...to buy and run a reliable car for less than £100 a month? This to include depreciating the purchase price over 12 months and one tank of petrol a month. (obviously talking old banger for occasional 2nd car use here)
Two 30-something drivers, both max no claims, car garaged overnight, good area, no DIY servicing....
My other car is a BMW etc
(and sorry, fellow Backroomers, to have been away so long)
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"no DIY servicing...."
To me that says: no.
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A tank of petrol is around 30 to 40 pound.
This leaves a total of 720 to 840 pound for depreciation and servicing.
A worst-case service could be in the order of 300 to 400 pound.
This leaves 320 to 540 pound to cover depreciation costs.
Either buy a 500 pound car. Anything you make back when you sell it on will be a bonus. Or take the risk of spending a little more, say 1500 to 2000. But you may still take a hit when you sell it on, unless you pick up an absolute bargain, or keep the car for 3-4 years. . .
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Rebecca,
In my opinion, yes it is - given an element of good luck, ie. no hefty unexpected repair bills on a car which you can't get cheap spares for.
I've always had one decent new/newish car + another which I use for running about. I do a bit of home maintenance, but not as much as I did and use a reliable, honest private mechanic who charges about £20 an hour.
Expenses are estimated at.........
Insurance 150
Tax 150
1 service a year (parts/labour 50
MOT 25
Repairs estimated at 50
Tyres/wiper blades/odd bits & pieces 80
Petrol @ £40 per month 480
This adds up to £985
There's not much scope for depreciation admittedly, but when you run a 1987 Maestro and only pay £500 for it in the first place, you reckon on having it, say 5 years and still getting £100 for it (with an MOT) this equates to £6. 60p a month - and I'll live with that.
You might want to add Breakdown cover to the above, but as you see, with a bit of luck you might just do it.
Regards,
KB.
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Is it possible?... In theory I?d say yes!
My budget would be as follows:
Fuel £35x12 £420
Tax say £100
Insurance £150
That leaves £530 of the annual £1200. I?d split that 50/50, keep half for repairs etc.
Remaining budget for car £265 - What to buy... that?s the big question. I?m sure DW would suggest a 1980?s VW Polo a wise choice from a wise man.
I?d be tempted by a Vauxhall Cavalier (my favourite banger) or perhaps a Nissan.
Where?s Richard Hall? He should be your guru really.
Best of luck - you?ll need it!
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This is sort of how I justified (to my sef) my latest aquisition.
I have bought a twenty year old ex-military airportable (lightweight) Land Rover. You can get them for about two grand, and I think that if serviced and correctly looked after i.e. not "run into the ground", it will be worth the same if not more when (if) I come to sell it. Parts are dirt cheap, maintenance is easy and the whole thing is built like a Meccanno kit. It is actually made to be stripped down. Insurance fully comp for me and spouse, unlimited mileage is only £84, tyres are £35. Amortise the two grand over the next thirty years (the Series Ones are now 50 yrs old) and it seems a bargain. Down side it is thirsty, but it is such fun to drive.
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Graham. It is very cheap, but a lot of people buy a car to travel from place to place.
Not sure the awesome 43mph flat out speed fits that remit! ;-)
I'm off before people start shouting burn the heretic...
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Burn the heretic...
I've even taken to travelling the 110 miles to work in it (I stay away during the week) and as it is along the M25/M4 it takes no longer than my other proper cars. But the fuel.....
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Just about possible given a fair wind and minimal servicing requirement. Using the Citroen Visa I bought for my daughter last May as an example, this is how it has panned out in round figures from June 1 when it was taxed up to date. The car has the 954cc engine so gets cheap road tax and it is one of the few Visas that runs on unleaded without adjustment. It had done about 57K when bought and has done around 10K since then as a general runabout and for low-cost trips to Scotland twice (900 miles each time). It had 12 months MOT.
Purchase cost 250
Two new Pirelli 1000s 60
DIY oils/filter/plug changes 30
DIY brake pads with OEM 30
Road tax 105
Insurance 21yr old 400
Total 900
On your £100 a month that leaves £325 for petrol or about 4,000 miles of mixed motoring. It returns just 50mpg plus on a gentle motorway cruise but is down around 37-38mpg in local motoring betwen villages and in town.
However, take £250 off the insurance for a good record and you have that for petrol money or for cheap professional servicing.
What you have is shabby chic; no one else around here has a Visa (not even a diesel which might be bought for similar money). Apart from a slightly dented front wing which will rust out in a couple of years despite some DIY treatment, the car is remarkably presentable when given the very occasional wash. The clutch adjustment is reaching its maximum but I would anticipate it could be kept running for a few more years without major expenditure other than an eventual clutch replacement.
The difficulty is in suggesting another car that would give a similar possibility. I have just spent £250 on a Rover 213 for a relation. This has 12 months MOT and is taxed for seven months. It has had a new exhaust for the MOT, cheap tyres with maybe 5K wear left, but needs an oil and plug change tune-up. It had some welding done on a sill for the MOT and rust will be the bugbear for this car over the next 2-3 years. The interior is generally good but the roof lining is a slightly mildewed replacement from a scrapper. In principle, it could also do the job for him as he will probably do no more than 4-5K a year in it. However, his total lack of knowledge about cars and his long distance from any friendly advice means that he will be in the hands of mechanics for anything untoward.
It all boils down to the image you want to project and choosing the right vehicle. My possibles checked before buying the Rover were: 1986 Honda Accord (£395, very clean in and out, oily engine); 1979 Opel Kadett (£100, 60K miles, no exhaust or MOT but some classic potential); Citroen LNA (£300, 45K sold to 1st viewer); Talbot Samba (£295, 60K, noisy tappets); Talbot Sunbeam (£150, 2 months MOT, total heap); Renault 9 auto (£295, 63K, very good nick, should have bought it instead of delaying to look at another and lost it). Near any big town, there will be lots in the sub-£500 bracket but few are truly roadworthy or have a decent MOT. A long hard look will throw up the gems, however. There really are little old ladies and gents out there who will part with their well-cared motors for very little money because they are no longer needed by them or desired by the majority of buyers.
Sorry to go on. Hope that helps.
David
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David
One downside - I wouldn't want want my daughter driving round in a Visa in case an accident occurred. They are very lightly built and there is a big risk of major injury.
Not just Visas, although I'd rate them worse than most; this is an issue to be considered in any 'banger' purchase.
Regards
john
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John
Of course, you are right. I would much rather she had taken over the 1988 SAAB 900 I had at the time, or even the 1986 Honda Prelude she was driving as a named driver until insurance renewal time. Harking to other threads, it doesn't really make sense that the cost of insurance means that young drivers inevitably end up in cars that are smaller, lack modern safety advantages, and are possibly fragile. Land-Rover on classic insurance possibly excepted.
David
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I've done it, but only with DIY servicing. Typical example - Mk2 Golf, bought for £500, sold for the same, petrol £400, tax £175, insurance £250, budget £100 for tyres/exhaust/battery (you'll need to replace at least one of these during the year unless you get really lucky) - that takes you to £925, and a cheap garage might just do you a full service for £125. That leaves £150 for breakdown repairs, but unless you are extraordinarily lucky, you'll spend more than that sorting out the faults the previous owner didn't fix. I usually reckon on sinking around £250 into an old car in the first month I own it (on parts alone) but I'm buying reliability for my money, and I 'm probably a bit more fussy than most people about having a car that drives A1 in all respects.
Tax exempt classics? Probably not an option if you can't do any DIY, but a Triumph Herald or Morris Minor 1000 looks appealing for minimal cost motoring - zero depreciation, zero road tax, £100 for fully comp insurance, and cheap parts. Like any old car, they are more reliable if used regularly - I did 20,000 miles in my second Herald, and it never left me stranded.
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I run two cars, Fiat X/19 F reg on a classic policy, Fiesta 1.1 D Reg on my normal insurance policy so I save on the insurance. The Fiesta bought from a man giving up driving had 16000 on the clock two years ago when I bought it, like new and only £800. I replaced the original! tyres, diy service, new pads and service bits so far cost me £200 including MOT's. It's now up to 29000 miles, cruises at 80 on the motorway is totally reliable and returns over 40MPG. Uses unleaded petrol, has no cat or fuel injection or complicated bits to go wrong. No street cred but it's cheap and I can pose in my X/19 when it's running but that's a different story!
I suggest you go for a pre cat car and spend a little bit more. If you want durability buy an old Volvo or Golf although the Fiesta probably will be cheapest to service. Good luck.
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Nice one, Martin
There is a tendency on this forum to deride very low mileage cars but I wonder if the older, less complicated technology of the pre-ECU and cat era isn't more able to cope with the short journey and low usage drawbacks that are quoted.
Re the X/19, there was a 27K miler came up for sale round my way last year and was sold very quickly before I got a sniff at it. I always liked the look of them despite the lack of a 'hairy chest' image.
David
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Its possible but you will need a bit of luck.If you are buying a banger take your time and you will come across some real bargains and some dross.Look for New MOT and evidence the car has been looked after -receipts for services/tyres e.t.c.
One point to think about is the cost of scrapping a vehicle currently £50 but rumoured to increase to £250.
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Rebecca,
Most of the good advice has been given already.
I'd just mirror you query to an answer I gave on another thread a while ago, this refers to our purchase of our "pocket money" Polo to use as a second car. We were thinking of a very similar budget to yours.
Anyway this was my post........
"...........I think you paid too much for one with a great deal wrong. You have ended up with a rolling restoration.
As a comparison we've just bought an '89 Polo Ranger from a pensioner for a few hundred pounds. In the last six months it hs had new pads/discs/brake cyls/cambelt/water pump/plugs/air filter and fuel tank.
It is all about buying a car at the right time in the repair cycle. (Thats why it is often better to buy a Citroen Xantia, for example, at 80K than 65K)
Also getting the right person to look after it. If you're a student then a mate or your Dad is the best person to avoid labour charges. You mentioned a while back paying £200 for brake discs/pads/rear cylinders to be fitted. Carefully bought the parts for that lot would be less than £50. The fitting charge you paid is a great deal of beer money."
Depreciation is hard to quantify with budget cars. One moment they are a cherished good little runner, the next they're scrapped.
I have a customers car here today which is a perfect example of what you need. A 1994 Fiat Tipo 1.4ie S 3-dr. Very smart metallic red with no blemishes or rust (they're galvanised), quite sporty interior trim, power steering, electric windows, 70K recorded, pretty complete history. Decent sized car that can be cheap to run. This car was given by an uncle to a lad in his family as a first car because he was offered daft trade in prices when changing recently. It has a trade value of around £400! Stupid when a similar Golf may happily be retailed by a dealer for over £2K.
Good luck with it anyway.
David
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Thanks very much for all these replies. Over a year ago now, we sold our 2nd car (Citroen ZX) because it was hardly getting any use, and my brother (who bought it) was desperate for a car. My Husband drives a van (Berlingo) for work, the BMW is my company car. The real problem is the fact there's only one passenger seat in the van, so we can't use it for ferrying our 2 kids about. Lately the times when a 2nd car is needed have become much more frequent, we are spending a fortune on taxis, and are already relying on friends to help us out more than we'd like. So that's what has prompted my question. Also having moved recently we have space to put it in the garage.
Street cred for this hypothetical car wouldn't be too much of an issue. I like the 'classic car' idea but wouldn't have thought that was possible with a small budget. I will have to look at the car ads a bit more closely. There also seems to be a massive element of luck involved which is a bit of a worry. Where do you find these pensioners who let their preloved cars go for a song?
Had to smile at the suggestion of a Fiesta (my first proper car - not counting the Jeep), not that I wouldn't get one again, and mention of the X/19 - because my Mum used to have one. She went from a 126 to the X/19, and on the odd occasion that she took me to school I used to make her drop me off round the corner because I thought it was too flash.
I will have to ask around my friends to see if anyone is a closet car mechanic who could help with this.
Thanks again, guys.
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"Where do you find these pensioners who let their preloved cars go for a song?"
Rebecca
It takes patience and you won't find them advertising in Autotrader or the internet. Our Visa was in a newsagent's window card and had belonged from new to a lady who gave it to her grandson who decided it had no street cred and got rid of it.
Look in local papers and windows and (in my view) avoid pursuing anything that might have been a company car (typically Fords, Vauxhalls etc) to cut down on wasted journeys. Favour cars the owner has had for at least several years, use extreme prejudice in judging the net worth and/or class status of the seller on the telephone (Rottweiler barking in background etc), ask if it is garaged or who services it.
On looking at the car, apart from usual checks around engine, bodywork and interior, favour those with quality branded tyres or OEM/quality oil filters which indicate no-expense spared maintenance. Is there a handbook still in the glovebox (Hondas, SAABS and Citroens generally have them) and has the owner kept receipts for servicing? Another rule I use (but broke this week when buying a Rover 213) is to avoid any car that has had an aftermarket spoiler, flared arches or wider tyres. First aid kit or fire extinguishers (not with roll cages, though) suggest a thoughtful owner.
These are things which might help the non-mechanically minded to avoid a heap. Don't be afraid to keep walking away for a few weeks until the right vehicle comes along. These cars do exist and are available cheaply because the owner has held on to them for too long for the normal trade to be interested in them.
It gives you a warm feeling when you get it right and you don't lose too much if it turns out to be a mistake. Currently, the scrappers are taking vehicles for nothing if you can drive them there.
Good hunting.
David
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Excellent response to Rebecca's enquiry. Tips there for us all.
Rebecca, in answer to where to find these bargains, it sometimes crosses my mind that a long weekend spent in Worthing or Eastbourne might be worthwhile. Nothing against the south coast, but possibly a higher chance finding a gently driven, well looked after, garaged, run of the mill motor.
KB.
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Well as I live on the south coast I won't have too far to go to find the gentle drivers...
Thanks for the tip.
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I'll admit to being lucky, but we just bought a '90 Mazda 323F GT for £1k. It had been lovingly cared for by a lady owner (who cried when we agreed the sale!) and is immaculate inside and out. Even the pop-up headlights work as they should.
The non-GT edition of this, which was more common, was popular with, um, older drivers, and there seem to be plenty around in good order. I know HJ will advise against anything this old, but my partner is chuffed to bits with it, and I expect it's more reliable than a new Renault Laguna...
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