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Went in to fill up at a filling station. Put in £20.00 of Super Unleaded and shut the flow off at exactly £20.00. Took finger off the trigger as normal. Put nozzle back into cradle and as I did so the display went to £20.02. Went into pay and I was asked for £20.02. Told the owner, he was on the till, what had happened and he was very sympathetic!!! He accepted my explanation and charged me £20.00. Has anyone else experienced the problem of displays running on after the nozzle has been put back into the pump? This is not an example of some old fart who cannot handle putting petrol into his car, I would like to know if anyone else has experienced the problem?
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The price goes up so quickly on the display nowadays that it takes the reactions of a computer game genius to stop dead on a round figure. When ever I go 1p over the intended amount, I always proffer just the notes to the cashier, and only once have I ever been asked for the extra penny.
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Quite a few pumps seem to suffer from 'surging', when someone stops filling at another pump. This can take you over your limit if it happens just as you are nearing it.
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You know that horrible feeling when you fill up, go to pay for the petrol and realise you are doshless ?
Well, its embarassing and a pain in the butt, but don`t let the garage give you any trouble.
It is illegal to go into a petrol station and fill up and knowing you cannot pay, or with the intention not to pay.
If that doesn`t apply to you, then you didn`t break the law.
If you choose, you can walk up to the cashier, tell them you have the money, but at the last minute you decided not to pay. Give the cashier your name and address and leave.
You are supposed to pay the bill eventually, but all the petrol station can do is write to you and ask you to pay, and if you don`t, take you to the civil court to enforce the debt.
I am not recommending this approach. But the last time I was in England I filled up about 500 yards from my parents place, having left my wallet at thier house.
I was intending to go back and get it, but their attitude was such that I sent them the check a week ago (3 months later), having refused to leave a deposit, having refused to go back that day or the next, and when threatened with the police offering to ring them myself.
Its all down to this "with the INTENTION to deprive the rightful owner" - so long as you didn`t intend.
And secondly, once it is in your car lawfully, it is yours. You are then simply settling a debt.
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I would be a bit careful about not paying for petrol...
S3 Theft Act states...
A person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods supplied or services done is required or expected from him, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with intent to avoid payment of the amount due is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or a fine not exceeding the prescribed sum, or to both.
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Always wonder just how accurate those pumps are. It says 10 litres on the machine but did i get 10 litres in my tank ? Do they calibrate these regularly?
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The local TSO (Trading Standards Officer) is responsible (under the guidance of UK Weights & Measures) for regularly calibrating pump dispensers. They should be (and are) checked both frequently and extremely accurately.
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Why can't pumps have a perfectly simple keypad where you punch in the amount you want and the pump does the rest? Surely not beyond the wit of today's techies? Even in the old days of mechanical pumps you used to be able to set them for a specific number of gallons.
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That's right, the attendant set the amount requested and wiped your screen while the pump got on with it!
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The ability to program a pump to dispense a specific quantity of fuel (a.k.a pre-pay) is possible and widely available in the U.S.A amongst other countries. My understanding is that it's not popular in the UK because a particular type of valve is required to guarantee the accuracy of the delivery. This valve is an expensive piece of kit so UK motorists are not offered the service.
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This technology already exists and is the standard means of dispensing fuel in Spain for example
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This "technology" was available at least 40 years ago. My dad had a filling and service station (Mobil) and the number of gallons of petrol/diesel was set before the start of delivery, it stopped automatically when it had dispensed that amount. Petrol was about 5/2 (about 26p) for Regular (2*), 5/3 for Premium and 5/5 for Super (5*).
As a youngster I helped pump fuel (not much self service then) and remember these pumps clearly. The main fun was finding the hidden filler caps (another thread maybe).
Later, in the early '70s I worked on another petrol station and this also had pumps that could be pre-set for x-number of gallons, the customers had started to get into the habit of asking for a £1s worth (just under 3 gallons) or multiples of monetry value.
IMHO, With the advent of almost universal Self-Service it is in the refuling station to "encourage" the motorist to fill it up to the top rather than setting an amount.
CV
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Bad English ALERT...
IMHO, With the advent of almost universal Self-Service it is in the refuling station>>>S BEST INTERESTS<<< to "encourage" the motorist to fill it up to the top rather than setting an amount.
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They have exactly that in Chile.
Dial in the amount and wander around until it stops automatically.
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Checked under the hood as well I recall. Thankfully in the Philippines we still have delightful young uniformed pump ladies who do all that, ask you if you want your tires checked, smile and say thank you for coming...sir. UK a service economy? Bulldust!
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I've had the display price increase by a few pence after the nozzle has been parked, it happened when I was the only customer. I have forgotten my wallet on a couple of occasions but had no hassle from the attendant - they have a printed form to fill in with details, asking you nicely to pay as soon as possible.
(Embarrassing, though!)
P.
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I have done my time as a spotty cashier at a filling station, I on at least 1 occasion nearly had the head lifted of my sholders by a customer as he got £30.02p of petrol and it went on his credit card bill, I tried to explain that our card machine was tied in with the till and I could not adjust the figure, he just got worse. I can undersatnd if you have to "break" a £20 note for the sake of 1 or 2p but to be so analy retentive as it might look out of place on your statement !?!
I would always keep over the odd pennies on top of the Till keyboard that people left behind on £x.99p bills and use these for when people went over and were paying by cash, the customer was happy and my till balanced at the end of the shift.
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I bet I've mentioned this "no cash" story before but it's worth repeating.
Like Big Vern I did a stint of nights at an A1 petrol station as a youth. One night an American serviceman from a local base appeared after filling up to say "sorry pal, my wallet is back at base".
I asked him to leave his watch, spare wheel or something and return but he refused and insisted on leaving his girlfriend! Yes really. What an odd half hour as we waited for him to get the loot.
Showed the value he put on her, slightly less than his spare wheel!
I was always dead fierce with anyone who hadn't the means to pay. Forget the legal aspect, it came out of your pay at the end of the week and was only credited when they paid up. One rather hopeless chap went down on the till to a greater amount than his wages and they made him pay the balance back to the firm and no pay.
That company were ruthless.
David
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With all the environmental uproar about how driving our cars is killing babies, destroying forests and mugging old ladies I'm always a little concerned at the amount of fuel that spills out of the pump nozzle as up go to put it into your tank and when you remove it.
Is there any information about the effect of all this fuel evaporating off the forecourts? I recall a 'Clarksonism' about a Porshe Turbo beening driven from Timbuctu to Dunny-on-the-Wold creating less pollution than a couple of drops of unleaded evaporating.....
When I was in Italy the attendants would always fill the car to the nearest big number of lira. One pump monkey was trying to fit 50000 lira of fuel into my car which has a tiny tank. He just let about 5000 liras worth cascade down the back of the car so he didn't have to give change.....
Piers
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Piers,
you are right to worry about spills from the pump. Levels of benzene in the atmosphere around petrol pumps can be very high.
That's why all new pumps in the US are fitted with a shroud which covers the whole of the filler neck. The shroud contains a vacuum tube which extracts any fumes and recycles them. Doesn't stop spills though.
My own car (which is US spec) has a sensor which measures differential pressure between tank and atmosphere. If the tank is not at negative pressure, the diagnostic system puts the 'Service Engine' light on. This happens quite frequently if you don't refit the cap tight enough after filling up.
Kevin...
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Steve G
I always fill up the motorbikes from cans at home.
When I refill these at the petrol station I always seem to easily be able to get 11 litres into a 10 litre can, or 5 litres into a gallon (4.54 litre) can.
It makes you wonder ?
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Some years ago, I did a proposal for a maker of petrol pumps, to provide test equipment for just that (they already did the tests, but wanted them streamlining). I remember being impressed with the degree of accuracy required (can't quote exactly, but I expect a weights and measures man can tell you). The pumps themselves were positive displacement units that would remain accurate as long as there wasn't any air in the system (which is what the sight glasses at the top of the hoses used to be for).
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Hired a Mustang in Las Vegas to get to Zion Canyon in Utah.
Went to fill up before my trip and put nozzle in the car, no petrol would come out of the pump !! Went inside to investigate and was informed that you had to pre-pay (and guess the amount of fuel you needed) if you used less than you had deposited you had to go back in again to get your change.
I just kept pumping and the fuel cut off when the deposit amount was reached.
I filled up normally later that day at a petrol station in Hurricane.
I guess so many people lose their shirt in Vegas that petrol theft was a problem so they introduced this system?
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That's quite common in the US.
Once you become a 'regular' and the attendants recognise you or the car, they just switch the pump on and let you pay when done.
Also, lots of pumps now have in-built credit card readers, pin pads and receipt printers so you can just swipe your card and pump away without even going inside (unless you want a six-pack as well).
Kevin...
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Outdoor Payment Terminals (OPT's) for payment at the pump are available in the UK now too, mainly at the supermarkets.
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Pre-pay is widely used across the U.S. Its purpose - as you poin t out - is to reduce so called 'pump and run' or 'driveaway' theft. Requires a sophisticated (i.e. expensive) valve so UK oil companies don't bother with it. Maybe if we all started pumping and running then we'd be provided with similar systems in the UK :-)
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Same experience with lawnmower fuel. No conspiracy just space for expansion/vapour.
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"intent to avoid" is an offence, "intend to pay at some indeterminate point later" is not.
In any case, I wasn`t recommending it as a tactic. But, however stuid I am for leaving my wallet at home, does not excuse them being rude, threatening with the police, threatening to syphon it out again, insisting I leave a watch as deposit etc.
They weren,t nice,
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Mark (in Brazil ) is quiet correct on the criminal law in highlighting there is no offence of making off without payment for petrol under the circumstanes he outlines.
As he states there MUST be an intention to permanently avoid payment and not merely an intent to delay or defer payment (R. v Allen 1985)
and very importantly there must be a "making off" and a departure from the spot where payment is requested (R v Brookes 1983).
DVD
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The reason this always goes over by one or two pence is that the attendant at the cash desk has a button under the counter top. He or she watches you carefully go up to £20.00 or what ever and then when you put the nozzle back in the pump they press the button and the pump clicks up one more penny (two pushes for two pence)
I recall this being admirably demonstrated by Not The Nine O'Clock News.
Cheers
Bill
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I've come across pre pay sites in some of the rougher parts of Liverpool and the NW. You pay up front at the barricaded till, then return to the pump where you get what you've paid for. Can't complain, really.
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