As stated this week,1 in 15 car owners have no insurance,therefore no road tax and if necessary no M O T. any comments on how it can be stopped.
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Bar code on the tax disc, bar code scanner on petrol pumps. No valid reading, no fuel.
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Could this bar-code reader be fooled by copying a mates tax disc on a scanner and leaving the copy in your car to scan and thus get your petrol?
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Perhaps a hologram then. Should be easy enough to read electronically, impossible to duplicate without expensive equipment.
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who is going to pay for the machine that reads these holograms/bar codes?
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Could easily be stopped with better information sharing, I think there is a new computerised MOT system coming on line soon.
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Careful HJ, Tom's idea no good for me (OR YOU) as I have a Trade policy allowing me (and wife) to drive any car. I (AND YOU) would have to queue at post office every time we change cars. Also everyone buying a car would be "illegal" till they had queued at post office. At present you can arange insurance over the phone. What happens on Sunday when post office closed.
Also what happens if you want to buy a can full for the lawnmower?
Steve is right. person is insured, not car.
This needs more thought.
Frankly there are too many laws already.
Pete, police already have the power to stop any motor vehicle at random.
The answer may be to put more police back on the roads instead of cameras, and increase the penalty to someting REASONABLE, not mandatory prison as this is unfair to the honest citizen who has just made a mistake.
Where I live, muggings are more of an urgent problem than uninsured drivers.
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Tom's idea is simple and brilliant. But the government can't even run its own motor related websites.
HJ
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Yes, some people in gov have some bright ideas, but then some people in gov are absolute arses! You could easily bar code the tax disc and Cameras could make a check when they id you reg plate to see if you have a current valid tax disc, they just need to syncronize the computers. Also the check could be made at point of MOT, in fact why don't MOT stations become the point of car Tax purchase, along with the certified and valid MOT certificate? They already have to have a certain status as a test centre, so push it a little further.
p.s what is the current charge for driving without a valid tax disc and or MOT and insurance. What happens if your car is simply parked without the tax disc, but is on the highway?
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A similar idea was suggested before but slightly different.
Problem with having a bar code on the car is that the car is not insured, its the driver.Plus anybody has acess to a flatbed scanner these days so fraudualent discs could easily be created. The solution would be to have smart cards with your photo/driving licence/insurance details on it. No valid smart card - no fuel
To stop tax/mot evasion you will need another smart card which relates to the car.
Big brother will be pleased with this !
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Why not abolish car tax, lump it on fuel, dispaly insurance discs in windscreen as they (used) to do in Ireland and follow the German way of including test certificates into registration plates. I know that Insurance, expired Tax discs and SORNs is now included on Police computers will the MOT go the same way?
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All good replies and suggestions.What about when stopped by the Bill,
if no insurance e.t.c. The vehicle is towed away the occupants are left to their own devices to find transport and the vechile is not released until a proper penalty is paid within a specific time.i.e.one month.
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wow, so let that be a warning. And i thought you just got a parking ticket if your tax disc has expired! They did used to do this, but perhaps that was many, many years ago!
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Perhaps it should be re-started Martin.
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if i were cynical i would say that the gov just want to find ways of screwing the tax payer!
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70.000 in prison Pug. Personally I don't mind if its 270,000 if thats what it takes to keep criminals from harming myself and family.
And (tonge in cheek)in this era of now privately run prisons I wouldn't object to the Government opening up the system to allow some of the east European countries including Russia to compete. A spell in Siberia or the Lubianka would be magic to rehabilitate our pampered criminals. At present about £500.00 per inmate per week in the UK. I imagine the Ruskies could do it for a tenner.
alvin
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obsurdly the penalty for driving without insurance is much lower than that of when driving without tax. Wonder why?
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Couldn't agree with you more Phil.
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danger of killing someone and being uninsured is less of an offence than not paying the gov £150 once a yr! nice to see their priorities.
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Law enforcement is laughable , the police must be allowed to stop cars at random to check for insurance , tax , licence. Put them on a bonus that puts pounds in there pockets and offenders will be reduced by 90% in 12 months. Offenders must have there car confiscated the proceeds put to wards the bonus system. If the car is not theirs a fine of two thousand pounds must be a minimum, it has to be at this level because that is the ball park for some first time insurance policies, for a bent young man it makes finical sense not to insure ,if taken to court (and most are not) a fine of low hundreds is the norm.
I have had a accident with a uninsured driver a young man with a ford Orion , he had no insurance , tax , or drivers licence , it never cost him a penny other than scrapping his banger.
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The orion cost £ 300
Insurance would be £ 1200
Potential fine for no insurance £ 250
Worth the gamble ? it seems so.
Maybe mandatory prison sentence would be the only real detterent ?
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unless you harm or kill someone without insurance, then surely you are going down? No matter how inadequate our legal system is!
or am i over optomistic and in fact you will get a £300 fine and a 6 month ban?
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Read Blunkett's latest edict on how full the Prisons are and how nobody should be sent down any more, From what I recall there is something like a 50 bed (aka cell) slack in the system at any one time.....
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So it can't be much of a deterrent, then! Compulsory removal of wheels may help, although half the time those are 'borrowed' anyway...
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there is only so much you can do to deter: prision, fines etc only go so far, some people are just willing to risk anything to drive that nicked or borrowed car. Most people caught are probably opportunist trying to save a couple of quid by not buying insurance, only a few are the hardened criminal types. Why not ban all uninsured people from driving on a sliding scale form, 1st offence (3 months) 2nd (6 months) and so on. Having your licence confiscated is a hell of a deteriant to almost anyone! Lack of insurance is on the face of it so much more socially and morally irresponsible than not having a valid tax disc, you can casue mayhem if you do not have basic 3rd party cover, but without tax you just rip-off Brown by £150.
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If they are prepared to drive without insurance, what would stop them driving without a licence?
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Our insurance is on the vehicle not the driver. When you line up annually to renew your reg you have to pass by the insurance desk first and pay your 3rd party liability premium before you get the registration stickers. Only govt approved insurance companies are allowed to transact business at the reg offices and the premiums are fixed by law regardless of age, driving record or anything else, and charged by engine size (car) unladen weight (truck). Insurance expires when registration expires. Stickers go on the front and rear license plates like the US. If you ain't got the right year's stickers means you ain't insured, so its easy for the fuzz to pick you out. Reg is simple, plates ending in 1 done in Jan, 2 in Feb and so on. Then if you want theft + comp cover etc that's something you do individually with an outside insurance company. Again it's the car not the driver (s) so you always pay the same. No NCB's however. Maybe that's too simple, but whatever, there has to be a better way than what I read above, in terms of administration, inconvenience and enforcement. Even better (grin) we don't have an MOT......
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THe Growler wrote:
> ......Then if you want theft + comp cover
> etc that's something you do individually with an outside
> insurance company. ......
I would buy into that system.
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I think the only real answer is a morals /society thing. Youngsters today are almost brought up with values that it's OK to flout the law. It starts with no lights on their bike and grows. If nobody bought stolen goods, there would be no market and little theft. How many have not been temped by 'cheap' second hand goods, car stereos for example? It will take all of us to take a stance and stamp this out over a number of years. The death penalty, where allowed, does not stop murder, and I do not think heavy penalties will stop the uninsured. They will have to want to be insured out of respect for their fellow human beings. Think how things have creeped over the years.
Mike
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>>Think how things have creeped over the years.
Especially insurance ! :-)
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MAKE INSURANCE CHEAPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes I am shouting
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I read an article in one of the weekend Daily telegraphs that said something along the lines of the government tax on insurance and the amount that is paid into the fund to cover uninsured drivers is a percentage of what the insurance company charge, therefore, those with high insurance pay more.. Which puts their premiums even higher... and they are more tempted to risk not paying. Start by changing these Government 'extras' into a flat fee rather than a percentage. Address the claims culture, problem etc. Just adding a more severe punishment is not going to help. Cure the underlying problem not the symptoms
If anybody can correct me on the above please feel free, I cannot remember exactly what was written in the article
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Richard found another hole in Tom's idea. Because Richard, me, or anyone else with an 'any car' trade insurance policy could simply use it to get tax discs bar coded with insurance which would not necessarily lapse when we sold the cars. Someone might have mentioned in an earlier thread that there is big trade at the moment in coupla hundred quid bangers with a year's ticket and rent. The vendor's trade insurance gets the rent disc. And the buyer has no intention of forking out another £1,500 or whatever for insurance. But because the car is taxed, law enforcers automatically assume it is insured.
HJ
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