As no one has posted about the spot on caravanners mentioned in last night's news, here goes.
It seems that caravanners are the mainstay of the tourist industry according to the Thursday 10 o'clock news. Wherever we land, the locals are much the richer for our visit. We arrive, we spend some dosh, we depart. The caravanner is happy visiting previously undiscovered corners of Britain. The locals are happy having wealth distributed among them. Seems the only unhappy ones are those who are being held up.
Maybe it's time for a change of law to allow caravans to travel at the same speed as other traffic. Most modern outfits are capable of a sustained 70 on motorways and 60 on main roads. Those that can't will self-destruct anyway in a kind of Darwinian survival of the fittest manner.
Easter is coming, there will be more white boxes on the road, like it or not. Until Mr Byers in his last 20 minutes of holding office makes caravan towing illegal during daylight, you will come across ever increasing numbers of caravans. Keep your cool, live and let live. If you are in the car 4 or 5 minutes longer than you anticipated over a 20 mile journey through travelling at 50 rather than 60, is it really that important? If it is, change your car for something with more poke so you can overtake, or leave earlier.
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Please don't encourage more people to start caravanning i have trouble getting on my favourite cl's sites as it is.
Van by the lake , fishing in the sun , barbie cooking , glass of wine , bikes
handy for the quite ride down to the village pub , the good life.
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Darcy
I must clean my hard hat too. I will be taking our "mobile road block" out soon, but never over Easter. I avoid the roads like the plague, at bank holidays.
A modern TD with caravan is easily capable of maintaining a decent cruising speed until it comes up behind a fish 'n' chip van.
I was going to get the barbie out this weekend, just to hone the beer/cooking skills - but not in this wind.
Ian
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"A modern TD with caravan is easily capable of maintaining a decent cruising speed until it comes up behind a fish 'n' chip van."
I have not seen a fish and chip van for years, I thought they had fallen foul of the nannies.
Chip shop fish had bones, and I preferred a pie supper - chips and Scotch pie done in the deep fryer, not politically correct but yummy!
Presumably either the van or the shop is useful for caravanners. I bet not many go on bicycles, though.
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If they are such good news why can't they have an MOT and pay road tax, like the rest of us? Perhaps a congestion charge would be in order? Many outfits may be capable of safe sustained 60mph motoring but an awful lot aren't! Chicken coops with windows, droning along behind underpowered cars, driving too close and thus preventing overtaking. Fun for some but not for all!
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Why should we pay road tax for caravans, Pete?
The difference in fuel consumption (towing vs solo) ensures that plenty of extra tax is paid. Work out a 1200 mile return trip to Scotland at 31mpg (towing) against 50mpg (solo) and then tell me I'm not paying enough tax.
Ian
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Darcy,
can't you just stay in a B&B instead? ;-)
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I use a very simple answer to the "nightmare" of caravans.
Gears, indicators, right foot.....sorted.
David
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PDP, have you seen the cost of B&B? At £20 a night, that's £280 a week for a couple. I can find decent caravan parks for £56 a week. Even allowing a tenner for bacon, using the caravan saves me £200 a week. As we're retired that's £3,000 over a full season. I know that depreciation and extra fuel have also to be included, but caravanning is still very cost-effective.
Many caravanners travel out of peak hours, or overnight, so if we all started using B&B, we would add to the peak congestion, not reduce it!
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If you're thinking of getting a caravan, my advice FWIW is to think long and hard. I got a Swift new, great idea for ultimate retirement and all that. True enough we had four good years out of it (it's very nice to have your breakfast there on a good morning) but then despite doing all the right things I was advised that it was terminally leaky and I had to get rid of it.
When I look at the cost of the thing, of the insurance and "service" bills, at the ferry charges, at the extra fuel bills and the wear-and-tear on the vehicle and last, but not least, at the parking charges at campsites - it just doesn't make sense to me. Outside the house, my van would take up a large piece of space, slowly turn green through the winter and of course when you take it away it's a pretty clear signal to the villains. When I worked full-time I just couldn't get the time away in it that you'd need to make it earn its keep. I suspect that it's a bit like a boat really, the dream just doesn't materialise for many people.
Most French campsites have their own "mobile" homes, deal with them direct, just phone them up - you'll have a decent holiday and keep your capital intact. I've found that the weekly charge for such a unit is not that much more than the cost of keeping a van there on a site with utilities, and you don't have to keep emptying the loo. In addition to that you can easily book ahead in their reasonably priced motel chains to get where you want to go.
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I'm surprised that you've not been blasted out of the virtual water Darcy, but before the onslaught occurs, I'll offer a bit of support.
Yes, there are occasions when a queue forms and the caravanner doesn't pull over to let those behind pass, and that's wrong. Yes, occasionally they flip over due to driver error or poor set-up and cause mayhem, and that's dangerous and shouldn't happen. But equally there are HGV's overtaking on long uphill stretches that cause problems, diesel spillages, cars, vans, lorries and bikes that have accidents and block the road and a million other reasons for delay. They're not the only things on the road that cause some delay.
I admit that I don't live in a tourist area regularly frequented by caravans and I don't drive every day or week along routes to the West Country or wherever. so I can, rightly, be accused of bias perhaps, but I have other substantial causes for delay where I live and have to live with them - or move, the choice is mine. If I choose to live near London in the' suburbs' where the the roads are overcrowded with road users of ALL sorts, then that's my fault. And if I make it worse when I take my car out then I shouldn't complain. We're all guilty of hypocrisy to a greater or lesser extent. We complain about "these bl**dy traffic jams", thinkiing that *we* should be entitled to use the road, but the others are just a nuisance and something should be done about it.
There is an element of taxation on them too. VAT is paid and extral fuel consumed is taxed and caravanners pay tax on their consumables and fees.
I don't want one myself. I don't fancy the hassle of towing a large and somewhat unwieldy trailer behind me down motorways and narrow lanes with a vehicle not specifically designed for the job. If anything I'd probably consider a Motorhome, given that they're easier to handle and less inconvenience. But I'm not that struck on the idea of parking in a field for my holiday and given the choice, would sooner stay in a B&B or Hotel and use my car to travel about as I please, or walk the countryside booking in at accomodation along the way. However I find it quite nice that others do, and enjoy it. Good luck to them.
The vast caravan sites that could be described as 'blots on the landscape' are an eyesore. The smaller ones tucked out of the way are no trouble to anyone, (don't think everyone will agree with that, but never mind), but are no worse than a number of other less attractive establishments that grace the countryside with their presence.
And if they do generate income in areas that no longer have industries that have gone (for whatever reason), then so much the better. If an ex tin miner can get a living from work associated with the leisure industry then at least he's not on the dole.
I shall now don MY protective headwear (and not for the first time) and join Darcy in the bunker.
KB.
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We all pay tax for fuel. We also pay a tax for the use and maintenance of the roads (not much of what is collected is spent on that but never mind!). Caravans use the roads, slightly wear out the roads, why should they not have a seperate registration, an MOT and pay tax? They use the roads, why not pay, everybody else does, except tax exempt classics?
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I don't care how great the manufacturer says your van is, you should not be doing more than 50 or 60 mph when towing. With 2 to 4 tons of metal on the motor way, if you hit the central reservation there is every chance or crashing over it and causing total carnage to other motorists!. Slower is safer, you can stop quicker, you have more control, you can predict and or see events unfolding in front of you, you avoid the risk of the van snaking!
Moreover, a lot of caravaners are of the maturer age range, don't tell me you are as qucik at 65 or 75 as you are at 25!!!! Consult the pages at DVLA to see what they say about old folks on the road. Yes, that is why they are annoying and go very slowly (or should do) because of radically reduced reaction times.
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Most drivers are unaware that since 1997 anyone who passed a driving test is prohibited from towing a caravan without taking a seperate driving test (Currently £76.00 for the test, plus a possibly considerable amount on tuition fees). I have never seen anyone turn up at a test centre with a trailer on tow to take such a test, so I would guess that the number of new drivers with trailer entitlement is very low. In the longer term the bother of going through this procedure may dramatically reduce the number of vans we see on the roads.
Be aware also that because of the widespread ignorance among new drivers and their parents about this change in the law, that swaying conservatory you are trying to inch passed may be driven by someone who is unlicensed and therefore uninsured.
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Does anyone know how many people have actually taken this test, then? This is the best news I've heard for some time...
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I'm waiting for the envirnmental lobby to claim that a car pulling a caravan uses more fuel, and therefore should be banned, along with all four-by-fours.
Andy
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Does this only apply to caravans, or all trailers, such as camping types and car trailers, which when loaded can be pretty heavy?
Mike
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Is this since 1997, everyone towing must have passed a separate test , or everyone who has passed the driving test since 1997?
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All drivers who passed since 1997 are affected, those who passed before have "Grandfather Rights" and are not subject to the change in legislation. I am not sure of the weight limit on trailers that can be towed without a seperate test, though I believe it does not affect very small trailers.
I do not have the figures as to the numbers of B+E tests (Car plus trailer) that have been conducted, but the actual number is a staggering 98.75% BELOW the number that the DVLA were anticipating, according to figures published by the Motor Schools Association.
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"All drivers who passed since 1997 are affected, those who passed before have "Grandfather Rights" and are not subject to the change in legislation."
Handy if I wanted to tow a caravan behind Toad!
By the way, we could do without some of the ageist cracks on here!
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I am sure that this law is universally unknown and universally ignored.
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Ignorance of any law, even mundane ones will not stand a chance in hell of being accepted by a judge or jury. You may get the fact that you did not know taken into account if a sentance is pasts, but you will still be guilty of whatever it is you unknowingly did, even driving a caravan without the appropriate licence.
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What about that then Darcy, I reckon you won that one. Not even HJ (who I know is a devout caravan enthusiast and is often to be seen careering along country lanes in his Mondeo+Abbey 26 footer combo), had anything to criticise you for.
Enjoy your forthcoming jaunts and have a virtual barbeque on me.
KB.
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This is when Darcy owns up to being a 17 year old new driver....
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Martin
I agree entirely.
It has been my view for some time that the whole of the English law should be published on the web for free.
That would encourage the pruning of obsolete legislation and remove the situation that you are deemed to know every law in force, purchase of the relevent Acts which would set you back tens of thousands of pounds.
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Our local HGV testing station conducts driving tests for 7.5t vehicles with / without trailers. Passing the test upgrades a new drivers licence to the one that most of us have. Very rare to see a 7.5 tonner plus trailer on test though. I suppose this means that eventually, few drivers will have the caravan towing entitlement on their licence.
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Opinion on caravanners? Live and let die.
Rob F
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Surely not serious Rob?
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Mind you, one thing at least must be said in favour of caravanning, as of all private motoring - you are not snookered by drivers' strikes.
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My parents have a caravan but now it only gets used once a year for a weekend, and I have done much of the towing of it on those occasions since I was 18. I looked into taking this test, but upon further reading I realised it would be legal for me to to the caravan if my mum supervised. The funny thing is she would have no confidence towing the caravan and has no experience of it!
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Pete - I wouldn't object to having to MoT the caravan but Ian C's point about extra fuel tax is well put.
David W - and your mirror?
TG Webb - sorry to hear about your poor experience. 4 years in the life of a modern caravan is nothing and you have grounds for a serious word with the manufacturers. We traded in a 1989 Leda Malvern at the end of last year which was only just showing signs of damp. The new Lunar has a 5 year water ingress guarantee. And, with 4 children, the numbers add up in favour of owning your own van. We have hotelled occasionally, but have not enjoyed it.
KB - thanks for the support. We don't have a barbie, preferring to eat out wherever there is a supply of good food and fine ale. And I don't see this a win or lose situation. I'm all for co-existence on the roads and elsewhere.
Tom S - 17, yeah going on 49, I've got these "grandfather rights" you mention.
I'm mildly surprised I haven't coaxed more rantings out of the virtual woodwork. Yes, I do pull over on a main road if I see a queue developing in the mirrors, I do ease off the gas if someone is passing, but it's difficult to anticipate if the overtaker has spent the last mile glued to the back of the van out of sight, swings out with no signal and often in the wrong gear so their car staggers past, giving them and oncoming traffic a fright.
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I never could see why caravans. Winnebagos, yeah, but caravans???
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Interesting point, Growler! They are less bother to others, I find, than the weekend drive-yourself hired commercial vans, never mind the trailed caravans. But do they need this new secret licence?
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If you have a motorhome then you've got the living space attached to the vehicle all the time. What happens when you arrive, get pitched and need to go shopping/out for the day? Put everything away, tidy up and set off, unless you tow a spare car behind - then what's the point? Why not tow the living space behind you and leave it ready to walk back into? In Europe you may find your pitch snaffled when you get back. Also, if the motorhome is your only vehicle, you will have a penalty in manoeuvreability and fuel consumption as you commute to work, go to the shops, go to the snooker club etc. If it's not your only vehicle, why pay for the motorised bits to rust/sieze up when it's idle. As for a Winnebago, can anyone actually afford to run something like that in the UK?
Can't see the attraction of a motorhome; they all seem to be based on delivery vans anyway, not like the luxury Citroen Synergie that I drive.
;-)
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Darcy
Your point about motorhomes is precisely the reason I prefer a towed caravan. Friends of ours bought an expensive motorhome last year, much against my advice. They've just realised the error of their ways, sold it, and bought a new caravan!
Ian
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That's easy, lash a couple of Honda trailies on the back for when you stop. Or pushbikes, if you must.
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And for those of us without bike licences? Or when it's chucking it down? And with 4 children, who drives the third bike? Sorry, Growler not convinced.
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Don't know what to suggest: package holidays to somewhere sunny perhaps :-)
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I have done the campervan thing for a few years and i agree with those advocating caravans. Some advice, if you are a infequent user (once or twice a year) then put your caravan in storage, somewhere dry and out of the rain. I know as a point of fact that there is a massvie farm warehouse in Gloucester offering safe storage for caravans from £25 a month which ain't bad at all! You don't even have to continue the insurance during this period as it is a safe lock-up! Plus, if you enjoy s.france, there are many farmers offering a similar service from £10 a month, many Brits do this and it saves the massive expense of ferrying a caravan and the stress of drving down with it!
email me and i might be able to find the address of those people offering caravan storage.
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Give up, Growler!
Those who wish to tow caravans will do it because it suits them, and hard luck on those behind; I just wish some of them looked happier doing it!
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Damn these people, why can't they all go to Butlins -- I can hear my old man now as he spluttered on another gasper and waited desperately for a point where our wheezing old Hillman Husky could safely pass this swaying plywood and aluminium contraption in front....
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What really puzzles me is the wilful selection of the least suitable vehicle to do the towing.
I notice that caravans are amazingly cheap,and compared to the awful motorhomes,almost free.
this leaves plenty of budget for a suitable tow vehicle,and there are plenty around,so why are these sodding great Wendy houses being dragged up shallow gradients,at 30mph, behind 1'6 mondeos?
Because one cannot obtain a motorhome with anything like a safe power to weight ratio,i have been taking a minor interest in caravans.My local man has some excellent jobs,almost too big for two of us,for 2 grand.That is really,really,stupid cheap.He also thinks my Van Aackened 405td will tow it easily,we'll see about that,but it drags a biggish boat well enough.
Limiting caravans to 50 is just plain stupid,if properly rigged,with the correct nose weights,and on the correct vehicle then no restriction of any sort is necessary.The caravan Club told me that 30 years ago when I sold them a Maxi.
I suppose i shall have an excuse to buy something with self levelling rear end and seriously butch diesel.i rather fancy one of those trucks with a four man cab,and truckman back,ithink mazda(?) do one.
are they any good?will they respond to chipping?
will you remind nme of all the rude things I've said about 4wd owners?
is the pope a catholic?
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