Recently on holiday in Italy the wife and I fell completely in love with the new Alfa 159. There was a black one sat in front of the hotel all week and we both thought it was absolutely stunning. We also saw a few Alfa GTs which I suppose is the Coupe version and we think this is arguably even more stunning.
The question is this. If I had a company car I'd have no hesitation in getting one but because I'd have to buy it privately with my own hard earned cash I'm reluctant because of all the negativity that surrounds Alfa and its cars. Am I being over cautious and a chicken or should I just say "sod it" and buy one? It's a classic head v heart scenario I suppose. Has anyone out there "gambled" on an Alfa or another dream car and regretted it/not regretted it?
Maybe I'm getting old but I think I must be getting bored of being sensible and buying sensible cars. Unfortunately, I'm not so well off that I can afford to just throw money away. So it's quite a big decision.
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Few of us are well off enough not to worry about such things!
My motor industry experience suggests that the problems in the UK are mostly dealer-related. They ARE improving, but slowly. We had a family 145 a while ago, beautiful to look at, nice to drive, but niggly faults and idiosyncrasies were irritating and exacerbated by lack of dealer support, no names but Cheshire based dealer..... at the moment, I would say no but in a couple of years, yes. I have an A3 company car that I WOULD buy with my own money.... I would love a 159 or similar but would not buy one with my own cash at the mo.
That said, once out of warranty, my ever resourceful sister found a Shropshire based specialist who I wish would get a proper Alfa franchise. Sympathetic, understanding of said idiosyncrasies and basically a good chap. Buy a 3 year old one and you may be OK.
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My wife has a 159 Sportwagon 1.9JTDm on order for October delivery - but it's a 3 year work lease - we certainly wouldn't purchase one with our own money at present. Like you we completely fell in love with the looks and it was surprisingly cheap on lease vs its competitors. We're taking a gamble, but in essense only on possibly having more trips to the dealers than had we chosen an A4 etc. HJ rated the 159 very highly - I will certainly report back once we get the car to see how it wears the miles.
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Two friends had 2000 (X) reg Alfa 156's and their experiences were diametrically opposed.
The first, a 2.5 V6 Veloce Sportwagon racked up 80,000 miles with, the odd cheap to fix niggle aside, not a single major fault to its name. It never broke down or failed to start, and at 80k it still looked good, sounded glorious and went like something off a shovel. The boot in the backside and the noise as it passed 5,000 RPM was just utterly addictive. He only sold it because he emigrated.
The second was a 2.0 TS Lusso saloon and although it was great to drive, was a joke of a car to live with. Gearbox failure, clutch failure, tappet problems, oil seal failures, electrical faults, random breakdowns - you name it. All within 60,000 miles.
Both cars were sympathetically treated, and both serviced on the button according to the schedule. The main difference was the V6 was looked after by an independent Alfa specialist, and the other by the local Alfa dealer.
That said, I drove both cars, and the build quality of the two cars felt like they'd come from two different manufacturers. The V6 Sportwagon felt beautifully put together and still "tight" even at 80k. The 2.0 felt loose, rattly and tired at half that mileage. They do seem to vary somewhat., but if you get a good one, it's hard to find a more satisfying car for the money.
Cheers
DP
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A sportwagon diesel is the best to buy a trader friend sells nothing but Alfas and he scours the country for second hand diesels they sell as soon as they come onto his lot.He also experiences almost no comebacks for warranty work,lease companies love them because they fetch good money when they are sold on compared to Mondeos ,Vectras etc.
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What grief? I've had a 145 for 9 years now. If I were in the market for another car then I'd definitly buy another Alfa. The car has never broken down. All cars that I have owned have had problems (Polo, Fiesta, Mondeo). The Alfa is now showing its age underneath - rusting has set in where the underbody seal has been compromized. The fiesta was failing MOTs by this stage due to rust although the Polo (D-reg) was clear of rust even after 12 years. The electrics also have been pretty reliable. Only on one occasion did the ECU (or the flexifilm connections to be precise) suffer from water ingress, but I cleaned and dried that out myself. At 6-months old the gearbox developed a drip (warranty) and at 12 months the alarm ECU wouldn't let the remote plip work (warranty). Otherwise one front wishbone, one rear wheel bearing and the clutch slave cylinder is all it had needed outside of the regular servicing. Only the Polo was more reliable.
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I had a 145 for 3 years and loved it, had one breakdown in that time, which was just a sensor needing replacement. I would say that, looked after properly, they are no more nor less reliable than any other marque. But it is true that if neglected, they can bite.
Oh, and the GT isn't the Coupe version of the 159, the Brera is. The GT is based on the older 147.
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As Bazza says, nowadays they are no more or less reliable than any other make. Im on my 3rd 156, (a 1.8TS and then 2 GTA's). My current GTA was an ex Fiat UK car, bought at 6k miles, I have since done nearly 30k miles in 16 months, the only problem being a bloked aircon drain pipe. The engine is superb, still looks great (imho!) and wouldn't swap it for hardly anything.
Dealers aren't the best however, that part isn't exaggerated, but my local one isn't too bad, although admittedly not the best!
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Can I ask what is maybe a stupid question - why are the dealers so bad? Everyone on this site knows I have a beef with VW and their dealers' inability to fix things so Alfa dealers surely can't be any worse.
Or can they? The ones I've seen around here seem a bit grotty. They certainly aren't the modern aluminium and glass affairs that VW dealers are. But grottiness should have nothing to do with quality of service.
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My last car but one was 156 Sportwagon 2.4JTD and the litany of problems I had with it would try the patience of a saint and neither before or since have I had worse service and cooperation from a dealer network. So many colleagues had similar experiences that they are no longer on our car lists. That said, when it was working and you didn?t have to meet the dealer, it was an absolute dream to drive, stunning inside and out and every time you walked up to it you got a real feelgood factor; I get the same buzz whenever I see the new Brera, GT or 159.
Yesterday I remarked on some people who are unlucky enough to get a duff motor and/or bad service from the dealer and who subsequently turn into nutters and insufferable bores, ranting on about everyone must avoid an auto group and all of it?s products e.g. ?I got a duff Focus/Golf/306 which couldn?t be fixed and my dealer was horrid, so at all costs avoid all FMC/VAG/PSA products they?re all rubbish, I?ll never buy another etc.? If this would be you then please God don?t get an Alfa because any time someone asks for advice on a Fiat product it will just herald a tedious whinge-fest. If you?re sensible enough to realize that mistakes are made in the manufacturing of complex items and customer service can be patchy and that there?s a large element of luck with any car brand, which you need to manage, get over or get rid, then you should try one, because if you?re lucky you?ll have a beautiful car with real character which will really put a grin on your face.
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Can't speak for all of them, but my local one seems to be staffed by people who couldn't care less. Another problem is the turnover of staff, no sooner do you get to know someone, they get moved on and so you're always dealing with people who don't know you from Adam. Think this is more of the dealer comapny than Alfa UK though.
As far as comapring them to other dealers I must say I've got no idea, because I've driven Alfas for the last 8 years!
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Alfa dealers with whom you build up a relationship are good in my experience. I have used the Alfa dealers in Stoke-on-Trent, Bishops Stortford, St Leonards on Sea, Leicester. I would go back to all of them, especially the one in St Leonards who often did something for nothing and even gave me a discount on a cambelt change.
I am very technically minded and I make sure that I get that point across at an early point. I think it stops all thought of trying to pull a fast one on me.
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You are quite right RB and the forums had many stories similar to yours throughout the country- also to say that they're all terrible would be as daft as extropolating that all alfas are terrible from the faults on a particular vehicle. I also wonder if it being a company car worked against us. I won't name the dealers but we principally used one in the Heathrow area and I also used a local one near Portsmouth; the latter was wearily indifferent to problems and the former was deeply unpleasant, obstructive, uncooperative and downright aggressive at times. As most people dropped off their cars with the latter dealer I think that their service was the nail in the coffin. IIRC there never seemed to be any parts in the UK and they had to be ordered from Italy! By far the best service I received was on 2 seperate occasions from seperate 2 dealerships in France. as I said above, still lovely cars.
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The company I work for buy around 150 company cars p/a. Alfa's were banned two years ago after serious reliability issues. After 80k one car had had two new gearbox's, new suspension and several other serious niggles that simply never got properly fixed. In the end the few Alfa's they had were costing so much to maintain (in days off the road) that they decided to simply ban people choosing them.
Additionally, my brother in law had an Alfa (forget which model) which he got new about 5 years ago that had so many problems in the first six months he took legal action against them, refused to make anymore repayments until all problems were fixed and then simply got rid of it as he'd lost confidence in the car. A few months later he saw the same car on the back of an AA truck...
It's such a shame because if they were to acheive anywhere near the reliability of some Japanese manufacturers then they'd have it made because their styling is usually top notch.
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Martin I have been guilty on many occasions in the past of ranting on about VW. The reason for that is because I bought into them at the time with great expectations of superior reliabilty and quality. That is what they advertised themselves on and that is what I paid a premium for. And that is why I was so bitter when it went wrong.
With Alfa I think I'd forgive it because the expectations of reliabilty and quality aren't there. I know it would be a bit of a gamble and it might not be reliable but at least it would be fantastic to drive and beautiful to behold. I just don't know if I've got the bottle to do it. At the end of the day it's £20k not tuppence ha'penny.
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TBH I don't recall your name or previous complaint and so can't tell if you were drawing attention to a problem with your vehicle or a customer service incident, which you're perfectly right to do, or whether you're one of the people I described above who illogically extrapolates his difficulties, popping up at every opportunity to damn an entire auto group. The latter approach is like tedious fridge noise and serves no purpose. If it's the former, and I hope it is, buy an Alfa and there's an odds on chance that you'll have a ball and keep any problems in perspective; if it's the latter then IMO you should do not buy an Alfa or for that matter any non-Japanese car.
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I suppose on the grounds that I've never owned a Japanese car I can't be that obsesed with reliability. In fact I've always had Vauxhalls (as well as others) because they've always been good to me. Others on this site hate them. So you're right about your point above.
I think it's an age thing. I'm 40 next year and am obviously craving some excitement. In fact I can feel another thread coming on. "Mid life crisis - reality or myth? Discuss in automotive terms".
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I've found that you can forgive cars chosen with the heart which turn out to be problematic if you have a competent and helpful dealer. Without that backup your patience may well be stretched to it's limits. I would either ask RB to recommend a dealer in your area or some Alfa forums which can steer you in the right direction.
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I was lusting after a Brera a short while ago. Had a look, but no matter how I tried it was never going to be suitable as an everyday family car. I like the GT nearly as much, but the Alfa Forums have put me off for now!!
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Ask yourself - will I regret NOT doing it in a few years time?
Years ago I did 70,000 trouble free miles in my old Alfasud (stll my favourite car I've owned), then 100,000 trouble free miles in a 33. What I did have was an excellent independent specialist. Neither was cheap to run but that wasn't the point.
If I didn't have the Legacy, I'd run a 156 GTA.
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I've run 2 Alfa's over the years a '92 75 2litre & a '00 156 JTD SW, both were the dogs to drive. The 75 was a paragon of reliability & the 156 wasn't bad, with it's worst being a failed diesel pump which is a bosch bit anyway.
Both looked stunning, drove far beyond their capacity & cost. The 75 went from 56K to 112K miles as a second owner & cost 24pence per mile & NEVER let me down on the road. The 156 went from 37K to 106K cost 32PPM & let me down on the road once with a failed turbo. Currently lusting after a late 156 possibly a GTA SW & I can see one being on the drive again as I need the Alfa itch scrached yet again.
Used some brilliant dealers, Medway Alfa, SGT, Alfa Aid & Lyles of Newcastle all I'd recommend to anybody. Medway went out of their way to assist. Yup some dealers are dire but a lot of the issue is Co. car drivers who only worry about a stamp in the service book so don't give a monkey's as to what happens. Funnily enough I know of BMW & Audi dealers now suffering the same thing.
A lot of Alfa problems are quite minor & when they occur on say a Mondeo (wishbone bushes for instance) no-one blinks an eye but make a big fuss about it if it's an Alfa!
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I'm so glad that everyone thinks Alfa's are so horrifically unreliable. When the time comes to replacing the Focus (Christmas-time probably) I hope to be able to consider a nearly-new 159 JTD. The reputation does have it's plus-points people - look at how easily you can get a gorgeous 156 for £2k!
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