Reading a lot of the posts, everybody seems to drives a petrol or diesel car...thats all there is i hear you say apart from the Toyota Prius...
I do laugh quietly to myself when i fill my car up with LPG...full tank 47 litres...£20....300 miles on a run 0.429p per litre......do you do high milage ?...it's a longer service interval, less wear on the engine....quieter than a normal petrol car, less pollutig then a petrol or diesel and lower car tax....whats the disadvantage ???....there is none and before you say no stations have it there's over 1600 in the UK and loads around....just look out for them on your way home, you'll be surprised !!!
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Many converted petrol cars run less efficiently on LPG than on petrol, as much as 30% less mpg, so for instance 30mpg can become nearer 20mpg negating a lot of the lower LPG cost and meaning the convertion takes years to pay for itself.
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Yes that well maybe, but i bought an Astra 1.6CD with all the bells and whistles with 55k on the clock for £3400, factory fitted LPG and always get in the region of 28mpg which works out to 56mpg petrol roughly...and there's quite a lot of factory fitted cars on the market they just don't advertise them, for instance Volvo now don't sell LPG because they only sold 20 units last year....well if you don't advertise it or tell people they can have it they can't buy it !....maybe they don't want you to know about it !! Ford and Vauxhall do they entire range in LPG but you try finding it on their website !
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LPG soon gets the money back, for a high annual mileage guzzler but you'll never get the conversion cost back on a low annual mileage ecomomy car.
A google search will quickly find websites which will compare conversion cost to savings, for your car.
Don't get misled by the "LPG is clean" claims. Yes it produces less CO, HC and NOx thus not needing a cat BUT it produces just as much CO2 which is the main vehicle emission we have to worry about.
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Loads of LPG cars where I live. They're easy to spot. They're the ones stuttering, stammering, stalling and back-firing away from the traffic lights.
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What I don't understand is why anybody thinks we need to worry about CO2 emmissions, there is so much research contradicting the popular myth that CO2 is causing global warming, it just isn't reported because it wouldn't make a good story...
If I did a big mileage I would consider getting my car converted...
Blue
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Don't forget that there's also no real guarantee that the current price benefit of LPG will continue, since it's due mostly to a low tax burden, which the government could re-think at any time (and the more popular LPG becomes, the more likely they are to do so).
So, LPG is a good idea based on long-term costs, but you can't guarantee that the long-term costs won't rise dramatically.
I think that might be why...
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What I don't understand is why anybody thinks we need to worry about CO2 emmissions, there is so much research contradicting the popular myth that CO2 is causing global warming, it just isn't reported because it wouldn't make a good story... Blue
I've always been puzzled about CO2 being in the atmosphere. When I was a kid at school, we were taught that CO2 is heavier than air. How come it manages to get up there?
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What I don't understand is why anybody thinks we need to worry about CO2 emmissions, there is so much research contradicting the popular myth that CO2 is causing global warming, it just isn't reported because it wouldn't make a good story...
What I don't understand is why anybody thinks we don't need to worry about CO2 emissions, there is so much research contradicting the popular myth that CO2 doesn't cause global warming...
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Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
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less wear on the engine....
Not according to some of the previous posts on here.
whats the disadvantage ???
Less space in the boot due to the extra tank for starters.
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whats the disadvantage ???
Not being allowed on Le Shuttle IIRC, also some Alpine tunnels.
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Bazzabear's point about the reason for the low price of LPG echos what happened with diesel. When I first bought a diesel car the fuel was 11p a litre cheaper than petrol, but as they became more popular the difference quickly whittled down to the point where it is now one or two pence dearer than petrol.
Should the government start getting hurt by the loss of revenue because people convert to LPG all they will do is find a report from somewhere claiming that LPG is damaging to the envionment / health or whatever and use that as an excuse to bang the tax up.
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"as much as 30% less mpg, so for instance 30mpg can become nearer 20mpg ".
No.
30 mpg = 0.0333 gallons per mile
20 mpg = 0.05 gallons per mile
Therefore additional petrol used per mile = 0.05 - 0.0333 = 0.0167 gallons.
Percentage additional petrol used = 0.0167/0.0333 = 50.6%, not 30%.
I don't think LPG is that inefficient.
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I've had no problems with my LPG, it's smooth and response maybe the other cars are "botched" installations. It's worked out cheaper to run and tax than my old 1.1l fiesta and i've got all the bells and whistles. Your right about the tax at the moment, just glad it still isn't popular and i hope it continues that way. I know that i have many cheap and pleasant journeys in my Astra.
We all have our opions and i respect your views, but i'm the one whose NOT paying £50 to fill my car up !
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i'm the one whose NOT paying £50 to fill my car up !
I have two alternative 'funny' responses to this post, but I can't decide which one to use.
There's:
So am I, I'm paying £60!
But it's not terribly funny.
Or there's:
Yeah, but I'm the one who's NOT driving an Astra!
But there's the risk of it being taken badly. Read whichever one makes you least angry! ;)
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Lots of French towns won't allow lpg-powered vehicles without extra safety equipment - there's even a road sign warning them off (see recent thread). Underground car parks too. It must mean something?
Ps: Why do you call yourself petrol-head? ;-)
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Ps: Why do you call yourself petrol-head? ;-)
seconded
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............ just glad it still isn't popular and i hope it continues that way.
A somewhat selfish view I opine. And there's no point telling us how good it is if you don't want us to follow your example. Not that I would anyway ~ I'm a true petrolhead! ;-)
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L\'escargot.
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"as much as 30% less mpg, so for instance 30mpg can become nearer 20mpg ". No. 30 mpg = 0.0333 gallons per mile 20 mpg = 0.05 gallons per mile Therefore additional petrol used per mile = 0.05 - 0.0333 = 0.0167 gallons. Percentage additional petrol used = 0.0167/0.0333 = 50.6%, not 30%.
Yes 30%, I said as much as 30% less mpg (miles per gallon), so if you would normally get 30 miles per gallon, 30% less miles per gallon would mean 21 miles per gallon, i.e. nearer 20 mpg (miles per gallon) as I stated.
>>I don't think LPG is that inefficient.>>
You are however right in that 50% more fuel is used at 20mpg than 30 mpg, are LPGs that inefficient? Not all clearly though I have heard of 30 mpg cars doing nearer 20 mpg on LPG.
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Right from the word go, I would have had an LPG, but always expected that the duty would soar as soon as I had got one. I'm most surprised that the price of LPG is still so relatively low after all these years. I expected once there was market saturation, it would increase in price, and then the LPG Autogas pumps would become 4 rusty threaded rods sticking out of a concrete plinth on the forecourts.
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<< .............. and before you say no stations haveit there's over 1600 in the UK and loads around....
The nearest station to my house that sells LPG is 30 miles away. I do about 10k per year and during my mundane routine journeys I don't see a single one. And if your car's fuel tank is at the same pressure as the 47 kg propane bottles outside my house then I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it!
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L\'escargot.
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I sense a lot of hostility towards me...my car and LPG....
So i drive an Astra, i also own a Subaru Impreza Turbo that would probably out perform all your cars hands down.
Keep up the insults guys...so when i can afford to go on the extra nice holiday every year 'cos i'm saving money on fuel i'll send you all a post card ! (i'll be able to afford too !!!)
Regards
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I don't think anyone is trying to be hostile, but there are plenty who disagree with your point of view.
There are many people who have had a less pleasant experience of LPG conversions that you have had, and have reported as such on here. Problems with reduced range, increased servicing costs and so on mean that, at lower mileages, it's not necessarily a no-brainer.
A lot depends on your own personal risk profile, in the same way as buying a CR diesel has inherent risks that you may or may not wish to take. Personal choice, personal consequences.
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I dont see any hostility either and my other car is a pedal car with bigger wheels so there
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I understand but mine wasn't a conversion..it was a genuine factory fit option from Vauxhall.
Service every 20k, i do it myself cost me about £40 with plugs/oil filter etc and a gas service every 2 years £80.
So the running costs are nothing. I've had it 3 months now and spend about £130 on gas which equates to about £260 so i've saved £130 so far i average 28mpg. I don't know about after-market conversions but i'd buy another factory fitted LPG car. If it was that volatile a fuel they wouldn't use it, petrol is more volatile than diesel but no-one really cares as long as they can fill there car up with it and go away for the weekend.
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I think you made your own point when you said that not many factory fit conversions were available - hence why few people have got one. Personally I probably wouldn't buy one as I would buy a diesel instead, as I prefer the low down grunt. I also wouldn't buy an Astra of any sort - but that's just personal bias! If you were really concerned about cost, then you would have bought a £500 diesel banger - and saved yourself £3k straight up. Although LPG is a bit cleaner, 28 mpg can hardly be described as 'green'. I think I could buy it at 40p / litre, but in a 2.0 Xantia, it would probably do about 25 mpg - which is probably about cost equal for the HDi at 50+ mpg- so I'd take the diesel anyday.
Oh - and if you think LPG is not that volatile, consider that the pressure in an LPG tank will be between 3 and 10 barg (depending on the ambient temp), and Google LPG BLEVE - that should turn up some interesting photos.....
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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3 and 10 bar.... i've been scuba diving before got a tank strapped to with 5mm of my body now THAT'S DANGEROUS !!!
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I don't think anyone is trying to be hostile,
Neither do I. Perhaps they took offence at your smug attitude?
"I do laugh quietly to myself when i fill my car up with LPG"
"i'm the one whose NOT paying £50 to fill my car up !"
"So i drive an Astra, i also own a Subaru Impreza Turbo that would probably out perform all your cars hands down."
"so when i can afford to go on the extra nice holiday every year 'cos i'm saving money on fuel i'll send you all a post card !"
Just a thought.
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My experiences of LPG have been pretty favourable. In some countries (Netherlands, Australia) they are very popular.
I once bought a Merc from BCA with an aftermarket (OMVL brand) LPG installation and it ran very nicely. No real difference between LPG and petrol. It seemed to do a few less mpg, probably only 10% less though. The tank fitted in the spare wheel location and you had to carry a can of tyre repair foam. Quite a few pumps in my area too. I sold it on Ebay and there was LOTS of interest. It went to a guy up near Warrington who had a long daily commute. It sold for substantially more than a petrol-only vehicle would have made - so I think there is a market for them provided its a 'proper' installation and not a bodge. On petrol 4x4's they are VERY popular.
I think the modern tanks are pretty safe. Remember, most petrol injection systems run at 3+bar. LPG systems usually have at least 3 cut-off solenoids and also a flow-rate cut-off in the tank - so even if you hold all the valves open and cut the pipe it still shuts off. Probably safer than petrol....
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I looked at the filling station on the way home - actually it's 34.9ppl. That might be low enough to tempt me!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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I ran a 1978 Mitsubishi Galant 1850 on LPG for about 5 years from 1985 in New Zealand. There were cheap loans available at the time from the government for conversions as I think this was in a time of fuel crisis. I was very pleased with the performance of the LPG, which was very similar to that on petrol. The main reason I got rid of the car was that the body was rusting out, but also the LPG tank was a very light stainless steel one. These have to be re-certified every five years, and I was told that the particular tank (NZ made) I had would not be re-certified due to problems with them. So that was the end of that car, but I was quite happy with the LPG conversion, which was an Italian-made item. I didn't have to replace any exhaust components while I had the car either, as the exhaust was largely free of the acidic compounds from petrol.
At that time, cars were also converted to CNG, or compressed natural gas, which was really low on power, had a high pressure tank and short range. I don' t think you can get that any more, but LPG is still around, though conversions are now much less common on anything but fleet vehicles.
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CNG conversions are still around but because of the weight of the very high pressure tank they're only suitable for heavier commercial vehicles.
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