just wondering how i could go about improving my brakes? ive replaced pads, discs,drums, shoes and fluid. The pedal feels good....no juddering but just feels like theres no bite there. I dont think its brake fade either because it does it when brakes are hot or cold.
Thanks
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Mentioning what car it is might help as poor brakes might be common on that particular model.
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Its a 306 td 1995. {added to subject header - DD}
The other thing to mention is that i adjusted the handbrake so that it was spot on. Nice and tight on 2 clicks and both wheels running free and balanced when it was off. This made a bit of an improvement to the braking but now it feels like theres no bite.
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Is the servo-assistance working properly?
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If you have only just changed all the parts, then they are probably still bedding in. If you didn't use genuine pads, that could also cause the problem, having bought a car some years ago fitted with whatever the local fast-fit outfit supplied. All I did was fit genuine pads & the brakes returned to normal. Interestingly, I would also have described the effect as being like brake fade but without the causes being present.
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Is it not a case that being French it would have originally been made for the left hand drive market and some brake efficency is lost due to the right hand conversion where the linkages are longer from the pedal to the brake master cylinder?
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DD - on all the 306s I have owned the servo is in front of the driver, and (having just looked under the bonnet) there is no matching recess in the left-hand bulkhead to fit it there. So do French 306s have soggier brakes, I wonder?
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If the slack was taken up on the handbrake cable and the shoes not adjusted it can give soggy brakes. I would slacken the cable right off and adjust the shoes up and then take up slack. 2 clicks sounds a bit tight to me....
Also could be split diaphraph in the vac pump..brake pedal should drop slightly when pressure applied and engine started.
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my monies on MIKE H.
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\"a little man in a big world/\"
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If the slack was taken up on the handbrake cable and the shoes not adjusted it can give soggy brakes. I would slacken the cable right off and adjust the shoes up and then take up slack. 2 clicks sounds a bit tight to me.... Also could be split diaphraph in the vac pump..brake pedal should drop slightly when pressure applied and engine started.
Due to my Haynes telling me to tighten the handbrake via the centre console i did wonder if this might stretch the cable if the shoes themselves wernt adjusted enough.
Would slackening the cable and adjusting the shoes up (then taking the slack off the cable) bring the shoes more into action and give better braking on the back end?
I had the same problem with gf's 106 (poor braking) i tightened the rear shoes and handbrake and they were 100 times better.
is it possible that the contact between shoe and drum isnt brilliant? The servo seems fine by the way
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You could always upgrade to the GTi6 or GTi 18- brake set-up.
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>>Would slackening the cable and adjusting the shoes up (then taking the slack off the cable) bring the shoes more into action and give better braking on the back end?
Yes, it's generally good practice to make sure that the handbrake is slackened before adjusting the shoes inside the drum.
Then, once you're happy with the free operation of the wheel cylinders (and you're sure they aren't leaking!) and sure the handbrake linkage isn't siezed up, and you've got the shoes nicely adjusted, you can then set up the handbrake cable.
Number_Cruncher
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sorry to be a pain. As the story goes pug 306 1.9td 1995 new brake, pads, discs, shoes, drums and fluid. Still have poor braking though. I slackened the handbrake right off and adjusted the shoes as much as i could so the brakes wernt binding. Just wondered if anyone else has qured poor braking because im out of ideas. The servo is fine by the way
thanks
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Has it always been bad? I recall reading that some cars, designed to be LHD, had problems with braking performance when altered for the RHD drive market because of extra mechanical linkages which have to be used to take the forces from the RHD pedal to the LHD braking system - if you follow that poor explanation? Ie, it is a conversion problem for all RHD cars of a particular model and not necessarily something peculiar to just your own car.
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How many miles driven since new parts fitted,they do take a while to bed in!
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Steve
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I used to have a Fiat Regata 85S with the same problem. No amount of overhauling, new pads and brake fluid etc made any difference.
It was as bad as the square shaped VW Polo without servo assistance for the brakes and equally as frightening.
It wasn't just my Regata either - all the others I drove seemed to suffer the same malady.
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What's for you won't pass you by
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>>The servo is fine by the way
How did you check this? Are you sure that the vacuum pump is working correctly? This would be a real rarity; but have you checked that the servo air filter is clear?
Is the linkage between the pedal and the input rod free?
During the brake fluid change, did the fluid pump out freely?
The reason I ask, is that once the hydraulic system, pad, shoes, discs and drums are OK, there isn't much else to consider!
Number_Cruncher
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thanks for all the replies. When i bled the brakes i changed on blocked bleed nipple but then it pumped nice and free. I used a one way valve system when bleeding so im confident its free from air. Its done about 2000 since new parts were put on so i think they would be bed in. Im wondering if the front pads (Cost £20) need to be changed for genuine or better quality pads?
As for the servo the only check ive done its to pump the brake to make it firm with the engine off and it depresses when its switched on. Id appreciate any other checks without taking off the master cylinder.
Thanks for all the replies.
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As for the servo the only check ive done its to pump the brake to make it firm with the engine off and it depresses when its switched on. Id appreciate any other checks without taking off the master cylinder.
I would have done exactly the same. Sorry, I have run out of ideas!
Good luck,
Number_Cruncher
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I don't know what £20 buys for this model, but the absolute golden rule on brake pads and shoes is to buy the best. At Euro Car Parts they supply a number of different makes. I have always been amazed that anyone would not fit a well known top make. The difference in price is a few quid. Given the hassle of changing them, and the safety factor, and the longer life, the £5-8 is nothing. Also the satisfaction of a good 'feel' to the peddle is wonderful.
I too had an early non-servo VW Polo. The brakes were simply too small. The disks were an amazingly small size, about 9 inches. What did help was fitting good DON pads (Do they still exist?). Instant good 'feel' to the peddle, and better stopping power.
Also consider even if you use a one way valve, air can be sucked in on the up-stroke via the nipple threads. If you use an Easibleed, fresh fluid under 20 lbs of pressure easily purges the air out. Moreover, you can confirm this by physically seeing it go via a translucent pipe until no air is present, and all bubbles have gone.
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just a thought but could check that the brake pressure distribution valve on the back axle isn't seized as this seems to happen quite often
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Are you 100% sure there is no air left in the system after you bled the brakes?
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stick some mintex 1144 pads in, the td brakes arent that good though. I swapped mine for gti6 and now swapping again for newer 307 calipers.
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Have you checked the flexible hoses?
And replaced them all?
If not you should - at 11 years old they can swell with pressure and give the symptons you describe.
Had similar problems with 12 year old Fiesta.. one pipe after removal was found to have inner lining of pipe breaking up (on dissection)..
madf
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