I was not taught to press the button when applying the handbrake. The teeth on the ratchet are angled so that the pawl slips over them easily. It does no harm whatsoever to allow the ratchet to click during application, and the number of clicks tells the driver whether any adjustment is needed.
It is not an indication of mechanical sympathy to apply the handbrake silently. It betrays an obsessive personality.
So there.
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well lud seing as you work on cars every day and i dont then i for one will let you have the last word on this subject..................... ;-)
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go and wash you hands,,,,,,,,,,,again lud......
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Thanks om. But I didn't really want to have the last word, just to say something different from virtually everyone else on this extremely trivial subject.
I don't understand TVM's post at all. Why do I need to wash my hands again, and why all the commas?
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obsessive personality
Frequent hand washing is a symptom of compulsive behaviour disorder, one of the obsessive personality symptoms.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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So you were hinting that it takes one to know one, TVM? No doubt you are right. But why the row of commas?
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I have keyboards tourettes syndrome......,,,,,,
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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LOL TVM, and thanks! .
There was an old man with Tourette's
Who murmured: 'Among my regrets
Is my failure to shine
In the murmuring line
Because of this BUM FREAK! Tourette's.'
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Getting back to handbrakes.
To the guy who says that if he pulls harder then two clicks he then has to adjust the cable, I say you have a fault somewhere else because this is not normal or desirable mechanical behaviour.
To the poster who says he puts his foot on the foot brake first then pulls up the handbrake, yes this is the advised behaviour on later VW's that are well known for rolling away when parked. The handbrake on the touran is without doubt the worst one I have experienced in 30+ years drving.
Now to clicking on the ratchet. My father never did it, nor his father before him ever did it.. I am carrying on the family tradition and If my son ever does it I shall coach* him not to.
(*slap him repeatedly till he stops doing it)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>To the poster who says he puts his foot on the foot brake first then pulls up the handbrake, yes this is the advised behaviour
I was taught this by a wonderfull Flight Sergeant who took us for airframes and engines instruction on the Bulldog. I took my car test some months after the RN first sent me solo.
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Advanced driving techniques suggest depressing the release button on the handbrake to avoid wear on the ratchet. I doubt whether this is appropriate advice on a modern car, I found out today that I do indeed press the button, guess it's the effect of having some mechanical sympathy. Wouldn't be in my top ten of questions to a seller when I was buiying a second hand car.
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The rachet on my Vectra handbrake is so quiet anyway, it's hardly noticable if you don't press the button before lifting up the lever.
My driving instructor (back in 1985) told me the prefered method is to press the button as it doesn't annoy the examiner quite so much.
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I used to do some IAM Observing (until about a year or so ago, when I packed it in because it was too time consuming). Anyway, one of the things the IAM is keen on is that drivers should apply the handbrake anytime the car is stationary for more than a few seconds - the reasons for this are obvious. Very very few, if any, of the drivers I observed ever did this during their initial observed run/s. Thus the typical handbrake is not applied very frequenty. I suspect that if drivers applied the handbrake as often as they should then the ratchet WOULD wear out if you didn't push the button. I always have pushed the button - apart from when counting the clicks during a service.
To the chap with the BMW 330D. You have a fault with your rear brake mechanism. If the car is under warranty then take it to the dealer for a repair - **Don't tell them you've worked on it or, knowing BMW dealers, they'll tell you that you've caused the faulty and its no longer covered by the warranty**.
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But did the IAM have a policy on button pressing, Aprilia?
I've never come across a car with a worn-out ratchet, and I've driven a fair number of rough and neglected examples.
But I did once drive someone's new Rover 2000 and applied the handbrake too vigorously, so that the cable stretched or something flexed, the lever came up too far and the button with its spring and so on popped out. It was possible to release the brake, but not to reassemble the device with one hand while driving up Kensington Gore .
A very embarrassing occasion.
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To the guy who says that if he pulls harder then two clicks he then has to adjust the cable, I say you have a fault somewhere else because this is not normal or desirable mechanical behaviour.
In the days before handbrake levers were designed to have a significant amount of movement before reaching the first click, if it only had two clicks travel then the brakes were liable to drag. I used to specify 5 clicks travel when having my car serviced. How long have cars had the current level of click-free movement?
--
L\'escargot.
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this extremely trivial subject.
It might be extremely trivial to you but to us confirmed anti-clickers ........ !
--
L\'escargot.
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>> this extremely trivial subject. It might be extremely trivial to you but to us confirmed anti-clickers ........ ! -- L\'escargot.
Indeed! What are these 'clicks'. Never heard them in my cars. Unless you mean creaking from the plethora of plastics used in modern day cars.
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different cars have diferent amounts of clicks to the end of their travel here is my homwork for the weekend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
corsa " b" 8 clicks
omega..7 clicks
movano..10 clicks
ford ka..6 clicks
focus..4 clicks
hyundai atoz..7-8 clicks
vw golf.......3-4 clicks
now how sad is that finding that information???????
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I am the guy or chap (never been called that before 8-)) with the 330d who has to constantly adjust the handbrake. The car does have a fault...a rather weak, stretchy handbrake cable. Handbrake shoes still have lots of material, they aren't glazed and I have cleaned them out at least once since I got the car in Nov. When driving at slow speeds >30mph I also occasionally apply the handbrake very lightly to ensure that the friction surfaces get a scrub.
If I was the only one experiencing it then I might be a bit more concerned, but there are too many other BMW owners on the forums I frequent that also complain of similar issues so I am putting it down to a manufacturer/model specific fault rather than a fault with my particular car.
I will concede that I am a bit obsessive about wanting the handbrake to hold the car with only 2 clicks on the rachet, but if the car holds just fine on my sloped driveway with 2 clicks on one day then needs 3 or 4 clicks the following week, then I am sure you will understand my need to "rectify" it.
Now that I have admitted to a handbrake obsession I may as well come completely clean. When releasing the handbrake I use my index finger to push in the button, not my thumb!!!.
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Trancer, I'm not familiar with BMW handbrakes, but many years ago I had a problem with a Peugeot rear disc hand / foot brake. The lever travel was acceptable, every visible part seemed to be in good working order and yet the handbrake didn't work.
It turned out that the rear calipers depended upon full handbrake travel to operate the pads when applying the handbrake. If the cable was to tight, it just wouldn't move the pads far enough to grip the discs. The simple answer was to slacken the cable off allowing the caliper to work as designed.
And there were too many clicks to bother counting.
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The BMW handbrake uses a seperate mechanism from the rear brake caliper, its essentially a drum brake within the rear disc. When everything is adjusted the rear brake holds nicely and one could even do a nice 180 degree handbrake turn if the McDonalds audience wanted it. Such use would mean that the cable would slacken again requiring yet another adjustment therefore I don't do handbrake turns.
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Nothing to do with wearing flats on your expensive tyres and attracting the unwelcome attention of plod waiting nearby to control the burger-crazed McDonald's clientele when they come out, trancer?
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I've not had this on any BMW's that I've had my hands on. Possibly they switched parts supplier for a while and had some problems. Might be worth trying ECP for a replacement cable - they are easy to replace. Might well solve your problem.
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I think this is one of those wonderful English folk-tales that persist years after they are relevant. Perhaps the ratchet in a 1932 Morris 10 was known to be weak, and the word went round how to preserve it. Now, more than 70 years later the myth is still around, shrouded in such terms as 'mechanical sympathy' and so on. I think it's like the traditional use (in England) of a plastic washing up bowl for washing dishes in a perfectly good kitchen sink. Now we haven't been washing the children or ourselves or our clothes in the kitchen sink for several decades now, but when I lived in England, the locals were horrified that I just washed the dishes in the sink without a bowl. They couldn't tell me exactly why, but only that their mother had warned them of awful consequences if they didn't do it. Isn't it time to put some of these old wives tales out to pasture?
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Couldn't have put it better myself Pete M.
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To be honest everyone is calling it a handbrake, I believe the correct term is parking brake. If it's dual circuit brakes (which all cars are now post about 1976) then it's not a secondary braking mechanisim it's a parking brake, hence lower efficiency required on the MOT. 16% vs 25%.
As regards the ratchet, yup I doubt it does wear it out but it sounds awful & indicates an overall lack of mechanical sympathy. But that's endemic with todays drivers. At NOT centre the other week, little 02 plate Vauxhall Agila with engine in bits (3 pot DOHC) I enquired why, oh the owner boiled it dry & carried on driving it until it blew headgasket & timing chain tensioner! Oh and I have a Galaxy where the owner also ignored the temperature guage & cooked it so comprehensively that he called the fire brigade out as they thought it would catch fire! That has a hole in a piston & is urrently looking for another engine! We both wondered how much noise an engine makes to die like that & how you can continue driving it?
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Mechanical sympathy be damned. If you think it's an annoying sound, well and good.
I like it myself.
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If pressing the button serves any at all purpose I'm still unclear why a major manufacturer namely Ford should be so unsypathetic to their product. The CMAX handbook stated categorically that you should not press the button when applying the parking brake and my recollection is that the Focus handbook said the same. I've always assumed that this was a safety issue to ensure that the pawl was engaged in the ratchet and the brake securely locked on - I guess I will stick with the advice of the people who made the car.
Are any other possible mythical procedures that have persisted down the years?
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i take umbrage at mythical procedures (joke) but in the lighthearted vane i put forward
pulling the choke out just prior to turning engine off to keep the elixior of life in the plenum chamber...........................(.dont ask me it was a done thing)
lifting the fuel pump line up to get the last bit off fuel out (did that work i never did fathom it?)
carrying a spade in the boot in case you got stuck in the snow (yes A1 and i was the only car that got past scotch corner)
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Are any other possible mythical procedures that have persisted down the years?
Most member of the PU clan are suckers for some wreck or other, me not least in my choice of Landies.... a silent prayer was uttered over the hard winter we had every time that key was turned......I still do this occasionaly when starting my latest cars.
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sorry - I meant "possibly" mythical -
Re pulling the choke out my father always use to floor the accelerator for few seconds before switching off for the same reason - He was no proponent of mechanical sympathy!
Is there any one out there still double de-clutching?
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Yes - alive and well, not always but sometimes......
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Does it have any benefit on a a car with modern gearbox or are we talking classic cars?
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It's another advanced driving thing, alleged to reduce gearbox wear but presumably at the cost of clutch wear, the landie needs it sometimes to persuade her to change gear........would never do it in my mainstream cars (no longe an issue in my 535 - auto)
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Does it have any benefit on a a car with modern gearbox or are we talking classic cars?
If the synchromesh is damaged or weak on one or more gears double-declutching will enable silent changes to be made and prevent further damage, at the expense of the clutch mechanism.
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Maybe it's something to do with the latest Ford ratchets having a very refined 'fine' click, and they want the driver to hear it. Gives the impression of good engineering, whereas the old clacking ratchet didn't.
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In the 70's my Cortina handbrake cable had stretched so the lever needed a good few clicks and was almost at 45 degrees before the brake applied. All that was needed was a cable tensioner which I carefully manufactured with stainless steel adjusters and fitted to the cable. (Thought it a cheaper option than a new cable).
A short time later I was involved in an accident which resulted in my car being towed off the the police garage for inspection. On finding my non standard fitment, they decided to do me for driving with defective brakes. At 18, I didn't feel confident enough to defend the charge and was prosecuted and fined a good months salary. Over 30 years later I still harbour a resentment for Essex Police based on my early experiences. My carefully constructed mod performed as planned and had no part in the accident yet for many years later, I was paying the price (in fine installments, insurance premiums etc). Being mechanical sympathetic, I'm a silent puller.
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last time i saw a handbrake slack adjuster which was literaly a half moon with a threaded bolt was only about 8/10 years ago and they were still quite popular on bread and butter stuff.
Personally i never fancied them and have never fitted them my reasoning was that when i was a lad i converted a sit up and beg rod braked pushbike to cables and you had to make your own cables up and put your own nipples on the end,well one of the nipples undid and i crashed so ive always had respect for stretched cables and breakages since,however this is the first instance that i have ever heard that somebody got "done" for it and can understand that you did a good job and still feel bitter (i would too)
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I always wince when I hear drivers ripping the handbrake on without disengaging the ratchet. One day the ratchet will be so worn that the car might roll away when parked. I've driven cars and vans where the ratchet is so worn some of the 'clicks' were missing, so it's not just an old wives' tale!
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I've driven cars and vans where the ratchet is so worn some of the 'clicks' were missing, so it's not just an old wives' tale!
But how would you know this? If the noise makes you wince, you wouldn't pull the handbrake on without first pressing the button, and therefore wouldn't hear the missing clicks anyway ;o)
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let me explain then .DD
you get in a vehicle unknown to you you pull up the lever till you feel it will hold vehicle and the lever immediately drops down one tooth
another favourite is that you put the handbrake on properly but inadvertantly knock it at some stage slightly from the side this makes them release and depending where you are this could cause a nasty accident
both these things happen often with cars..............
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SiL's Volvo V50 was subject to a recall performed yesterday.
What was it?
To:
1) Fit a modified handbrake switch that triggers later, much later, in the "pull'
2) Add a page to the owner's manual to say how to use a handbrake!!
Yes, really.
Some twerp is alledged to have pulled the handbrake up a couple of clicks and on seeing the light come on, get out of their car to watch it roll away and crash.
They sued Volvo, who are now performing a "mod" at some considerable expence.
If true, there's no hope for the world.
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I always wince when I hear drivers ripping the handbrake on
'Ripping' indeed!
I apply my handbrake gently. It clicks, gently, twice. Three times if it's a very steep bit of road.
It stays adjusted like this too.
Of course I hardly ever apply the brakes - the real brakes - heavily.
I find all this stuff about handbrakes, or parking brakes, utterly ridiculous.
Personally I reserve mechanical sympathy for important areas.
Faugh! Tush! Wahataloadacobblers!
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And has it occurred to anyone that extra wear on the release button mechanism, or clumsy or negligent use of it, might easily be responsible for knocking some of the points off the ratchet? Perhaps that's why some manufacturers tell you not to press the button when applying the brake, only when releasing it.
You obsessives are damaging your cars!
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May be this is why some cars now have electric handbrakes.
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I think this is one of those wonderful English folk-tales that persist years after they are relevant. Perhaps the ratchet in a 1932 Morris 10 was known to be weak, and the word went round how to preserve it. Now, more than 70 years later the myth is still around, shrouded in such terms as 'mechanical sympathy' and so on. I think it's like the traditional use (in England) of a plastic washing up bowl for washing dishes in a perfectly good kitchen sink. Now we haven't been washing the children or ourselves or our clothes in the kitchen sink for several decades now, but when I lived in England, the locals were horrified that I just washed the dishes in the sink without a bowl. They couldn't tell me exactly why, but only that their mother had warned them of awful consequences if they didn't do it. Isn't it time to put some of these old wives tales out to pasture?
Er...just offhand, plastic bowl is
less noisy
Less likely to chip plates (ceramic sympathy)
Means you don't have to clean the sink thoroughly (a "real world" reason)
Means you still have the drain and tap free for rinsing, if you do that.
I don't do it because its traditional, I do it because it makes sense.
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