This is a transcript of the Budget relating to cars.
While half of carbon emissions come from buildings, a quarter come from vehicles.
So today I want to do more to encourage cleaner fuels and cars. I propose to radically reform vehicle excise duty.
I am introducing, to take effect tomorrow, a zero rate for a small number of cars with the very lowest carbon emissions which will pay no duty at all; and instead of £75 for cars with low emissions, significantly lower rates of £40.
Duty rates from today will be zero, £40, and then £100, 125, 150, 190 up to a new band of £210 for the small number of new cars that are the most polluting, 1pc of all cars - this will help pay for 5 million more fuel efficient cars to have their duty cut.
As a result of our decisions, and at an eventual cost of £10 million a year to the exchequer, the duty paid on 50pc of cars will be frozen or reduced from tomorrow.
Instead of just 300,000 motorists paying £100a year or less, 3 million will now pay £100 or less.
To further reduce carbon emissions, 5pc of fuel will be made from bio-fuels by 2010. And I can announce new support and incentives that will, with the 20p duty differential, by 2008, be worth up to a 35p per litre.
It is our policy that each year fuel duties should rise at least in line with inflation, as we seek to meet our targets for reducing emissions and to fund our public services. But for the fourth successive Budget, because of high and volatile prices in the oil market, i propose to defer the usual inflation increase until September 1st.
I will maintain the duty differential for rebated oils.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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Sounds good to me.
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Has petrol gone up?
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No. Duty will remain the same until September.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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No. Duty will remain the same until September. --
Or, to put it another way: Yes. But they're putting it up a few months late, in the hope that this convinces us it's not going up at all.
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I'm not exactly sure what this means.
The BBC summary of the Budget speech, for "Most Polluting" said "4x4's"
However, this isn't what the chancellor said, and, also, isn't always true, e.g. Toyota RAV 4 has one of the lowest CO2 emission levels of any vehicle.
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The 4x4 stuff was the usual media spin whipped up by the usual suspects in the usual right wing press. Car tax is based on emissions, it just so happens that the majority of off road vehicles (some 'normal' cars are 4x4) happen to have higher emissions levels than 2 wheel drive cars, but this does not mean all 4x4s pollute more than 2 wheel drive vehicles. Regardless of how many wheels are driven if your car has high emissions you will pay more road tax. It's not such a difficult concept to understand.
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"Regardless of how many wheels are driven if your car has high emissions you will pay more road tax. It's not such a difficult concept to understand."
Unless one happens to be a journalist with an agenda... ;)
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"While half of carbon emissions come from buildings, a quarter come from vehicles."
And what about aircraft?
madf
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Car are taxed on their CO2 emmissions, so you should check which band you are in.
I believe the new duty rates the Chancellor quoted apply to petrol engines.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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I'm not exactly sure what this means. The BBC summary of the Budget speech, for "Most Polluting" said "4x4's"
From the Treasury website:
To further strengthen environmental incentives, the Government announces the introduction of a new higher band of Graduated VED (band G) for the most polluting new vehicles (those above 225g of CO2 per kilometre) registered after 22 March 2006, set at £210 for petrol cars
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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>>To further strengthen environmental incentives, the Government announces the introduction of a new higher band of Graduated VED (band G) for the most polluting new vehicles (those above 225g of CO2 per kilometre) registered after 22 March 2006, set at £210 for petrol cars>>
Has anyone, by chance, mentioned these points to a certain John Prescott and other ministers who have been using such cars for years?
Hypocrisy just ain't a strong enough word.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Sounds good to me.
>>
Oh yes
Autoexpress says in
tinyurl.com/kqxrr
A zero rate VED was granted for vehicles which fall into band A (which in 2004, according to the Government' s own statistics, amounted to just 374 vehicles.)
The SMMT has listed some of the cars affected by new rate of tax:
* BMW 130i automatic petrol: 226 g/km
* Chrysler PT Cruiser 2.4 hatch automatic: 251 g/km
* Citroën C5 3.0i V6 automatic petrol: 238 g/km
* Fiat Stilo 2.4 20v manual petrol: 231 g/km
* Ford Galaxy 2.8i CD-V6 24v manual petrol: 259 g/km
* Honda Accord tourer 2.4i-VTEC Ex (ADAS) automatic petrol: 229 g/km
* Mazda 6 2.3 MPS manual petrol: 245 g/km
* Peugeot 407 SportsWagon 3.0 V6 automatic petrol: 236 g/km
* Renault Espace 3.5V6 24v automatic petrol: 292 g/km
* Toyota Previa 2.4 vvt-i automatic petrol: 259 g/km
* Vauxhall Signum 2.8i V6 24v turbo manual petrol: 257 g/km
* Vauxhall Vectra 3.2i V6 24v 5 dr hatch automatic petrol: 252 g/km
* Volkswagen Sharan 2.0 automatic petrol: 264 g/km
* Volvo V70 2.4 automatic petrol: 231 g/km
* Volvo S80 T6 executive automatic: 268 g/km
www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=219157
Owners of cars emitting 100g/km of carbon dioxide or less won't pay any road tax road tax each year, although this will only beneft 400 drivers in the UK that either own a Honda Insight hybrid or imported diesel Smart Fourtwo.
No new model currently on sale has low enough emissions to qualify for this zero tax rating - Toyota's Prius comes closest at 104g/km.
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Can someone please explain what the "20p duty differential" is ?
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Soupytwist !
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So can we have examples of the vehicles that will now be hit by the new top rate car tax?
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Always good to see a clear & concise piece of information, from the Government.
NOT!!
VB
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Is there a list of what car falls into what bracket?
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Is there a list of what car falls into what bracket?
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Not a list to read, but to find out what category a particular car is in go to
www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/ved/
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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>>Not a list to read, but to find out what category a particular car is in go to>>
The same, incredibly out of date, web page declares:
"Use air-conditioning sparingly - running air-conditioning continuously will increase fuel consumption significantly."
Now that's in direct and the usual recommendation, including by HJ, to keep it on permanently to protect and lubricate the system...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Now that's in direct and the usual recommendation, including by HJ, to keep it on permanently to protect and lubricate the system...:-)
My car's handbook says to turn off the aircon when it is not required. I take that as the definitive authority with respect to my car.
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L\'escargot.
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Audi A3 3.2 Quattro
Audi S4
Pretty much any A6
Discovery
Range Rover
Mondeo 3 litre
Lexus GS450
Pretty much anything quick or big basically.
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The press notice on tax changes is here.
Fuel up by 1.25p/litre from September. Modest increase in the higher (capacity based) VED for pre 2001 cars, no change for lower capacity. Differential increases for post 2001 cars with emissions based VED weighted towards those at top end. Emissions category is on the V5 and manfrs specs and no doubt in tabular form at the cost of a bit of googling.
Not rocket science.
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Can someone please explain what the "20p duty differential" is ? -- Soupytwist !
Tax on fossil road fuels is 47p/litre. Tax on renewable biofuels is 27p/litre. Thats the 20p difference between the two rates.
Will be interesting to see what incentives they have planned get it up to 5% biofuel usage by 2010, when its currently about 0.2%! (Last estimate I heard).
Rich.
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Will this be an added incentive to those who use veg oil to power their diesels? As understand to be legal you're supposed to pay your 47p for every litre of veg oil used as a car fuel, I guess as a "renewable biofuel" this should drop to 27p per litre?
M.
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Will this be an added incentive to those who use veg oil to power their diesels? As understand to be legal you're supposed to pay your 47p for every litre of veg oil used as a car fuel, I guess as a "renewable biofuel" this should drop to 27p per litre? M.
Yes people were buying veg. oil with zero VAT on it and using it as fuel (which they still are if theyre not telling anyone), which upset HM revenue and customs so they decided to class it as an alternative fuel, not a biofuel, so set duty at 47%. They said it is not a biofuel because it has not been processed beyond a food grade product, and cannot be used in all cars without modification. A load of rubbish just to get their hands on more revenue.
AFAIK there are people lobbying the Govt. to get veg. oil re-classified as a biofuel to get the 27% tax, but it remains to be seen when this will happen..
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Sorry in post above I put 27%/47% when I meant p/litre. Which as of yesterday is obviously now 28.35p/litre and 48.35p/litre...
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Duty rates from today will be
>>
those figures apply only to cars registered after sept.2001
summary offical tables at
www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/budget/budget_06/press_noti...m
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those figures apply only to cars registered after sept.2001
>>
:: correction :: march 2001 (not sept.2001).
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Does it really matter.
Are people who spend around 30k on a car really bothered about an extra 100 quid a year or so on on road tax?
what a waste of time and effort.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Not even that - the biggest increase at the top is £45 a year.
But on the other hand, at least the relative differentials are now bigger. Someone with a Land Cruiser will now be paying 7 times as much VED as me, rather than merely 2.5 times as much.
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Can someone ask Gordon Brown to mention Mondeos, Clios and ZXR 1100's specifically in his next speech so I know where I stand!
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Here, perhaps Brown and Blair are Backroomers, perhaps Artful Dodger is Tony Blair and Roger is just a pseudonym, perhaps Turbodog is really Gordon Brown!
;-)
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Sorry, in hindsight my last post was too daft, oh for an edit button!
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Here's a scheme that could really make people think twice:
CO2 g/Km <100 100 120 140 160 180 200 220 240 260 280 300
RFL Costs £000 050 063 079 099 124 155 194 243 304 380 475
Now that would make a difference! Maybe Gordon is working up to that but doesn't want to upset too many people before the next general election - assuming he will be boss by then?
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Sorry, in hindsight my last post was too daft, oh for an edit button!
Possibly certifiable!!
Cheddar, my OP was done on an information only basis - hence no direct comment.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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Does it really matter. Are people who spend around 30k on a car really bothered about an extra 100 quid a year or so on on road tax?
No it won't bother them. But it will make low emissions cars much more attractive to others. So those running low emissions cars will save money at the expense of the dim and rich.
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>> Duty rates from today will be >> those figures apply only to cars registered after sept.2001 summary offical tables at www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/budget/budget_06/press_noti...m
There's something wrong somewhere. Last October I was charged £165 for my 03/03 VED band E (170 g/km) petrol car, but the table says the new rate will remain unaltered at £150. I'll pay it whatever it is, but I can't help being curious about the apparent discrepancy in the figures.
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L\'escargot.
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It's another total con by Brown. Currently there are no vehicles in the lower band of 100g per km that I have found so far. Even the prius is at 104g/km.
If you click on the Band A in the table on the emissions database it says 'sorry no manufacturers meet your requirements'.
It is a bunch of spin and twaddle. CO2 emissions from vehicles is less than that from domestic activities ie heating, lighting etc and a quarter of that from power generation. As usual the great british public will swallow this bull without thinking. Sadly decades of underfunding in the education system means the majority are too thick to care about the truth.
teabelly
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It's another total con by Brown.
Sure looks like it.
>>Currently there are no vehicles in the lower band of 100g per km that I have found so far.
There are no new cars on current "lists for sale"
But see my posting above for those that ARE available in the lower band. Have a guess before you look?
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The new bands are conveniently tabulated here:
www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/taxation.htm
and the emissions including CO2 in g/km can be downloaded for all cars on sale here:
vcacarfueldata.org.uk/downloads/latest.asp
in MS Access/MS Excel/CSV formats.
Historic tables for cars not now on sale are also on that site.
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So we all have to go out and buy a Toyota Prius then?!
I presume their owners won't be paying any Road Tax at all.
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Well of course is meant to be symbolic, and in itself, its small change. However, it may set a precedent. Duty on the 225's may rise to something significant like £5,000, over say 3 years. Also a social tax. For instance driving and parking on the pavement, disabled badge blagging, chevron-blindness and other anti-social usages that for a large, powerful, high drag coefficient car, is de rigeur. Say a 10x multiplier for starters:)
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It's still a joke when neither of those cars are imported into the UK officially at the moment! A few hundred people get free road tax and thousands will get it hiked. Typical brown economics if you ask me..... It's like raising the stamp duty to 125k when the average house costs £200k and the average first time buyer has to spend £140k. It's no more than gesture politics. The biggest co2 producer is the power generation industry but I don't see taxes on those companies.
teabelly
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MADF wrote "And what about aircraft?"
No-one else has picked that up. Aircraft leave con-trails, which could either reflect sunlight and cool us, or trap heat and warm us. Are there any clear thinkers amongst us who can sort that ?
My car does 183 g/km, that puts me in Band E, £150.00 per year, same as last year. But, I don't think I've left any con-trails yet
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4834480.stm
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A 225 g/km £210
Jaguar X type 2.0 petrol saloon auto (239 g/km)
Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe 3.6 litre petrol (269 g/km)
Renault Espace 2 lite petrol (229 g/km)
BMW X5 4.8 litre petrol (324 g/km)
Range Rover 4.4 V8 petrol auto (389 g/km)
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Air travel produces about 200g CO2 per passenger mile, not much different to a car with one person in it. I recently flew 1600 miles to Italy and back for £30. In the car 1600 miles would cost me about £90 in fuel tax alone at 40mpg. Work that one out.
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It would appear that my Omega (30ish MPG for me) is in the 1% most polluting category. I'm past the limit by a long chalk, as well, not just scraping over it at a massive 276g/km.
Little did I know that I drove a gas-guzzling 4x4.
V
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And it seems that my 'gas-guzzling 4x4' (® HM Govt, 2006) is no longer a 'gas-guzzling 4x4'®, but is instead an ordinary band F car... Scraping in at 223g/km!
Can I sue for.. how about libel??
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Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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It's quite simple.
You paid £30 but a lot of people on that same flight would have paid considerably more.
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>>Are there any clear thinkers amongst us who can sort that ?>>
This will prove of great interest:
tinyurl.com/5hyoq
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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I don't think some of the above links in this thread have been updated yet. One site says my car tax will be £165:-
www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/ved/
but another says it's gone up to £190:-
snipurl.com/6z65
Looking elsewhere confirms the www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/ved/ link has not yet been updated.
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I didn't realise before that diesel cars attract a higher VED than petrol cars for the same emissions band. I wonder why that is?
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L\'escargot.
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I didn't realise before that diesel cars attract a higher VED than petrol cars for the same emissions band. I wonder why that is?
Its kind of an each-way bet by the treasury, a diesel contributes less in fuel duty so more in VED. You can call it anything from a sensible fiscal policy to a scandal depending on your perspective.
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This is a transcript of the Budget relating to cars. While half of carbon emissions come from buildings.........
Whatever happened to smokeless zones? The carbon that comes out of my neighbour's chimney has to be seen to be believed.
So today I want to do more to encourage cleaner fuels and cars. I propose to radically reform vehicle excise duty.
I can't imagine that either the actual level of VED or the change will alter most people's car buying habits.
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L\'escargot.
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He doesn't want to change our habits - just take more money off us.
If he really wanted to change our habits there would be a bigger hike on VED (e.g. £1000 or more for these vehicles) he would have removed the cap on the BIK C02 table and put more on fuel but he didn't because he wants to be PM and doesn't want to upset the voters who depend on Jaguar, Land Rover, TVR, Rolls Royce, Bentley, BMW etc.
BTW my large family estate has CO2 emissions of 153 - am I being libelled (or is it slandered?).
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I see that the allowable expenses for moving home are still at £8k (not changed for god only knows how long) - with the biggest element of the cost of moving now being stamp duty.
No wonder (motoring link) so many people commute so far rather than moving house!
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People who run these gas guzzlers already pay more tax in the form of fuel duty, since their cars do less mpg. This is like a third tax (the other two being the duty, and VAT on the petrol price and the duty).
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If you are paying £50K for a big 4x4 will it make the owner change his/her mind about £220 RFL? They probably pay £400-£500 / mth on Petrol so an extra £50 a year is pointless.
Petrol should be upped by XXp per litre and the actual RFL be a nominal £10 / year - enough to pay for the DVLA Computer & the Post Office to Check MoT & Insurance. Then BUMP UP the fines for no Insurance MoT & RFL to Hundreds per offence so that avoiding paying for RFL, MoT or insurance becomes pointless.
Currently driving around with no RFL & no Insurance might save people spending up to £2,000 / year. Getting caught they are fined £100-£250 ( As there are next to no Traffic Police it is unlikely unless they have an accident or attract police attention for AN Other reason).
Putting the RFL cost on to petrol means the more you drive or the bigger the engine the more you pay at the petrol pump. Progressive taxation and light car users pay less rather than a flat rate.
Collecting Petrol tax is easy as there are a limited no of Petrol Companies and the Govt is not chasing Millions of punters for £0 to £220.
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"Bump up the fines to £00s"
And when the finee is on State Benefit and can't and won't pay?
Sorry but that is no real solution... sounds nice on paper .. but not real world. (at least not real world as it currently is. If State Benefits were conditional upon not regularly breaking the law.. but they ain't).
The whole issue is of course pure political bluster. Airlines pollute and use fuel and how much tax do they pay on fuel? Nil. But taxing fuel for aircraft will be difficult to enforce without losing a lot of airtraffic and upsetting voters.
I would agree that if GB was really green, then tax would be based on Retail Selling Price as a %.. so a £600k Mclaren would pay say £6k a year whilst a £10k Fiesta £100.. Yes 1% of RSP seems about right.. Politically? A dodo..
madf
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One way or another Brown will keep the revenue coming in. Interesting about freezing the tax on champagne. Could this be because champagne has just been added to the basket of goods used to calculate consumer price inflation?
Surely not...
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But why cider?Still,shouldn't complain,off to the park bench for the afternoon.
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I think he mentioned in the speech that freezing the tax on champagne was to make the World Cup celebrations a bit easier this summer.
So we're suppposed to believe that a Scot is helping to reduce the price of English World Cup celebrations this summer. I think not, unless it's some form of elaborate joke. Which it might be.
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Soupytwist !
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The budgets are for work shy layabouts that get annoyed that they can't afford a 4x4 so GB taxes it to make them happy. They all vote labour as he gives them billions in tax credits and disability benefits so they can sit around on their ever expanding rear end. If he put taxes on air travel they wouldn't be able to afford the holidays abroad each year on easyjet or whatever low cost airline. They aren't forced to commute long distances to have a decent job, or continually move house to avoid commuting long distances to have a decent job so they can at least afford to feed and clothe their children which aren't brought up on benefits. More fool them as staying at home doing nothing with the kids would probably make them financially better off so they could carry on running their mpv which is the only thing large enough to carry 2 kids and all their rubbish and occasionally one of the kids' friends.
Cynical, moi?!
teabelly
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This has been said so many times,it is so obvious,but our govt is intent on making us have GPS tracking so they know where we are,road pricing is just an excuse.They have no interest in environmental concerns,no profit in it.According to R4 at lunchtime there are no zero rated cars available in this country,you would have to import.
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Damn right. If £50 per year could worry me then the Landcruiser would be straight out the door.
Other than that, I agree with all that you say. Although I would add that we should massively increase the number of bailiffs in order to ensure the fines are not meaningless.
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Never mind that cars produce a tiny proportion of the CO2 in the atmosphere. Never mind that most of it comes from natural sources which we cannot tax or do anything about, such as volcanoes. Never mind that if you strip away media hype then the case for global warming is far from yet proved.
Never mind all that. According to Wikipedia, "Carbon dioxide content in fresh air is approximately 0.04%, and in exhaled air approximately 4.5%."
If each lungful is multiplying the CO2 content of the atmosphere by over one hundred times, then frankly I think that's a strong argument for some of the more radical "environmentalists" to put their money where their mouths are and stop breathing.
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Thank you, Stuartli. I read the global dimming article with great interest. When I lived in Zambia we used to lie on the ground at night and compete to find the sputniks. I wonder if they can do that now.
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Since nearly nobody actually needs overweight high rise 4wd vehicles then I see no reason why they should not be taxed at about £3000 per annum.Their owners clearly have money to waste,so that surplus might as well go to some useful cause,such as pay rises for MPs,more civil servants,that sort of thing.Obviously we don't want to waste it on education or the National Health Sump.
Similarly motor caravans and supercars,we should not ban them,just tax them.#
I am not at all in favour of a zero band because it encourages vehicles of inadequate performance.The roads are the business arteries of the nation,they must not be blocked up with (slowly) moving chicanes.
Due to their enhanced safety i should like to see incentives for properly designed four wheel drive vehicles,they need not be overweight and if correctly powered by properly designed deisel engines connected to a truly modern automatic gearbox would be most efficient.An efficient engine will have low emissions,and vice versa.
Which is entirely irrelevent since the vast majority of carbon dioxide comes from..............animals.
Thats right,animals.
So,until the UN sets china and india challenging population (reduction) targets we might as well forget all about it.
Robin
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>>Since nearly nobody actually needs overweight high rise 4wd vehicles then I see no reason why they should not be taxed at about £3000
So, we're taxed depending on whether or not someone else believes we need or shoudl have something.
So all we need to do now is investigate your lifestyle until we find somehting that I don;t want and consider you don;t need, and then tax it ?
It is simply the government finding a soft target and raising more money from it - the motorist. today the 4X4, tomorrow the.....
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In many cases a 4x4 is the greener option since it covers the needs of more than one vehicle. Saves having two cars.
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Never mind that cars produce a tiny proportion of the CO2 in the atmosphere. Never mind that most of it comes from natural sources which we cannot tax or do anything about, such as volcanoes. Never mind that if you strip away media hype then the case for global warming is far from yet proved.
One of the worst CO2 polluters I read about is underground coal fires. These usually occur in the Far East in the uncontrolled regions extracting coal. When a fire starts the miners just let it burn and start a new pit somewhere else. These fires can stay alight for, IIRC, about 100 years. Nobody ever attampts to put them out.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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One of the worst CO2 polluters I read about is underground coal fires.
Yes I saw some stuff on that a while ago. Some scientist calculated that the underground fires in China burn around 200m tonnes of coal a year, producing a similar amount of CO2 annually as all the cars in the USA. Theres an underground fire somewhere in India that records show has been burning since 1720 or something like that!
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Global Dimming and vapour trails. What about that glorious hot summer of 1940. Southern Britain baked in sunshine, but more than a handful of aeroplanes pumping out pollution in a small amount of sky. How does that tally?
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Sorry if this has been pointed out or only I had missed it (it's a long thread) but I've just got round to a careful check and had a look at the updated table here
www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/taxation.htm
and the new top band G appears only applies to cars registered from 23rd March 2006. The top rates for cars registered prior to this, which remain in Band F, have gone up to £195/£190 (petrol/diesel).
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