I completely sympathise with this issue. I've successfully rejected a car once and it was a lot of hard work. My only advise would be speak with consumer direct (trading standards) if you haven't already done so and inform the dealer that you've done this quoting their reference number, this might make them realise you are serious (no retailer likes the thought of trading standards after them). Your spot on in not using the vehicle.
Regardless of what the dealer says from your description of the repair it is not of satifactory quality and nor was the vehicle upon delivery. Don't let them get away with it, you have rights and you're entitled to use them.
Best of luck.
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Firsly IMHO you will have absolutely no chance whatsoever of rejecting the car and having that stand up in court. The car is mechanically sound and does as it should, how important 'looks' are will depend upon the car and the purpose.
I agree with that - if it goes to court the OP will look unreasonable, petty even.
OK it's your NEW car but you have to bear in mind that to many people it's just an item. Cars are frequently repainted before they even leave the factory, and more still on arrival in the UK. If you look hard enough you'll find paint faults (probably literally dozens of them) in any new car.
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Bodged repair?
I quote
"The paintwork is a good job"
The repair is not bodged, its clearly of satisfactory quality if even the aggrieved customer thinks so so lets be fair here.
The question is about wether a new car should have body defects repaired post sale and if they should be sprayed. There is plenty of case history to show that courts do not consider this to be a barrier to satisfactory quality under your statutary rights. IE in legal terms its not a strong enough basis to reject a car if repaired to "as new" quality
you need to rely on the good will of the dealer / maker here, you would loose this one in court. (if they chose to defend it)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Okay all,
We have a result, well sort of.
The dealer has contacted me this morning and mentioned (a "this is between me and you comment" was made) that their hands were tied when I first flagged up the problem and that they wanted to try and fix it and see how far they could take it. They've agreed that bodywork repairs are now unacceptable on a new car and thus as a good will gesture want to provide one of the following options:
a) replacement new car within two week but comes with the £400 of extras that I would have to pay for!!!
b) replacement new car but would have to wait 3 months.
Asked them throwing in the £400 of extras as a good will gesture but they said offering their replacement car is the good will gesture!!!
I'm happy to accept a replacement but don't want the extras or the wait.... what do I do? I actually asked for a full refund in the letter.
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take the 3 month wait, that way you can use the original car for that 3 months and pile on the milage etc
that will save you paying for a service so soon
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Presumably the £400 extras are on a car that is in the supply chain, the £400 will be retail price of the extras, perhaps offer to meet them half way on the extras, i.e. £200, which should cover their costs.
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I'd wait 3 months if I could have use of the original car. If not, do a deal on the £400.
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no way keep original car any longer than necessary,what if it gets scratched etc
supplying dealer being very understanding take the £400 hit on a card and you may come to enjoy the extras
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That's a good point oldman, what would happen if you had a prang? I think I'd take a new one straight away on reflection. On the other hand, is the offer of a substitute an admission that they had it wrong and so could you argue for your money back? I think I'd want to go to another manufacturer or certainly another dealer.
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Personally I'd take the immediate deal £400.00 seems resonable to pay really (you'd pay that to rent a car for a month). A lot can change in three months.
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The dealer principle told me (offline) that they tried to contact the manufacturer to help out after the resprray owrk but because they had re-sprayed the damage the manufacturer has thrown it back at them.
I really don't see what I should pay the extra £400. After all, they have lied to me on numerous occations and cause me no end of worry and hassle.
Persoanlly I think the dealer is cacking themselves.
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It looks like you have come to your decision ffvrs - good luck - let us know how you get on in 3 months or if they wave the £400.
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stand back and fully appraise the situation they have cocked big time and have put all the cards on the table and offered you everything they can,remember they are on their own (no manufacturer backup and a car that has you as owner in log book that they have to sell )consider the next potential purchaser rings you up to see why you had car for 4 weeks only and what your response would be.
take the offer while its still there it could be withdrawn put the £400 on a card if you have to everybodies learnt from the experiance and mistakes have been made............its life mate...........i got screwed yesterday by a customer .........ive moved on.
sorry
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What exactly does the £400 of extras consist of?
If it's something like an upgraded stereo and alloys, tell them to put them back into stock and supply standard ones that should come with the car in the first place.
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a cd changer head unit and a front armrest.
they said the extras could no be removed.
I think they want the extra money to cover their loss on the duff car e.g. cost for respray.
I said I would wait for 30days but they said no way. Take the options or not.
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I said I would wait for 30days but they said no way. Take the options or not.
Refuse the £400 marked up car and tell them that you will gladdly wait 3 months for the replacement other car. However during that 3 month time period tell them that you want a courtesy car supplied FOC. If they dont agree with that then make them a sensible offer for the £400 marked up car, but obvviously not for the full ammount.
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There is no such thing as a perfect new car, and if there was it wouldn't stay that way for long if it was used.
I can empathise with you as I also get irked by this sort of thing, and also that main dealers' usual idea of customer service is never telling the truth when a lie or a half-truth will do the job. Neverheless, I think you now have a real result - personally I would pay the £400 to close the issue asap and get on with my life, but if you don't want to do that then wait 3 months and get a new, and newer, car at no cost to yourself, but above all, move on - life's too short, nobody died, and you are giving yourself more grief than you are giving them.
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p.s. - I know you can think of 100 reasons to remain dissatisfied, but the above thoughts are well meant, and I don't mean to give offence.
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Absolutley - you have a result,
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Let me understand this - the OP buys a brand new car which is substandard (admitted by the seller.) The garage do a substandard respray job (against his express wishes).
They now offer him an exchange but expect him to pay £400 for extras that he doesn't want.
How is this a good deal? The seller is at fault here - not the OP. I wouldn't settle for this outcome, why be financially penalised for something that is not your fault? That said I'm more pigheaded than most - I'd spend the £400 on a solicitor - it would be a matter of principle to me that I should not be out of pocket for buying brand new goods which were substandard.
The OP is not at fault!
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where is the sub standard respray job?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I'm only suggesting how I would deal with it - a personal view.
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Me too - sorry if above reply sounded abrasive. It just seems very unfair to buy brand new goods which any reasonable person would feel falls below a reasonable standard. To then be expected to pay to "put things right" seems wrong.
I have a conflict of interest in that I bought a 2 year old car advertised with "full service history" from a main dealer, when I got home I found that service records indicated that services had been missed. I posted on here I think and got various views - some saying I should have not assumed the advert was correct and checked the service history myself.
In the end I took legal advice (free thanks to home insurance) which concluded I could reject the car (there were varying views on here, I think). I'm now very glad I stuck to my guns and rejected the car and got full refund - I now have a car that I'm happy with, I'd always have been suspect about the original (something I suspect applies to the OP). I just think that the law must be on the side of the OP here and if it is he should stick to his guns and reject the car. The peace of mind later will likely be worth it.
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£400 will be retail price of the extras, perhaps offer to meet them half way on the extras, i.e. £200, which should cover their costs.
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As posted above: unless the extras are useless, I'd take the offer. But this time I'm sure OP will check over the car before accepting it:)
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Thanks 'ajsdoc' I like your atitute.
The dealer thinks their good will gesture is by the fact they are offering to replace my car but hey, come one, they have messed me around so much to date. The least they could do is absorb the £400 and give it to me for that. After all, they are the ones making the BIG mistake by going against my wishes - they knew perfectly well what they were doing - they thought I would not notice the repair.
I've already told them the optional extras aren't worth anything to me thus I would have bought them first time round.
They said my other option is to wait 3 months and they'll give me some base level Polo to run around in till mine arrives. Three long months... that's like next year before I see a new car and they are still gaining interest on my money during this time.
I also didn't like the way of being pushed to spend the extra £400 and that I needed to choose soon or the car may be unavailable.
I gave them the option of 30days to get another car but they said they can't get one, there are no more of my spec in the country so it's a factory order.
I'm going with my gut feeling again and will push the rejection for full refund.
When I first bought this car I pushed myself the extra £400 just because they said they were a local dealer and that they would give me the better customer service than that from an internet company. So far I beg to differ.
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Can't they find another one another dealer ?
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"Three long months... that's like next year before I see a new car "
Thats right, your replacement car, with a full warranty, will be a 2007, more valuable than your current 06 model. TAKE IT!
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I personally think that you're shooting yourself in the foot by not accepting their offer, I don't think you have any legal grounds to reject the car and if they decide to contest your rejection you might be stuck with the car that you don't want.
When I worked at Ford only one customer ever successfully rejected a car after we were totally unable to get the paintwork to look right on it, the only solution would be a full body respray which we weren't prepared to do so we stuck them in another Mondeo and sold their's as a nearly new model. As the car was clearly at fault we didn't dispute the rejection. In your case you would struggle to show that the car wasn't as good as new (bear in mind that "new" does not mean the car hasn't been resprayed at the factory or dealer, simply that it is unregistered and, hopefully, unused for test drives etc.)
My personal opinion would be to just accept either one of their offers and move on from it or it will eat you up inside and you will not be happy with your car until you get rid of it.
Blue
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Yes, the key thing to remember here is that the car was painted to repair a fault that shouldn't have been there at manufacture - not to repair a bodywork paint defect.
I'm disputing the fact that they have painted the car against my will. I sent them a letter with the agreement that this would not be done. They didn't reply and thus we take this as their agreement. They continued to re-spray regardless.
The car with £400 of options, yes, a nice offer but I shouldn't have to pay extra for it.
3 months wait, I didn't have to wait this long for my car initially when I ordered it. They told me at the moment of sale that a chap in their department could source any car, at any spec, within a short period. It's just too long to wait, and for them to give me some poxy bottom of the range Fiesta sized car. What's wrong with a loan Golf, after all, they still have my 18k.
I wanedt them to source my car within 30days - they said they can't. These were the folk that said I could reject the vehicle and that the repair was satisfactory.....
Who's being un-reasonable? Who?s being slimy?
(I know it's poor to look so far ahead but) What happens if the replacement car arrives and it's still not of acceptable condition - I have to wait for a further 3 months for another?
I'm 80% expecting that if I decline their offers they will rescind these offers and tell me to get lost. If this is the case, as someone suggested, I?d be better to spend my £400 on a solicitor and get them to assist in this situation.
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I warned them to source my car within 30days -
Warned, or asked politely?
Who's being un-reasonable?
You, if it actually was the former.
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£400 on a solicitor - yes of course ! (joke) - my advice is based on what I'd do if it was me.
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Dave, I meant 'wanted' - I've not threatened them yet. Probably not even that harsh, 'asked' more like.
I've been quote £350 from a local solicitor.
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So you can spend £18,350 to get your money back (to go and buy a car with) or £18,400 and get a new car and £400 worth of extras? Bear in mind that this won't get to the Fast Track at the County Court - it's strictly Small Claims only because of the amount in dispute, so you can't force the other side to pay your legal costs.
You might well be in the right and be entitled to your money back (although not necessarily if the repair is of satisfactory quality - which is a question of fact about which any comment would be speculation if we haven't seen it) but the amount of inconvenience, lost sleep and so on that you're brining on yourself is entirely disproportionate to the size of the dispute. Alternatively you might not and the £350 might leave you back where you started, given that a solicitor's letter will put the other side's back up and they'll have a couple of weeks in which to set out their response before you can begin pursuing it.
Pick your battles. Don't go back there for servicing, ever, if you want, don't buy your next car from these people, fine, but know a pyrrhic victory when you see one.
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agreed, why line the pocket of a Solicitor (mind you they have to eat, drink and buy nice cars :-) )
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You stick to your guns ffvrs, I wish I was a car salesman and all the others telling you to accept it were my customers, how easy a life it would be - they buy an 18k car, you supply them a lemon, apologise, give it a dusting with the spray gun and they are all happy!!!!
If I had spent the amount you did on a "New" car I would be expecting it to be perfect, If I had wanted a below standard, 2nd class car then that is what I would have ordered.
Hope it works out in the end.
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They've buckled once, they can buckle again.
I want a new car, I'm not prepared to wait 3 months for it since my initial order only took two weeks. They won't strip out the extras seeing as they're dealer fit options, not factory options. They are so daft.
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TU, he has been offered a new car - but he still wants to make a fight of it.
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of course!
because their offers aren't suitable - one, it costs me more money and the extras are pointless to me, the other means I have to drive round in a crap car for 3 months while they get interest on my 18k - they want to win both ways.
Sure I'm gladly accepting the offer of a new car but want some negotiation on the delivery times. They say they cannot find the car in a shorter period so who's problem is that? - When I bought the car new without checking on stock availability they told me they could get a car in 4 weeks!
Alternatively all they have to do is absorb the £400, put it down to experience and I'm happy.
They are seeing how far I can be pushed.
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Why dont you ring up another dealer and ask them to quote you a lead time on your precise configuration ? Might give you some idea of whats what.
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a good point, I never thought of that I shall do this.
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you know why they are making me wait three months - the new shape comes out next year, thus my shape will be much cheaper in price - they can get a better deal on it then ;-)
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Why not ring another dealer to test the water and see if they can source the model you want and what would be the delivery time.
There are acres of VWs outside Grimsby. Couldnt say whether the one you wanr is there though.
--
Fullchat
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ask someone on the urban exploration forum and they might bob in and have a look
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New Golf is due 2008 actually, I think.
"I have to drive around in a crap car for three months"
Yes, but at the end of that three months you get a new car, which is newer than the one you had and has less miles on it. It should be perfect (you can't go around in life worrying about what happens if it's not perfect) and if it's not you can have it put right. Simple.
It's not like they're asking you to come out of a Porsche and into a Corsa, is it? It's a Polo for three months while you wait for a Golf, and probably not even three months (I was quoted twelve weeks and only waited nine).
I'm not being flippant with you - I used to drive a Polo and now drive a new Golf, which also had paint problems which were sorted. Life's too short to be spending this sort of effort, really it is.
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hi, sorry if i touched a nerve there on the Polo front ;-)
it's just principle that i'm having to wait three months after this ordeal.
I'm thinking of meeting them half way on the extras as my final gesture as those items are not what I orginally wanted for my car.
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I'm thinking of meeting them half way on the extras as my final gesture as those items are not what I orginally wanted for my car.
>>
At last seeing sense !
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lol - only because i want a quick end to it and I'm seeming to negotiate on both options. If they decline, then I have no option but to continue to reject.
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oh well, recieved my replacement car today.
I inspected prior to acceptance and its not perfect but its much better than the first one I had and 'it's not been resprayed'. Seems like all Mk5 VW Golfs have inperfect door alignment. Since I actually like driving the car I'm prepared to live with it.
the extras I've paid for a nice so that was a bonus. Managed to negotiate VW down £200 so I only have to pay £200 in total (instead of £400).
happy days
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Next time, if you still like VAG cars, go for a Skoda or a Seat. You will get the same running gear, your expectations will be lower and you will consequently be more satisfied with your purchase. Have a good holiday with the change from what you would have paid for the VW badge front and rear. Result: a double improvement in your quality of life.
659.
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thanks for that but my previous car was in fact a Skoda Fabia VRS. I rejected that one as it had a major engine defect and also effect a majority of VRS's in existance. Numerous other aspects put me off concerning the build quality so I departed from ownership of it. Just goes to show, no matter how much you spend you will never get perfection :-(
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Could you tell us what this defect is on the majority of Fabia vRs's? It's the first I've heard of it.
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hi, the main reason for my rejection was the engine idle issues, so bad the engine was trying to jump out of the engine mounts 'as quoted by the cheif Skoda technical person' and physcially shook the car something terrible. They fixed the issue by advancing the engine timing but this introduced an accelerator pedal vibration that couldn't be fixed no matter what was tried.
The second fault which was cured was a hesitation issue which occurs when backing off and back onto the throttle - it stutters. They actually fixed my car by installing a different gasket in the EGR valve but I believe loads of folks on the a popular Skoda forum are still battling with their dealers for a fix.
My brothers friend has the same sorts of issues and is getting no where with the dealer or rather is living with it until the dealer sorts it out. Personally, I won't stand for it and prefer to stamp down and get it remediated as soon as possible.
Other defects include: seat material furring up at the edges, poor finish to the paint work on the bumper.
Big shame, as it was a nice drive.
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"prefer to stamp down and get it remediated as soon as possible."
You aren't John Prescott , by any chance?
;-)
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Seems like me you need to buy Honda or Toyota if you are that particular about quality issues.
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Or buy second hand, and then the £6k you would save - by buying one that has done 10k miles and had a good dose of 'CarNuSpray' to make it smell nice - would go a long way to making you happier.
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