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Gears or Brakes? - eProf

May I ask the wisdom here assembled a question?

I was taught to use the gear box for routine slowing down and to use the brakes only as a last resort. In the words of my still-respected instructor, "Use your brains, not your brakes."

I recently read in an IAM newsletter a statement that said the exact opposite. I have always respected the IAM but to read that contradiction of the way I was taught has left me in a quandary. I am still in the learning phase of my driving career, having only been on the road for a matter of months (some 600 or so) so I would welcome any advice.

eProf

Gears or Brakes? - Altea Ego
Time has overtaken you prof. 600 months ago brakes were not as good as they are now, nor were gearbox synchros.

The way to drive modern cars is to use the brakes to slow down and select the appropriate gear to make headway when required, not twiddle your way down through the gearbox.

The IAM is right and your respected instructor is (on this point) history.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Gears or Brakes? - Avant
The IAM is at least consistent: I had some advanced driving lessons when I passed my test in 1966 - a mere 480 months ago - and the phrase I remember still is 'It's cheaper to wear out your brake pads than your gearbox'.

That said, I think most of us still use the gearbox, or lower gear hold on an automatic, when going down hills.
Gears or Brakes? - Avant
Do tell us, eProf - does 'eProf' mean that you're a professor of computer studies, or that you come from Yorkshire?
Gears or Brakes? - mike hannon
Many steep hills in France have signs (in four languages sometimes) advising drivers to use their engine braking. I'll go on doing it within reason, even with an autobox, as I have been for the last 475 months.
Gears or Brakes? - R75
I seem to remember this being debated a while ago!!! At the end of the day holding a car back by using a low gear is vastly different from using the gearbox as a brake. I will stick to using the footbrake, at least people behind will see my brake lights and the braking will be on all four wheels!
Gears or Brakes? - Xileno {P}
Here it is.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=31702&...e

I haven't changed my view either.
Gears or Brakes? - Manatee
You can't discuss this without somebody saying

"Gears to go, brakes to slow"

so I'll say it. To which I would add, if you can anticipate the need for a lower speed you can reduce the use of either by lifting off in good time, but that's a personal foible - I can't understand why so many people who are not actually in a motor race stay on the accelerator until they hit the brake.
Gears or Brakes? - oldgit
When my sister approaches Westerham hill in Kent, she will insist on changing down (because a 30 year old sign says so) and then revs the guts out of the engine by driving fast in that lower gear - doesn't make sense to me.

She was already in a lower gear, if one assumes that 4th is a lower gear in a car that has five forward gears. Some people DO insist in driving by numbers rather than using their brain, I'm sorry to say
Gears or Brakes? - Civic8
>>When my sister approaches Westerham hill in Kent, she will insist on changing down (because a 30 year old sign says so) and then revs the guts out of the engine by driving fast in that lower gear -

>>doesn't make sense to me.
Nor me,Know it well but never changed down on it and dont know of anyone that does-I always use the brakes never gears
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Steve
Gears or Brakes? - Editor
I know it's all in the other thread but cost of replacing clutch & gearbox, extra fuel vs pad & disc change is a no-brainer, unless you're racing & then it's both at the same time.

On the face of it oddly bikes are encouraged to modify speed through a sequence of twistys using gears & engine braking, but a bike's engine braking is vastly more effective than in a car & braking deep into a corner on two wheels is a much bigger no no than a car.
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www.bayingbasset.com

Gears or Brakes? - Fullchat
Theres a third dimension 'Acceleration Sense' - "The ability to control the speed of a vehicle by acurate use of the accelerator to meet changes in road and traffic conditions".
Roadcraft
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Fullchat
Gears or Brakes? - martint123
Similar to FC's comment - didn't (doesn't) the IAM (bikes at least) appreciate arriving at a speed limit sign at the correct speed without seeing brake lights. They seem to depreciate the use of brakes as signs of lack of anticipation. I know when I did a BikeSafe day followed by a bike cop that he was happy with me overtaking traffic and coming back into a gap without needing to brake.

Martin
Gears or Brakes? - mike hannon
Depends what car you have, I guess. If these days you believe the dealer and change pads and discs every 12k I should think brakes would be dearer to use in the long term!
My last pads were at 108k and I particularly asked the fitter to check the discs, which he OK'd. Touch wood, engine and autobox seem fine.
Gears or Brakes? - R75
I was driving a truck last week (Iveco Stralis) that had an automatic engine brake, If I could have found the off switch for it I would have done. As I was going down the A34 between Didcot and Newbury there were a couple of times when it cut in and made the back end of the unit give a little wobble as the road was damp, I prefer using the foot brake and the old method of engine brakes where the driver applied them - should also mention it was a fully automatic 12 speed gearbox that as the engine brake cut in it dropped from 12 to 10 which did not aid stability!!!!
Gears or Brakes? - Welliesorter
I only passed my test three years ago so my experience is reasonably modern. I was taught not to change down until I'd reached he appropriate speed for the gear.
Gears or Brakes? - none
TU, if the Stralis is the same as the smaller Eurocargo, it's an exhaust brake, and can be switched to braking on overrun, braking with footbrake or off. The switch is on the dashboard on the Eurocargo. The old floor mounted button was a lot more controllable.
Gears or Brakes? - David Horn
Passed my test three and a bit years ago and was told to use the brakes to slow down and put it in the right gear for the speed. Exception was coming off motorways, have always gone 5-3-1, using the engine for braking in 3rd before dropping into 1st.

Gears or Brakes? - Lud
Obviously. brakes until terminal fade, then radical gearchanges and creative fishtailing to a halt. Of course with an old fashioned slush pump auto you had a total transmission lock, called park I seem to remember, best not engaged at any speed over 4mph. Anyway if the worst came to the worst... but you could do awful damage with such a device, rip the whole transmission to pieces. At very best, wear huge canvas-and-steel flats om the rear tyres.
Gears or Brakes? - nickKK
I will generally brake down to the speed if reduced by limit and if traveling downhill stay in same gear just take my foot off the accelerator, the engine runs just over idle and maintains the speed.

The motor is very forgiving and can hold itself at 30mph in 5th gear.

If approaching a junction from any speed I aim to be doing 20mph by braking but will drop to 2nd gear at least 50yds away this gives enough time to stop if I can't go and enough torque to pull away if I can.

the only exception are Blind Junctions usually these have the stop signs and markings where I will be gradually braking for the last 50 yds to come to a halt at the stop markings then apply the handbrake find the bitting point check all clear and move off, or traffic lights where for the last 50yds I pray they change in my favour.

This to me gives the advantage that if someone should pull out without checking I can hit the brakes and avoid them.

I would also say that you would use your brakes more if it was a road you weren't use to

but going by the gear changing signs mentioned above, this is something I have seen you are traveling along a National speed limited single carridgeway at 60mph you approach a sharp bend with the word "SLOW" written on the road you correct your speed to say 40 or 50 ish to make the bend safely, but say you were travelling at 40 ish along the road would you slow down or since the road has national limits would you stay at that speed ?

Gears or Brakes? - Mapmaker
I discovered - in my late father's papers - a cutting from the Telegraph from, I imagine, the mid 1990s, which I reproduce here. Interesting to see that it refers to a driving style invented in 1936. Written by Paul Ripley, who was iirc a police instructor and had a regular column in the Telegraph:

When I learned to drive, motorists were taught to change down sequentially through the gearbox to lose speed on the approach to hazards. This meant that the driver had to change down through 2 or 3 gears to select the correct one, a technique still practised by millions around the world. Unfortunately it has some disadvantages, namely:

1. Unless you have a 4WD, it means you are effectively braking (via engine compression) with the two driven wheels only. (The foot-brake works on all four wheels.)

2. Changing down through the gears to lose speed can cause unnecessary mechanical wear on a number of engine and transmission components.

3. A following driver may not notice or realise that you are reducing speed, because he expects to see brake lights when a car slows. This means he has less time to react, which may in turn cause problems for vehicles travelling behind him.

4. Changing gear means you cannot keep both hands on the wheel, which is necessary for control and safety when braking firmly as the vehicle is unstable in this condition.

5. You must be able to correctly match engine speed to equivalent road speed before you select each gear. Clutch operation must be smooth, especially when letting up the clutch onto a 'dead' engine (i.e. at tickover).

These are just some of the reasons why changing down through the gears to slow down the car is no longer recommended (although as discussed last week, it is still useful in some slippery condititons, when braking may reduce tyre grip).

What is taught nowadays is to miss out the 'unnecessary' intermediate gears in most situations. The brakes are applied once, followed by a single gear chagne.

Having been taught the old way, this at first sounded strange to me, but through motivation and practice, I eventually got to grips with the new technique. In fact, it is not really new, having been used extensively by police drivers and other advanced dirving organisations for many, many years. Indeed it appeared in the Roadcraft Police Drivers Manual as early as 1936.

So how is it done? When using the Driving Plan on approach to hazards (for which the sequence is Mirror-Signal-Postion-Speed-Gear), speed should be lost by means of a single braking application or decelleration to achieve an appropriate road speed for entry to the hazard.

Only when the desired speed has been achieved is a single gear change made, selecting thegear to match the chosen road speed and to provide maximum control, balance and flexibility as you negotiate the hazard.

You will find that this requires greater levels of awareness and anticipation (no bad thing). A common error at first is failing to alow enough time and space to complete both the braking application and the gear change.

The secret is to start losing speed much earlier; this not only produces smoother, more controlled deceleration, but allows plenty of time to make an unhurried gear change before you enter the hazard.

It may well be better in certain situations to select a gear slightly earlier when approaching a doubtful traffic situation, such as a busy roundabout. In circumstances such as these, it is important to be flexible when applying the 'one gear change only' rule. As with other dirving 'rules' , sticking rigidly to the text book occasionally brings its own problems. A good driver must be flexible if safety is the prime objective.
Gears or Brakes? - TheOilBurner
I've done the IAM stuff and found that using only the brakes to slow the car works well in a petrol engined car but is next to useless in diesel cars due to the lower revving engines combined with long gear ratios.

Reason being, in my Diesel car as I approach a set of lights (on Red) on a long 60mph road I will be in 5th or 6th gear, doing little more than 1,800rpm or less. Without changing gear, I'd be forced to de-clutch very early - thus losing the benfit of overrun on the fuel economy and breaking the other IAM rule - don't dip the clutch too early when slowing to a stop.
With my old petrol car, not so much of a problem - especially at lower speeds. I'd typically hold 4rd gear until nearly 60mph in my old 2.4 V70, so slowing again without changing down was not a problem. In my new 1.9 CDTI Vectra, at 60mph I'd usually be in 5th or 6th gear in the same conditions cruising at 750-1000 less RPM than the Volvo.

A combination of letting the car slow itself, gentle braking and block changing the gears (at higher speeds) seems to work best for me. As long as the engine revs don't jump up and the car continues smoothly on (no neck snapping!), I don't see the problem.

I has this same discussion with my IAM observer - a great guy but didn't really get turbo diesels - 100% petrolhead and expected you to drive diesels like the large engined petrol cars he was used to! :)
Gears or Brakes? - JamesH
For steep enough hills, definitely use engine braking, but to maintain speed, not slow down. I drive down Reigate Hill semi-regularly and the number of drivers (i.e. almost all) who sit on the brake pedal the whole way down amazes me.

By being on all the time, they forget they have effectively switched off their brake lights and you really need to leave a huge safety gap in front of you.

For me, engine braking seems easier in a petrol car. On the aforementioned hill, which has a 40 limit, my petrol MX-5 will happily sit in 4th with no throttle and not accelerate. My diesel Octavia still seems to want to speed up even when in 3rd. Both have 6-speed boxes.

James