,000 miles on to 25,000 miles.
HJ
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OK, I think we've established beyond a doubt that
a) Clocking does go on and
b) Almost everyone from dodgy main dealers to Joe Public is at it
So, what are the best methods to check whether a vehicle has had a "haircut"?
Chad.R
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If you are purchasing a vehicle do not be tempted to look at the speedo at all.
Only do that at the end of your inspection to see does it tally from all the wear signs. Vehicles are of different quality but look for shiny steering wheel, wear on the seats, etc. etc.
A long test drive to see if its showing wear or looseness.
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Right!
Given the time (a few years younger!) and the patience, and given any half decent car I could make it last 100k +. Or, if you want, give it me for free and I'll destroy it in -10k.
Attend to Moosh, then clocking is irrelevant!
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If buying a "nearly new" car, look at the tyres carefully.
They should be the factory originals and not too worn
If worn the car has been either clocked or thrashed,
if a pair of tyrers has been changed, even more so.
Asingle replaced tyre suggests it has been badly kerbed.
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My dutch associate had overrun the mileage allowance on his leased BMW 530d. His accountant asked him for the keys disappeared for 30 min and returned with the car with 25000 km shaved off. To keep the records kosher, he did the next service himself. Only way of suspecting anything would be the rapid tyre wearmartin wrote:
>
> I know there is a lot of talk about it going on, but does
> anyone have a concrete example of this devious technique? TV
> programmes go on about it and everyone says watch out for it,
> but it seems pretty hard to get the dash of my VW and start
> turing back the dials, or is it?
>
> Paranoia or realistic concern?
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A local authority I formerly worked for had a car pool. The cars could be 'hired' to the employee's at a pence per mile cost. Each weekend a car would be 'hired' by a certain employee for the weekend. The employee lived 5 miles away from his place of employment, and on the Monday he'd book the car back in after covering 35 miles.
The employee hired one car for the best part of two years. This car suffered early tyre wear on all four tyres, and premature wear and tear stone chips etc. Suspisions were raised, but in the absence of hard evidence nothing could be done (this was local government after all).
It all came to a head when the employee had a serious crunch on a Saturday in London. The car had to be placed on a tranporter and towed a considerable distance back the the main dealer used by the local authority. Unfortunately for the employee the mileage was checked, and was found to be only 5 miles more than when booked out the preceeding day.
Net result, employee admitted driving the car 300 miles each weekend to see his girlfriend. To save on the 'hire costs' the Employee in question disconnected the speedo before setting out late Friday night. Employee reimbursed employer for 'cheated' milage and accepted instant dismissal.
What a prat.
Steve
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Very simple.
Buy on condition.
Then if clocking doesn't command a premium, it will stop.
Kev
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Kev wrote:
>
> Very simple.
>
> Buy on condition.
>
> Then if clocking doesn't command a premium, it will stop.
>
> Kev
The problem with clocking is (for example), a car has done 115k and is due a cambelt service. It is clocked back to 70k, the new owner will think that the cambelt has been done 10k before as there is a full service history. 15k later the cambelt goes and a new engine is required.
Jonathan
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with the prevelance of so much clocking would'nt it be better to just buy a high miler car and be done with it.? Surely a car of 5yrs plus with 100k or more is probably a safe bet!
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Hmm, I knew there was a problem.......... Lol, o well.
Couldn't you stamp bits when they were fitted? I dont know and im not dissing your [good] point, but a stamp saying when it was fitted, so that could be checked.....?
Having said that, if you take away the point of clocking, then you take away clocking. then this saftey issue is avoided.
How do you know if an 80k cars had its belt changed?
Kev
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Simple, declare the mileage to the DVLA every year when renwing the VED or during the Mot. Link it to HPI database and the DVLA has another revenue stream and the public get clarity
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Indeed what a prat. Constructive dismissal, and the lawyer takes half the loot!
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The problem is that a lot of quality cars don't show their mileage. My Saab 9-5 has done 82k in 3 years, but you wouldn't argue if someone told you it had done 40k - no suspension clonks, no engine noise, no nothing. All tyres replaced in pairs. Seats OK, pedal rubbers fine. I'm happy with the integrity of the mileage, knowing its source.
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Recently I saw a BMW that I owned about 10 years ago. It seems to have the same mileage (100k) as when I sold it....
Best I've seen was 410k on a SAAB 9000 and 400k on an MB 190. Both could have had 250k removed from the mileage and no one would have been any the wiser.
I've also driven cars with genuine 50k on the clock that drove like 500k.
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I've driven a car with 1,007,000 on the clock. It was the Mobil 1 American spec E30 325iauto. Even though, in order to clock up the miles it had been running near enough 24 hours a day in near perfect conditions for an engine, they still changed the oil every 7,500 miles. As a result the car ran perfectly. The object of the exercise was to get the ton out of it on a closed track so we could run the line "100mph in a 1,000,000 miler". A few months later, I drove it again. It was at Silverstone for the Fleet Show and was being thrashed round the track by anyone who wanted a go all week. By that time it had clocked up 1,010,000 and still felt super smooth even though the autobox was getting a bit worn.
HJ
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with the prevelance of so much clocking would'nt it be better to just buy a high miler car and be done with it.? Surely a car of 5yrs plus with 100k or more is probably a safe bet!
> Except two relatives have company cars that do 150k in their first two years. A 5 year old with 100 k could very easily be on 200k.
Simple, declare the mileage to the DVLA every year when renwing the VED or during the Mot. Link it to HPI database and the DVLA has another revenue stream and the public get clarity
> I don't do this. The only person who can profit from clocking my car or bike is me. I don't intend to do it but why deny myself the option?
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Re the subject, simple:
Buy a new car.
The ONLY way you can possibly know that everything on any car you buy has never been altered/changed/knackered is by buying a new one.
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I agree to a large extent.
However lot's of new cars are damage before they are sold and a suprising number have a spray job.
An old car dealer mate had a company Sierra. (Long while ago). It had been badly smacked at th efactory and repaired on site but nobody had noticed the whole car was distorted and the bonnet was 2inches higher than it should have been. It was repaired an sold after 3 months in his ownership as Ex demo.
And according to lifting the bonnet some new cars are actually clocked!
If you want a goodun buy new but let the buyer beware!
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I used to audit a car transport company.
The main methods of shifting cars from factory to dealer were:
1. Train
2. Transporter
3. Plates
1. often requred a respray and windows, radios, spare wheels, etc. replaced
2. could require dents repaired and roofs/bonnets resprayed if the top car leaked
3. often required accident damage repaired and arrived with thrashed engines
I saw foreign cars parked on the dock with salt water lashing over them.
The only safe way to get a new car is to pick it up from the factory yourself!
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