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Without a doubt my Singer Vogue estate (Hillman Hunter shape). On crossply tyres in the wet could be held in long, controllable power slides, mostly at quite low speeds. Great fun. Not all that quick. But the OP was about handling, not roadholding.
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VBH on 5th Gear raved about the Legacy estate in a recent track test against some 4WD Volvo or other. IIRC the Legacy was several seconds faster round the track and VBH was doing a lot of screeching and raving about how good the chassis is.
I can't comment on the estates but Legacy saloons are exceptional for the money too. In a different class in terms of handling and grip to just about everything else for similar money.
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Is the 4WD Jag X-Type not worth considering?
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Aside from the comment I made about the ratios on my Legacy in the auto-box thread, the handling of my estate genuinely lives up to the name "sports tourer".
I can't imagine how much fun the 3.0 would be.
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Mitsubishi Galant VR4? (The estate version sometimes called a Legnum).
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>>I can't imagine how much fun the 3.0 would be<<
Put it this way, a friend of mine swapped his newish Porsche 911-thingy (whatever they're called now) for a Spec-B when he acquired a Great Dane and a baby. He was planning to get a second 'fun' car as well, but hasn't bothered.
I've driven it, and I can see why (even though I don't like cog-swapping). It even sounds a bit like a Porsche (same flat-6 noise, I guess). Looks superb in black, too.
BTW, agree about the Leggy's autobox. If only they'd done it with a 5-speeder . . . .
Hope you're enjoying yours
Davros
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Don't forget genuinly well handling estates with proper RWD set ups !
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I find it very interesting that no-one has mentioned 5 series estate.
Personally if it was my money it would be the legacy and the accord although I am beginning to like the new 5 series tourer the more I see it.
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"Don't forget genuinly well handling estates with proper RWD set ups !"
What else would it be other than a BMW ???
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I would go for a scooby and someone once said (Mr J. Clarkson) 'that volvo's were the fastest trucks on the road'.
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Something like a 330i or a 530i Touring I'd have thought.
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or the "d" versions, plenty fast enough.
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the accord does handle well (i have a type s, so stiffer suspension), but is it the best? it handles like a smaller car, but i wouldnt say its the best. Front wheel drive just doesnt compete with rear for me.
My experience of bmws was the e36 variety (the code for the saloon, dont know about the tourer, sorry!) and the 3 series tourer was a barge. I regularly drove the 318 saloon, 323 coupe and the 328 tourer. The coupe was the best by far, but the estate was the most rapid in a striaght line. When it got to bends, oh dear. But its the only car i have managed to make the mother in law scream in (and that was in fright, before anyone makes a smutty comment).
i would suspect the new 3 series is the best "normal" car (have not driven it yet), but i would expect some of the extreme audis would win it outright.
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Probably a more balanced view than my biased one !
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Audi RS2 - end of debate.
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what about those TWR Volvo estates that competed in the BTCC in the early 90 just to make this post totaly silly
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Yes you're right, how foolish of us to suggest anything else....
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Wife's good at getting cars heavily chipped, blames it on Tescos car park :)
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I'm with BazzaBear. Mitsubishi Galant Estate (Legnum) VR-4. It has ABS, Auto Stability Control, Traction Control, Automatic Yaw Control. It has 260 or 280bhp, quad cam 24 valve 2.5 litre V6 engine, with twin turbos and 5 speed tiptronic-type auto trans. Most of its technology comes straight from the Lancer Evolution series. It has a front strut brace as standard, and is the best handling car I've driven. They're not common in the UK, but are very popular here in NZ. I get to drive my wife's VR-4. She liked the black leather interior and privacy glass. I looked under the bonnet and said, "I like it!"
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Merc C 320 cdi Sport Edtion?
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You guys are quoting cars with loads of grip though "best handling" implies a crisp turn in, stability, lots of driver feed back and hence enjoyable to drive around the twistys.
The RS4 clearly offers loads of grip and by all accounts satisfying involvement as well however other Quattros really only fall into the former category. I agree re the 3 Series and I would add C55 to the list however some more humble offerings should aslo be considered such as the Focus, all Foci offer great feed back and the superb handling ST170 was available as an estate.
I had a Vectra SRi V6 estate that was a fairly tidy handler and was supremely stable at high speed cornering such as m/way link roads taken at speed, M25 to M3 London bound, M25 to M40 Oxford bound etc, tanking up and down the A38 south of Exeter etc, the A30 from Okehampton to Launceton etc.
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Must say it, big engined Mondeo estate... but hadn't considered the RSx Audis and I must concur that thye were the dog's
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Thanks for the views.
I guess I meant which estates in general not ones which might do 20 miles a gallon or cost over £30,000.
Is the v70 really a barge? i thought i had read that they handled pretty well.?
thanks
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Last model Focus estate won't cost a fortune to buy or run. MIL-to-be has one as a 1.6 petrol with self-levelling suspension (an option on earlier cars, IIRC) which I've found fun and comfortable to drive, even on bad roads. FIL-to-be, who usually drives a BM 318, enjoys it too.
Just one caveat - its surprisingly slow to pick up speed in 4th/5th when you join a main road with two hefty hounds in the back!
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My 04 plate Legacy 2.5se cost me £13k from a Subaru dealer with 21k on the clock - loads of toys and the rest of its warranty. 27mpg on a busy 15mile commute in city traffic
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Yeah i like the Legacy alot but a few reviews I have read say it's a bit slow unless you the 3.0 version? Can you comment? maybe it 's just the auto box version.
I was thinking between the v70, Audi 6, the pug 406 maybe v40 later versions. BMW 5 series bit too small in back.
Focus too small at back.
basicly a fun estate for family but something that can be chucked around some.
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I haven't tried either old 'old' ('03-'06) 2 Litre Legacy or the new (more powerful, 2006 onwards) 2 Litre (which has replaced the 2.5). What I don know is that the 2.5 has 160-odd BHP / 167 lb/ft torque (similar to an Audi 2.4, I believe) and is plenty fast enough where it matters (i.e. for overtakes in real-life conditions - accompanied by a nice flat 4 growl). The auto is a bit blunted compared to a manual, which I've also driven, but I'm not bothered.
BUT, and it is a big but, the thing goes round corners as if it is on rails, so any gains a larger-engined vehicle might make on the straights tend to vanish as soon as the road gets twisty. Especially if it is wet. When the dogs aren't in the back of mine, I'm often amazed just how rapid the thing can be A-B.
You say you want something that can be chucked around a bit - I'd suggest you find a Subaru dealer and give one a go on a decent road. I did, and I bought one there and then. (Oh, and the dealers seem like an unusually nice bunch, too. Won't go into the attitude of the Audi salesman I came across....)
Davros
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I'm going to look at a T plate Legacy tomorrow but after reading the car-by-car breakdown on this site I'm wondering whether to bother. Seems they suffer from premature big end failure; anyone care to comment?
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I like to get to my destination as quickly as reasonably possible and I find it very quick when its handling comes into play, ie anywhere other than a straight line dash, although it's not exactly slow in that setting but there are quicker cars.
The low centre of gravity engine, low profile tyres and 4wd make it very quick when there any bends involved, especially when you put it into sport mode to overcome the fussy ratios in normal mode which annoy when say you join a motorway and want to pick up speed quickly but without flooring it.
If you can get a 24 hours test in one, then do so and you'll see how even in 2.5 guise it's a bit of a Q car. I haven't tried the 3.0 but I'd imagine its quiet hooligan potential will be very apparent. You probably won't see another on the road during that time and you have to factor in proven reliability and value for £ of the package.
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Re Legacies
You probably won't see another on the road during that time and you have to factor in proven reliability and value for £ of the package.
Saw 2 other Tourers and an Outback on my 30 mile stroll back through South Oxfordshire. Can't have 'em getting common or I'll have to trade it in :o)
Having said that try one - cracking value second hand, and 30mpg plus from a 2.5 might dampen the econnomy criticisms.
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"I was thinking between the v70, Audi 6, the pug 406 maybe v40 later versions. BMW 5 series bit too small in back."
The v70 is not fun (other than ..damentally boring) I always prefer to take our audi quattro. Agree the bm is far better for fun/enjoyment but is not a large car. (although I havent tried the e60 - maybe its better than the old models?)
V40 is a focus isnt it? Old v40 was a mitsubishi iirc.
A6 is a reasonable compromise in that it is bigger and in quattro form goes round corners, Agree with previous comments that it is a bit dull in handling terms.
Scooby handles v.well and is big. If they made a diesle then 'I would have bought one.
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3.0 peugeot 406. 210 bhp and 29mpg. I have been very pleased with my 1.8 estate although in this guise it is very sluggish. looking to get either a 3.0 or the 2.0 hpi version. suprisingly a good handler and relatively cheap too.
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For all the People who described the V70 as a barge have you actually driven one? I would certainly not call my fathers a barge by any means. On holiday this year in Spain I really struggled to keep up with him on twisty roads and he wasn't really pushing it. I know I was in a Kia Cerato, which didn't handle very well, but was still quick enough (1.5 CRDi).
Dad, despite being in his 80s, is quite a fast driver (and fairly aggressive I'm ashamed to say), and he has never moaned about the car at all (incidentally his hobbies used to include hill trials and rallying).
The Volvo has the added advantage of being an extremely comfortable long distance cruiser.
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yes, driven several and own one.
have you driven a bm 5 series, subaru, audi quattro, etc?
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Having owned several estate cars of different marques over the past 30 years, I feel slightly qualified to rate the Legacy as a front runner for 'best handling'.
My priorities now are to spend as little as possible on my daily transport and save as much as possible so I can retire early! My last R reg 2.0 litre Legacy estate (with about 115bhp) got me from A to Z with as much fun as you could wish. In real world driving, it was just as fast as my Elise (mid life crisis mobile for which I make no apologies) or Quattro (20V turbo-the last of the 'proper' ones- G646 JNV are you out there?). It was fantastically reliable, great in the wet, better in the snow (with proper tyres) and cost me £3,500! The interior was dull but that was not the OP's question.Not too rapid on the straights, but it would cruise all day at sensible speeds and the speed merchants who overtook me at warp factor 5 were invariably caught up within the next 30 miles...but that is modern traffic conditions.
ps With all the money in the world a Spec B would be in my garage, but I would be almost as happy with the new 2.5 Tourer.
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Yes, had two 54 reg ones in quick succession. They were totally awful to drive and badly built too.
Now have a Subaru Legacy - wonderful to drive and totally reliable.
Also have had Audi Avants - well built but never had an "RS" so weren't wonderful handlers.
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Mondeo ST 220/TDCI handles very well for a estate car - much better to drive than a normal A4 Avant.
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Audi A4s are not as bad as people say, but it is a firm ride, and the handling is a bit lifeless. Ditto a Passat, would rather have the Honda in terms of driveability any day.
The nice thing about the A4 is that although the handling isn't top notch on all but the specialist models, at least the estate doesn't drive any differently to the saloon. Whereas the Passat Estate is noticeably different. Handling is always a compromise, because in my area you dont want the stiff sports suspension and ultra low profile tyres because of the rough country lanes, and I find that when people say a car handles badly this usually means it is a good motorway cruiser.
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