Don't get me wrong, I think identifying roads that are dangerous is a good thing, as there is obviously something wrong in the design to cause more than average crash numbers. But the A537 Macclesfield to Buxton is a windy road, loved by middle aged bikers, and it's they who are the majority of deaths on this particular road. Surely some roads are more popular because they are challenging to drive/ride?
Is this European name and shame idea one that the backroomers will endorse, as I have seen some quite vehement arguments on here against the EU in general?
www.eurorap.org/
Jonathan
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Article in today's Telegraph:
portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2...l
I wonder how many of the featured roads have speed cameras? I know several of the roads on the list quite well and I would agree that a borderline inept driver could quite easily get into serious trouble on any of them.
I suspect many of the Scottish fatalities are tourists who are too busy admiring the countryside to pay attention to the road ahead. However, other than rearranging the scenery to get rid of the mountains, rivers etc there isn't a lot you can do about this....
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Number three on the list is the A12 Romford - M25.
When the M11 was built around 20 years ago provision was made for a M12 spur which would bypass this section.
The spur provisions are clearly visible at Woodford.
Lack of funding and politically correct politics killed this off.
It seems that it has also killed off a lot of innocent people.
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Notice the way they are once again using the emotive phrase 'killed or seriously injured' to inaccurately over-dramatise a figure. "1,408 people Dead/seriously injured per billion vehicle miles" implies that more people were killed than were seriously injured when in fact the number of dead is less than 5% of the total.
HJ
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#5 A628: A616-Penistone
I used to live just off this road, and there is a really tight bend on it, but I'm surprised to find it on the list - certainly an easier road than the routes to Holmfirth down huge "Last of the Summer Wine" bath on wheels type hills.
There is a speed camera on the road, but only on straight 30mph bit through Thurlstone.
Perhaps the statistics are more to do with the road being out in the countryside and away from plod, ideal territory for Nova racing.
Lee.
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Lee,
the road they are referring to in the report is the Stocksbridge bypass, linking the M1 J35A to Woodhead.
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Thanks Kevin,
I was thinking about it, and what you say makes sense. Past McDonalds on the M1 side right? In fact a McDonalds at both ends as I recall. The description they give is misleading though; I'm sure it's >4.5 miles.
That stretch of road is really quite horrible to drive if you've got a slightly underpowered car (like a 1.6 Xantia) as even lorries end up on your tail end. Blind bends, hills, poor cats-eyes, huge drops, 38 tonnes of idiot on your tail.....
And I must have seen half a dozen serious accidents there on a Sunday night as I returned home from the North West.
Regards,
Lee.
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Lee,
Yup, you got it. My parents live near Bolsterstone at the other side of the valley so I know the road fairly well.
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HJ
At least "Killed/Seriously Injured" takes account of the fact that the gap between death and serious injury may be millimetres in the position of the injury or seconds in the arrival of assistance.
However, I agree that any description should be non-emotive and something like simply "Serious Accident Casualties" would be better.
The stats. also take no account of the number of accidents. One coachload may account for thirty serious casualties in a single accident and therefore skew the figures.
Regards
Brian
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It is having people driving beyond their capabilities/carelessly that make these roads dangerous.You cannot legislate for the T!@t who will injure himself/others. I suggest we raise the driving age to 20 (and lower all our premiums) and limit the capacity of the engine a 20 yo can drive to 1L for the first five years for starters.
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It is interesting to note that police are saying the figures are skewed as they are "old".
Yeah, as far back as 1997!
Oddly, police use "older" figures to "justify speed camera installations!
And why are police commenting? Surely anything which genuinely makes road safer is to be applauded. Perhaps they think it detracts from Speed Kills campaign.
I do however doubt the contention that 2000 lives could be saved with road improvements. Life is a killer disease.
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Credit(infamy?) should also be duly given to those individuals responsible for planning our road layouts and motorway maintenece programs. Two examples will suffice:
1)The approach to the Runcorn Bridge from the South of the Mersey - because the bridge is hopelessly inadequate to deal with peak volumes ( and has been for at least ten years) the road layout designers,in their infinite wisdom, have liberally sprinkled the approaching six lanes of expressway/ local roads with 'cop out arrows' painted on the road in snowpake, ie. ' this lane is about to merge somewhere round the next sharp bend so you're on your own chum'. The resulting daily chaos and additional stress in getting to work will keep the local NHS waiting lists healthy for years to come..
2)The M60/M602 junction where slip roads serve as both entry and exit routes on a stretch of motorway from Eccles to the Whitefield junction which has been known for years locally as 'Death Valley'.
Rarely can so large a body of (Road Fund Tax/Fuel Duty) payers have been so badly let down by poor planning and ostrich-like foresight as the British Motoring Public.
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I also wonder whether the definition of "Serious Injury" has remained constant.
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Several things spring to mind here.
Firstly I have seen no mention anywhere on the news that this study is exclusively about roads *outside* urban areas. So the gullible public might think the most dangerous road is some back road in the highlands and accuse rude boy Novas and bikers of being the problem when in fact the most dangerous road is probably just around the corner from their home or school.
Secondly lets give credit where its due. The A38 in Staffordshire used to be acknowledged amongst professional accident investigators as one of the most dangerous roads in the entire UK. Its now a 3 star road acc to the Eurap study, and the limit is still 70, so as I say credit where its due please.
Thirdly, interesting to see the E4 in Sweden as mostly 4 and 3 star along its entire length. I've commented before about this road particularly the innovative way it uses three lane sections that Lincolnshire could emulate with quite a few 0 star roads in its territory.
(Note for anyone who has not visited the Eurap site more stars the better, bit like the crash testing results.)
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The most dangerous road I know of is the A5, south of Wrexham. It's a wide 3 lane road and of course, drivers going in both directions seem to think they have the right of way to overtake - right down the middle lane. The number of times I have seen crashes and near misses along that stretch. Sheeesh.
I drove onto the grass verge on one occasion, as I could see an upcoming shunt ahead.
Luckily the driver of a Volvo swerved back to the nearside in time and missed th other car by about 12 inches.
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The Oswestry by-pass is bad and I can't understand why they did not build a dual carriageway. You can (and I have been caught) fit 4 cars abreast just.
Or what is really not clever is when you are overtaking someone, some idiot (usually driving an Impreza) will overtake you at the same time!
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As an Uncle of mine once said of 3-lane roads:
One lane for the up traffic, one lane for the down traffic, and one lane for the accidents.
regards
John
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"Killed and seriously injured": I believe these are the definitions. I do stand ready to be corrected.
Killed = dead within 30 days of the accident.
Seriously injured = kept in hospital overnight. If you are unconscious for any time, this is compulsory. Also, a broken bone (finger?) requiring any kind of operation.
However, most people would probably think of a much tighter definition. I'm not arguing with the definition - there has to be one, after all, but the words used don't really reflect the definition.
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In reality is there such a thing as a dangerous road?
The A66 Scotch Corner - Penrith Road has been dubbed a 'Killer' Road for years
being a mixture ot undulating single and dual carriageway. Principle accidents are head on collision when drivers attempt to overtake when it is is clearly not safe to do so. You can hardly blame the road for that. Sure improvements can be made but at the end of the day it is down to the individual Driver to get from point A to B safely by exercising good driver skills , forward observations and geared to speed.
Or have we now reached the stage when we should be ratcheted onto a chain and moved about on a giant escalator. Come to think of it some drivers are already for this.
DVD
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DVD,
Roads can be inherently dangerous.
I watched a documentary some time ago where a female rally driver was touring the country to see how local highways engineers had improved roads with a high accident rate.
They had a lot of success.
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The A666 (what a lovley number!) has a reputation for accidents etc. Runs between Edgeworth (Bolton) and Darwen. I have travelled this road for years and have never actually seen an accident or wreckage or downed walls/fences, but there are signs saying X number of accidents over the last few years and has traffic "calming" devices at the Bloton end, no cameras at the Black Spots but has them in the 30 limited urban area where there has never been an an accident.
Some times there are bunches of flowers tied to fences, though I read in the local paper that the council were accused of waisting money putting these "tributes" where no accident had actually happend... (alledgedly).
How true this is, I'm not sure, but I have asked myself "How the heck did someone crash there?" and can't come up with a logical answer.
CV
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I remember when the A303 had those dreadful "shared" middle lanes. A marked lane, supposedly for over taking from either direction, albeit that one direction had priority.
I saw so many accidents, and damn near had one myself right by the top Ottery St Mary exit, where the shared lane continued over a blind hill.
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Fully agree with you on three lane single carraigeway roads, Mark. Haverfordwest has just such a road leading out towards Milford Haven, which is notorious for head-on fatals. These roads have been mainly phased out over the years as they are well known to be unsafe but the new bypass to the ferry at Fishguard, built in the last two years has just such a design. This is despite Pembs CC and the local press campaigning to get the Highways Agency to alter the layout of the three lane road at nearby Haverfordwest.
There are some spectacular geniuses in employment at public expense.
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Three lanes -left, right and dead centre as the old saying goes! Near me the Evesham by-pass (A46) has only two lanes, both fairly wide. So the common practice is to overtake down the white centre line, which works reasonably well on two conditions. 1) the other traffic in both directions keeps well over to the left, and 2) no-one is overtaking in the other direction! People risk their (and others') lives to get to the next roundabout 5 seconds sooner. Badly designed road encourages risk-taking.
Safe motoring,
Pat
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The A303 stretch you mention Mark has been changed - now double white lines. Only traffic going up the hill can use the centre lane. (I think this is the stretch your on about , near A350 turn off ?).
Sometimes roads which have danger/blackspot signs can have the effect of 'red rag to a bull'. I'm sure some riders/drivers treat these twisty sections as a challenge hence the accidents.
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The centre lane of three lanes also known as the "Coroners Corridor".
Andrew.
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Nearside lane, Offside lane & Suicide lane
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This is something I posted about 3 lane roads way back in june 01, it was in response to a moan from Brian about sitting on a decent road @ 45 where overtaking opportunities had been reduced by ghost islands and white lines. The road I am talking about here is the E4 in Sweden the main N-S route almost the equivelant of UK M1 but due to lowere population density varies between dual and single carriageway.
Posted by moi.
"Actually to add a bit to the overtaking opportunity restricted more by white lines than actual visibility reminds me of a road I drove on earlier this week. It was in Scandinavia and is three lane. However not like the stupid three lanes in UK, ie one lane each way and one in the middle for the driver with the biggest cojones, but there was a narrow central reservation with a tensioned wire barrier. The road was two lanes one way one lane the other, and the direction with two lanes changed about every 1.5 miles. The result was that there were no long queues behind slow traffic and hence no tailgating, and there was no need for risky overtaking because you knew you were going to get a good shot in another couple of minutes. "
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>>Only traffic going up the hill can use the centre lane. (I think this is the stretch your on about , near A350 turn off ?).
I think that's the one. If you take that turning and then turn left at the next junction it takes you down into OSM ?
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