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Might have guessed this would turn into a Pole bashing thread. Crime - London - Immigrants.
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The Poles are in Slough and Inverness BBD
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And, of course, don't empathise properly with others therefore feel no guilt or remorse as most of us know it. People think they're in a movie and identify perhaps with a slew of heroes and anti-heroes they have seen on screen. It doesn't occur to them that many of these fictional characters are intended as depictions of utter toerags. It's because the camera and crew flatter, and they are played by rich movie stars and 'role models', lol.
So, because people don't have a clear idea of the distinction between fiction or fantasy and real life, having failed to learn to read or think or count at school, they model their behaviour on that of these virtual entities. It's quite simply because although their natural abilities are similar to everyone else's, they have become depraved.
I blame their parents,TV and our carp education system (which used to be all right if you were middle class).
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I think Lud's comments make more sense than anyone elses.
The only thing I would say, and this is speaking as someone who has lived in London but wasn't educated there; the point about education (and I presume Lud, you mean state schools, meaning that a state school in a nice area is generally not bad) is, I believe, true mainly in cities/ other urban areas. I genuinely believe that outside of large towns and cities, there are many decent schools in good and not so good areas.... speaking as a person from a solidly lower middle class background, my school was very good..... still is, in fact. Everything is exaggerated in cities, and particularly London. Which is why, as I see the world becoming ever-more urbanised, a large part of me wants to go and live in a field in Canada. : )
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The Mayor of London's road safety ambassador, Jenny Jones, says that "London has become a city where many drivers expect to break the rules and get away with it".
It's because they CAN "get away with it" that they think they can get away with it. There is not a single figure in that article about how many are caught afterwards. I take that to mean that very few are!
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And we are suprised at this? Huge numbers of legal and illegal immigrants without tax, insurance and probably valid driving licences are major contribuotors,
There's absolutely nothing in that story to suggest that the problem has anything to do with immigrants, illegal or otherwise.
You don't happen to read the Daily Mail, do you?
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I think the story sums up the lack of police on the streets to enforce all laws irrespective of anybodies nationality.
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No I don't read the Daily Mail. Just because something isn't mentioned in the Daily Mail it doesn't mean it isn't going on! How does an illegal immigrant even get to own, tax and insure a car and get a driving licence valid for driving in UK?
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Just because something isn't mentioned in the Daily Mail it doesn't mean it isn't going on!
I was making quite the opposite point. It's mentioned on a daily basis, apparently everything which goes wrong in this country is down to those pesky illegal immigrants.
And I'm sure there are illegal immigrants driving uninsured. I'm equally sure there are plenty born-and-bred Englishmen doing exactly the same thing. It makes me laugh when people, with no figures or proof of any kind, decide that hit-and-runs going up must be down to Johnny Foreigner.
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This government has created a drug-infested underclass with sufficient handouts to buy a car and an explosion in illegal immigrants from countries where life is worthless who can afford cars too. One has only to look at the people caught to see they all fall into one of thee two social groups.
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As the population increases by 500 illegal immigrants daily (BBC)
Interesting correlation even if not proven
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NO. The presence of these immigrants, illegal or otherwise, is contributing towards an increasing problem. If they weren't here there would be less of a problem, they are part of it but not the totallity of it, and if there were fewer of them there would be less of a problem!
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Nail on Head time - if there were less of us all, legal or illegal, there'd be less of all problems - doesn't really add a lot to the discussion though
As my old annoying teachers used to say - don't bring me problems, bring me solutions - still grates even now
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It's true that some people want to blame everything on 'immigrants' while some others feel that this attitude is xenophobic and probably racist, and bend over backwards to make excuses for foreigners.
The problem isn't foreigners or 'drugs', it's our own decadence. When foreigners take the mickey it's for the same reasons that we do (or some of us anyway). The law harrasses some people for little or nothing while letting other quite bad people get away with murder, literally and figuratively. Over-regulation and under-enforcement, very bad combination.
And by the way remember, immigrant-bashers, that crazed black teenage gunmen and half-witted Islamist human bombs are not usually immigrants at all, but second or third-generation British subjects. Immigrants themselves coming from places that are still quite a lot worse than this one (but for how long?) wouldn't dream of being so foolish. Of course there are exceptions. There are 60 million of us so far and no exceptions to any general rule would look a bit suspicious.
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Again, Lud, I couldn't agree more.
I think the Daily Mail references, which seem to inflame people, are because Daily Mail readers tend to see themselves as "a cut above" the tabloid readers. Economically and socially, they may be, but rightly or wrongly the more intellectual parts of the population see it as a reactionary, prejudiced but slightly better-written tabloid. It epitomises Little England, and fear of anything different or challenging. That's how liberal types see it anyway. Those who I will generically call Daily Mailers don't, or are unwilling to see, that as Lud says, it is OUR decadence and apathy that causes it. It's not those working-class/foreigner types peddling drugs at the school gates to our innocent, hockey-playing middle-class children, or whatever other self-indulgent nonsense they're blaming it on this week that cause trouble, it's OUR petty-minded attitude to smaller issues and unwilligness to look beyond our noses for the greater good that causes most of our problems.
A lot of what the upper-gutter press presents as fact is polished urban myth. For example, the example above of "peddling drugs at the school gates": sorry to break this to you, hysterical fragile parents of Toby and Jessica Teenager, but it DOESN'T happen. People get drugs from friends, and friends of friends. Or, they're "looking after them for a friend". Who hasn't used that line? : )
SOME people in a large population WILL cause trouble IF they're allowed to get away with it. We need to grow up and deal with that, whoever the troublecausers are.
And, back to motoring: please indulge my heartfelt rant, moderators.
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Stevied,
I read the Daily Mail. I do not see myself as a "cut above" anyone. You are trying to make the point that broad sweeping statements are wrong, then spoil it by making one. I temper my Daily Mail reading with other inputs from a variety of sources, and hope that I have the intelligence to filter the scaremongering from whatever source with other facts/opinions from other sources. I would have thought that most people would do the same.
As it happens, apart from the Daily Mail comment, I think that you and Lud are both on the right track.
The current government has, in my opinion, proved to be so hypocritical, inept, "sleazy" and generally discredited that any "incentive, initiative improvement programme" they announce has me, and probably many others weeping with despair or laughing at their stupidity.
Back to hit and run. The return of police patrols both on foot and on/in motor vehicles is probably the first step to reducing it. Until the offender is caught then what action can anyone take? It matters not where they originated.
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Yes, fair point about sweeping statements, mjm.... I tried to temper it with the comment "I will generically call them Daily Mailers" but, as ever, my writing lags about ten minutes behind my thinking. I think I am due for a software upgrade!!
You're spot on with the comment about return of police patrols. Even people seeing police about in their towns and villages gives a feeling of security, but it just doesn't happen any more. I was inordinately pleased a couple of weekends ago, when there was a couple of policemen on the beat in my town, and they were going into pubs, and talking to people in the square and suchlike. It's a shame that it's the exception rather than the rule, and i would bet my meagre salary that there was less trouble, and a better atmosphere in my town that night.
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Stevied,
Glad you replied.
I grew up in a small Cotswold town which had its own policeman and police station! He carried out his duties with due regard to his position. Any unrulyness from "us lads" and he became judge, jury, and administer of the required "clip round the ear!" You knew that worse would follow at home if you complained to the parents. Politically correct --- no. Effective policing --- yes.
Motoring link --- the occaisional silly parking by my grandfather would result in the said bobby knocking on the door and saying, "Wilf, can you move the car along a bit, you're blocking the bus stop?" No ticket, just common sense.
Happy days!
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police need to dish out form HO/RT1 (producer) like they used to in the old days, before told not to do it
and concentrate on 'No Insurance' offences.........easier to do nowadays because insurance data is now on the Police National Computer........
would solve a lot of the problems fairly quickly and would pick up a lot of other illegality too........but of course that would need the govt to diverte them/release them from their current 'priorities' so unlikely to happen.
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Quite right westpig. I didn't realise producers were being discouraged. Of course I never enjoyed being given one myself!
I hoped you would be along to bring some professional good sense to bear.
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Did anyone see the program 'car wars' on Weds night? It was very interesting, Manchester police have a big squad set up to do nothing but car crime. They justify it as the stolen cars are almost always being used for other, more serious crimes.
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police need to dish out form HO/RT1 (producer) like they used to in the old days, before told not to do it
Not much point if the producee has nothing to produce,adding 'failing to produce' to their other offences that they don't bother going to court for.
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