The main BMW dealership in my area has such a dismal reputation amongst some of its customers that it's even been the target of outrage in letters to the local newspaper.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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The main BMW dealership in my area has such a dismal reputation amongst some of its customers that it's even been the target of outrage in letters to the local newspaper.
What does Peter Tatchell have against BMW? Oh, I get it, the MINI.
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This is one of three Dealers we use regularly (including the Motorrad dealer who was superb and came in under budget), all three have a good reputation, especially the bike dealer. The good points on the visit were.
1. This dealer always advises me/us to fill up the washer bottle before paying a visit.
2. I was early for the "appointment" the car was dealt with straight away despite me being early, the car came back half a hour earlier than they predicted and benefited from a "bronze" valet (not charged but probably swallowed elsewhere in the invoice)
3. And the Female service manager fully explained the problem and overestimated the resulting bill by £30.00
4. I honestly did expect to be charged for the diagnostic and was happy that it was less than a neighbouring Vauxhall outlet dwon the road.
As I say slightly miffed - at least the airbag light is out now which is one less thing for the absent owner to worry about and complaining I have sold him an obviously duff car.
Perhaps I'll demand a brand new M3 tomorrow in compensation but without the optional cat flap.
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Point taken HJ, I wonder whether New Labour have thought of this a sort of PFI thing whereby Car dealers do operations in down times !
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I had a particularly decent experience with my BMW main dealer.
My 530i Sport was due an Oil Service, which I have had to have done at a main dealer to ensure the warranty is kept up. But the cheapskate student mindset means of course I cannot simply walk in and pay full price so I rang my local dealer and asked for a quote for oil service without the microfilter change. £190.
So I rang another branch of the same dealer. £150. I booked it in, and they told me they could do it while they waited. I also told them that I'd appreciate a quick check over of the common E39 faults such as the suspension bushes etc etc to make sure everything was fine.
The day arrives, I take the car in. Despite wandering into the dealer looking like... errr, a student.. I was still greeted in a professional manner by the guy in the showroom (You need to walk through sales to get to the service desk) who asked if I was ok. I handed over the keys, somebody immediatly went outside and fetched the car into the workshop. Sat down, had coffee, wandered around noseying at beautiful cars I can't possibly afford and 40 minutes later my car was ready.
All serviced, washed, vacuumed and a report saying there was absolutely nothing wrong with it at all and the suspension bushes were all just fine. Oh and sir, your bill - £135.
Now, you might think £135 is quite a lot for an oil service, which is it, but given it was done at a main dealer I'm mighty impressed both with the price and the fact they were curteous and professional throughout. I am far too used to dealers ignoring me and being short with me whenever I walk through the door..
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So in 40 mins the tech earned perhaps £7-00, the oil cost £15 and the filter £8-00 oh and the Coffee, 25p, say thirty quid, that's £100 gross profit for the dealership.
"Here is another nice young many we are going to fleece for £150 / hour so smile nicely in a curteous and professional manner even if he is is a scruffy student type ........... "
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Its not run by Nuffield or BUPA is it that dealer?
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Oh I agree Re: the price, but thats main dealer servicing for you really, isn't it?
And to be 'fair' it did take 6.5 litres of oil thats £45 for 4 litres in Halfords...
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Dheddar,
That made me laugh !
It wasn't my money so I shouldn't worry really, put into perspective on speaking to the Motorrad dealer in the summer, the kit does cost a fortune so I suppose they do have to recover the cost. Moaning about it later the perspective SWMBOd gave was I could have slipped the local indie a bung to get it done but at least the work carries a guarantee from the Delaer. The other perspective is how little this car has cost over it's life beyond the routine service and it;s still a cracking car to drive as solid as a rock as willing as it was when it was new not not a squeak from the interior. Lovely car for someone when BiL moves it on.
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Poo I must learn to type (and that glaring grammatical in the OP)
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at least the work carries a guarantee from the Delaer. >>
I do advocate the assurance that main dealer servicing offers though £135 for 40mins labour, oil and filter!
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So in 40 mins the tech earned perhaps £7-00, the oil cost £15 and the filter £8-00 oh and the Coffee, 25p, say thirty quid, that's £100 gross profit for the dealership.
Wonder what their net profit is though? OK, you can argue about the 'glass palaces' (I'm not a fan) but I'd love to know if these places really are the goldmines many people think they are. I suppose the difference with a BMW dealer (vs many others) is they also make money on car sales.
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miffed me was being charged £25.00 for the diagnostic check - which I know is a Laptop check plugged into a socket and takes 5 minutes
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in reply to pugugly : i wonder if you know how that compares with a solicitor's time charges ( don't they bill you per quarter hour even if thye take a minute to do the work ? - eg. my local solicitor charges £10 to certify a true photo copy of an original, he signs it and the office-junior stamps it - all takes less than a minute! ). :: ;-) ::
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Fair enough, I hadn't thought of that - what a bargain I've had !
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Dalglish,
You are so right. I feel guilty now, next person in tomorrow will get a freebie, I will wink and just say "Don't thank me thank Dalglish..."
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eg. my local solicitor charges £10 to certify a true photo copy of an original, he signs it and the office-junior stamps it - all takes less than a minute! ). :: ;-) ::
£10 is cheap - my local GP charges £25 !! That's over four hours of labour for someone on the minimum wage (before taxes). I daren't imagine what my dentist would charge - a very great deal probably, judging by the £2500 they wanted for a brace for my daughter's top teeth. But then I guess these are the guys that can afford BMW labour rates without blinking! All part of the 'dumbell-shaped' wealth distribution profile of our country.
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you can argue about the 'glass palaces' (I'm not a fan) but I'd love to know if these places really are the goldmines ...
.... by the time you have added the cost of business rates, rent, health&safety costs, public & staff liability insurance, buildings and contents insurance, water, heating, lighting, telephones, computers, software, training costs, garage equipment, cleaning & waste disposal, national-insurance, sick pay, holidays, pensions costs, etc. etc. .. ... ..
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>?.... by the time you have added the cost of business rates, rent, health&safety costs, public & staff liability insurance, buildings and contents insurance, water, heating, lighting, telephones, computers, software, training costs, garage equipment, cleaning & waste disposal, national-insurance, sick pay, holidays, pensions costs, etc. etc. .. ... .>>
My nearest National outlet charges £20 for an oil and filter change (it was £15 until quite recently for semi-synthetic) - presumably it has similar overheads?
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Wonder what their net profit is though? OK, you can argue about the 'glass palaces' (I'm not a fan) but I'd love to know if these places really are the goldmines many people think they are. I suppose the difference with a BMW dealer (vs many others) is they also make money on car sales.
Let's put it this way, as an independent you can make a damn good living. Franchised dealers make a lot more. Times are leaner than they used to be but they are highly profitable. In the 1980's one of my father's mates got a SAAB franchise and ten years later he was more or less a millionaire. Anyway, the 'big P' (AKA the 'creeping death') seem to be keen enough to take on dealerships.
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If main dealers are meant to be making all this money, how come
1. So few new dealers are opening up?
2. So many dealers are closing down?
Does that not suggest that they arn't making much profit?
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Does that not suggest that they arn't making much profit?
No - and Trevor Finn agrees with me. There is a move by many manufacturers to reduce the number of outlets - mainly by shutting down the small non-chain outlets which have traditionally given good service at reasonable prices but are not considered agressive enough or capable of making the annual investment in meeting 'manufacturer standards'. Aside from the manufacturer-owned outlets many dealers are actually part of large companies - Pendragon being the best known. Also a lot of the different brand dealerships you see congregated together in 'parks' by major roads are not actually in competition with each other, they are owned by the same company although they bear different names. Similarly someso-called 'independents' are now actually owned by the 'majors', although they keep the fact well hidden.
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Aprilia wrote:
>>In the 1980's one of my father's mates got a SAAB franchise and ten years later he wasmore or less a millionaire.
Sorry if I've remembered it wrongly, but haven't you said before that that wouldn't be possible these days?
I read the other day of a dealer selling one of its sites in North Yorkshire because they were made a good offer for the land. They said the site hadn't made money for them for years.
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Sorry if I've remembered it wrongly, but haven't you said before that that wouldn't be possible these days?
Yes, its a lot more difficult than it used to be. 15-20 years ago it was said in the trade that a 'prestige' car franchise was like printing money. That was before the likes of Motorpoint and Internet.
I read the other day of a dealer selling one of its sites in North Yorkshire because they were made a good offer for the land. They said the site hadn't made money for them for years.
Quite a few of the smaller dealers are no longer really wanted by the manufacturers and if they own their site they are selling up. Land values have got so high they can cash in and join all their retired dealer mates in Spain!
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My 530i Sport was due an Oil Service, which I have had to have done at a main dealer to ensure the warranty is kept up.
I didn't think you had to use main dealers anymore to maintain the warranty? The EC ruling of a few years ago said any VAT-registered garage can be used as long as they use genuine parts.
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Now, you might think £135 is quite a lot for an oil service, which is it, but given it was done at a main dealer I'm mighty impressed both with the price and the fact they were curteous and professional throughout. I am far too used to dealers ignoring me and being short with me whenever I walk through the door..
Astonishing, isn't it.? A 530D oil service is 25 mins book time labour. Cost to dealer of filter is about £3.50 and oil less than £2/litre. Gross Profit of over £100 and customer is very grateful for being treated courteously and not ignored!
Incidentally, the practice of quoting a price and then invoicing for less is an old one. My dad always used to do this. Quote £50 for a service and then charge £45 - customer is always thrilled. They're always very impressed by a 'free' wash and vacuum too, costs next to nothing if the YOPS (or whatever they have now) lad is doing it.
The other good one is when you change a timing belt always tell the customer the old one was on its last legs and about to break - then they never grumble about the bill and it encourages them to come in promptly for the next service. I always used to show them the old belt and bend it right back on itself - they will nearly always crack a little near the root of the teeth and you can say 'look! Wouldn't have lasted much longer, its cracking, good job you bought it in when you did!'. LOL! All good harmless salesmanship.
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Reminds me of a medical bill I picked up in the US, where there was a separate itemised charge for everything, including ?reading of X-ray?.
I had an x-ray done at a private hospital a few months ago. Also a charge for reading the x-ray on the bill, seems some legal requirement to have a consultant radiologist inspect them.
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Having lived in the US for a year I had the misfortune to tangle with their hospital system. One item I can still remember was $12 for a piece of rolled-up gauze in my mouth. Even the aspirin tablets were billed for at some crazy rate. They would charge for the light coming in through the windows if they could. This, of course, is the reason why tens of millions of Americans have no medical cover and why the US automotive workers are fighting so hard to get the companies to continue to pay their medical insurance (which is, of course, so expensive that it is now a threat to the survival of those companies). To have this benefit removed would mean a very grim future for some unfortunates.
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>>I always used to show them the old belt and bend it right back on itself - they will nearly always crack a little near the root of the teeth and you can say 'look! Wouldn't have lasted much longer, its cracking, good job you bought it in when you did!'. LOL! All good harmless salesmanship.
Everybody's happy then i suppose!
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its cracking, good job you bought it in when you did!'. LOL! All good harmless salesmanship.
Not harmless if it would have lasted another 50,000 miles, rather a con!
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Not harmless if it would have lasted another 50,000 miles, rather a con!
It might, or it might have snapped and cost the customer thousands. It's an interval change item, no harm in making the customer think it was worth changing.
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It might, or it might have snapped and cost the customer thousands. It's an interval change item, no harm in making the customer think it was worth changing.
Exactly. It just makes them feel better about spending the money.
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My nearest National outlet charges £20 for an oil and filter change (it was £15 until quite recently for semi- synthetic) - presumably it has similar overheads? ..
in reply to stuartli :
my short answer to your quesion is this - just as much as the savoy hotel in london has similar overheads to the travelodge in dundee ?
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As the legal profession was mentioned earlier this may put the £25 in to context. Civil Court case last week, I was a witness. No defence offered therefore judgement in default. Arrived in Court 11am, in front of Judge at 11.15am, out of Court by 11.20am. Barristers bill for this one Court visit - £275 +VAT.
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>> Not harmless if it would have lasted another 50,000 miles, rather >> a con! It might, or it might have snapped and cost the customer thousands. It's an interval change item, no harm in making the customer think it was worth changing.
IF it is due for a change then yes quite right, I would always change a cam belt earlier, better safe than sorry, I took the previous comment as a way of justifying an unnecessary change.
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I had an x-ray done at a private hospital a few months ago. Also a charge for reading the x-ray on the bill, seems some legal requirement to have a consultant radiologist inspect them.
Not a great deal of point having an X-ray unless it is viewed by a professional with the necessary training and experience to give a meaningful report?
Perhaps you meant to just a have a look at the film yourself? :-)
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Not a great deal of point having an X-ray unless it is viewed by a professional with the necessary training and experience to give a meaningful report? Perhaps you meant to just a have a look at the film yourself? :-)
Well this was a suspected broken bone, and, just as you may have experienced personally, or seen on TV, the doctor held the film up to light box and pronounced on it himself. In my case the whole thing, apart from actually taking the snap, was done by the same doctor. Each stage of the process he went through was itemised and charged separately. Plus of course there was a (whacking great) charge for taking the X-ray.
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>> Well this was a suspected broken bone, and, just as you may have experienced personally, or seen on TV, the doctor held the film up to light box and pronounced on it himself. In my case the whole thing, apart from actually taking the snap, was done by the same doctor.
I am no great supporter of private medicine or it's charging systems, however in 30 years as a GP I can assure you that it is not at all unusual for a non specialist overstretched A&E doctor to miss an obvious fracture, let alone somthing something more subtle.
I agree that a fracture should be easy to see, but it is wise - especially in this litigious age - to have the films checked by a radiologist as soon as possible.
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I had an x-ray done at a private hospital a few months ago. Also a charge for reading the x-ray on the bill, seems some legal requirement to have a consultant radiologist inspect them.
The radiologist has years of training to spot stuff that the non-specialist might not have done.
Anyway, you've got to be very rich before getting emergency treatment privately in this country makes sense!! Okay, an A&E is not a luxurious place to wait, but NHS emergency treatment is normally 1st class medically, and they've got far more capacity if anything goes wrong. Oh, and it would have been free, consultant radiologist or not.
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but NHS emergency treatment is normally 1st class medically, and they've got far more capacity if anything goes wrong. Oh, and it would have been free, .>>
NHS emergency treatment is 1st class , yes, though it is not free, we pay an absolute fortune for it in taxation. Free at the point of use perhaps.
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Rule 1 of business:
Revenue <> Profit.
V
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NHS emergency treatment is 1st class , yes, though it is not free, we pay an absolute fortune for it in taxation. Free at the point of use perhaps.
If you think NHS is dear you don't want to know about US healthcase costs. My retired aunt and uncle in Arizona pay around £2000 per month for basic private medical cover!!
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I remember when I first bought my first scooter when I was 17 years old, and the garage could never sort out the starting problem: basically it would take many turns to start in the morning. I rejected it and got my money back. Anyway, what is the point of having a garage if they can't sort out a problem with a bike?
Anyway, in my eyes poor customer care is unacceptable. The job is not being done if this isn't provided, and I think too many people have attitude problems! And the fact we are happy when we get service: it should be expected and not a luxury.
When I had employment with a badly run company, with poor management, poor customer care and a shoddy service (they delivered dust bins by the way), I was in credit control and gave everyone discounts on their bills. The management was unhappy, but I was a temp and knew I could get away with it. Revenge is sweet!
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But why ain't teeth and eyes included?
...and also, had a car accident in my youth (got in to trouble big time for that one, twas parents car), couple of weeks later, a bill lands on my doormat for the taxi ambulance ride to the hospital. £30 i think.
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...and also, had a car accident in my youth (got in to trouble big time for that one, twas parents car), couple of weeks later, a bill lands on my doormat for the taxi ambulance ride to the hospital. £30 i think.
There is a provision - I think under some Road Traffic Act but am not sure on that - for the first doctor who attends any road accident victim to charge a fee. Most often this is the hospital A&E, but it could be the local GP attending as part of a GP Accident Service, or even technically his/her own GP if they go to the the surgery, but we never bothered, too much hassle :-(
This fee is requested from the registered owner of the vehicle, and usually the insurer pays.
I don't know how often the fee is claimed, but it is certainly legitimate.
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I thought that's what taxation was for.
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It's one of those weird things about UK government finances, supposed to offset some of the cost to the NHS for treating RTA casualties!
£30-00 or whatever doesn't go very far compared to cost of almost any injury.
Probably like the old dog licence, costs a great deal more to collect than it is worth.
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It's one of those weird things about UK government finances, supposed to offset some of the cost to the NHS for treating RTA casualties!
"weird" read "unfair"
I understand the principle behind the thing, but then why didn't I have to pay when Mrs -O called an ambulance when I vomited blood Exorcist stylee? (this is rhetorical as I ain't any good at putting inflection in my typing)
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Anyway I delivered today - Client came in wanted a certified copy of his Passport. Waived the charge
with (what I hope was) an enigmatic smile and just said "this one's for Dalglish". He was dead chuffed and probably at home now thinking happpy thoughts about the legal profession.
Anyway had the 330 all day today before it will be collected tonight, picked up a guy on the way to a meeting, this guy has never commented about my last three 5 series, first thing he said to me was "nice car this one" You can't win.
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.. an enigmatic smile and just said "this one's for Dalglish". He was dead chuffed ..
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pugugly - thank you on behalf of the stranger you did the "good deed" for , you are a man of your word.
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