Evening all. I'd like to share an incident which happened on my way home last night. Approaching a signal-controlled Y-junction I positioned myself in the right-hand lane to take the diverging road. On nearing the junction I saw that the diverging road was blocked by a 'Police - Accident' sign and a police officer was in attendance, directing traffic in the right-hand lane to rejoin the left lane and continue straight on. As I got to the stop line, the light controlling my lane was red, that controlling the left lane was green. The officer indicated for me to rejoin the left lane. A motorist in this lane stopped and signalled for me to pull in front of him, which I did, at this point triggering the red light camera covering my lane. Clearly I am now concerned that I may receive points and a fine for jumping the red light, although I was doing so under direction from a uniformed officer. Incidentally, I believe both the officer and the sign should have been clearly captured by the camera when it was activated.
With hindsight I can see that the sensible thing to do would have been to find a safe place to stop, return to the junction, explain the situation to the officer, and make a note of his number. Unfortunately I didn't do this, mainly due to the heavy traffic and lack of thought on my part. By the time I got home a few minutes later I had recovered my wits sufficiently to call the police enquiry line and ask their advice. They duly noted the details and issued me with a reference number, though were fairly noncommittal as to what might happen further down the line.
Today I have received a voicemail message along the lines of "If any automated follow-up is received, please contact PC Bloggs 123 at Anytown police station, quoting your reference number, and it will be dealt with."
In the opinion of fellow backroomers, what is likely to happen now?
1. The people who process the fines will apply common sense and nothing further will happen
2. I'll receive a NIP, contact PC Bloggs and he will make the whole thing go away
3. I'll receive a NIP, then have to embark upon a lengthy and time-consuming procedure (court etc) to try to get it overturned.
Is there a possibility I may end up having to take the points / fine after all?
Thanks in advance for all comments and advice.
Jon
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" please contact PC Bloggs 123 at Anytown police station"
Sounds to me like a wind up!
They 'should' be verified by human eye before you get sent a NIP which would hopefully show the situation.
If not, you have a reference number. If I myself got a NIP, I'd probably sue them for my time spent administering the matter just for bedevilment.
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Hi Ashok, thanks for the reply. The phone message was genuine - I just didn't want to mention names / numbers / locations. As you point out, I'm hoping any photographs will be reviewed by human eye and common sense will prevail....
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I'd probably sue them for my time spent administering the matter just for bedevilment.
No wonder our council tax is so high.
--
L\'escargot.
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1. The people who process the fines will apply common sense and nothing further will happen 2. I'll receive a NIP, contact PC Bloggs and he will make the whole thing go away 3. I'll receive a NIP, then have to embark upon a lengthy and time-consuming procedure (court etc) to try to get it overturned. Is there a possibility I may end up having to take the points / fine after all?
sadly options 1 & 2 might not happen. Plan for option 3 and anything else is a bonus. A uniformed police officer directing you has required you to take the action you took. He has overruled the lights system and you can commit an offence by ignoring him. Jot down on a blank bit of paper (as soon as possible) everything that happened, inc any witnesses and then date, time and sign that bit of paper, with someone witnessing you doing it, as it will be your 'original note' and for it to be relevant and usable in a court (ultimately if it were to go horribly wrong) you could only refer to it if the court was satisfied that you'd made the note when everything was still clear in your mind and you did it as soon as was practicable.
Write to PC Bloggs and explain your concerns and request a written reply.... all police forces are under time guidelines for replying to you. If necessary ask him/her to contact the camera prosecutions unit to explain your predicament on your behalf as it will show you're not just trying to lie and wriggle off the red light, which many people try to do.
If some idiot in the prosecutions bit did start the ball rolling to prosecute (and sadly there are some idiots in these roles) then i really cannot imagine any court would find you guilty of it...
hopefully it won't get that far....good luck
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Thanks for that westpig - very helpful. I will commit the details to paper now as you suggest. Unfortunately I was alone in the car and have no other witness details :-(
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When you do get to speak to a human at the police station, ask them for a CAD number. Every incident reported to the police will be given a CAD number which is unique to every incident. With the date and CAD number the police can trace back through records and it should show the details of every officer in attendence at the scene. Maybe then some details of what happened at the scene can be gleaned from the officers, hopefully from their pocket note book.
Hopefully it won't get that far though!
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Just a thought - the road in question is a pretty busy one, and there's a very good chance that other motorists may also have been caught by the camera when directed to move left by the PC as I was. Is it likely to help my cause if there are a number of other motorists 'snapped' in similar circumstances at around that time?
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Just two points.
1. You sweat for 15 days after the incident to see if you get a NOIP/172 request through the post (add a couple more days just to be sure). If nothing then the photo may well have captured the kerfuffe at the junction and the matter is at rest. If NOIP received respond immediately with what happened , Police Incident No for a NFA .
2. Instances like these are catch 22. Dont proceed when indicated to do so by Plod and offence committed. Do proceed and red signal breached - offence.
What Plod should have done was to to have hung a blanket or something similar over the light blanking them off so that they do not conform to TSGD so no offence to ignore.
Nothing at law IIRC that gives PLod authority to countermand a red light.
dvd
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Hi DVD, thanks for the authoritative response. Just one question - what is a NFA?
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Hi DVD, thanks for the authoritative response. Just one question - what is a NFA?
No Further Action
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Just to clarify - is it lawful for a policeman to instruct someone to ignore a red light? I thought we had a thread complaining of a police car that "pushed" someone over a red light to let them pass, and then booked him?
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Just to clarify - is it lawful for a policeman to instruct someone to ignore a red light? I thought we had a thread complaining of a police car that "pushed" someone over a red light to let them pass, and then booked him?
it must be........what happens if the lights are all stuck on red........or there's an ambulance stuck in a big queue behind you and the road needs to be cleared..... or there's a bomb warning and the road needs clearing etc,etc
tried looking it up but ran out of time..... s35 road traffic Act 1988 and s37 of the same covers some of it
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When you do get to speak to a human at the police station, ask them for a CAD number.
CAD = Computer Aided Despatch.........not every force has the same names for it, but they do all have some form of control room log number
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The Highway Code is contradictory:
87: You MUST obey signals given by police officers and traffic wardens
88: You MUST obey all traffic light signals and traffic signs giving orders, including temporary signals & signs
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