I'm helping my dad choose a new car and I'd like any advice, please, on makes/ models we should consider where the number one priority is a comfortable drive considering he has a bad back. We reckon that for him this requires a vehicle with (a) an elevated driving position and (b) generous headroom, as he's over 6ft tall.
The car being replaced is a Volvo 850, more than 12 years old, and my dad believes the relatively low slung driver's seat, into which you have to lower your body, has exacerbated his back problem. So he wants the replacement to have a driver's seat higher off the ground. I assume this means we need to mainly look at 4x4s and SUVs. We know next to nothing about these, except that my dad is under the impression that such vehicles, with elevated driving positions, suffer from a corresponding lack of head room. Is this true?
Aside from the high seat/ head room priority, other considerations are generous (but not mammoth) luggage space, automatic gearbox, and a budget of up to £15,000 in the used market.
Any general or specific advice would be much appreciated.
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Don't automatically think SUV or 4x4.
Have a look at the Seat Altea which has a slightly higher than normal seating position and loads of headroom.
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Think Mini MPV - Ala CMAX, TOURAN, SCENIC, PICASSO.
All are much more a "step up into" car with upright driving position, all very good for a bad back driver
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Don't automatically think SUV or 4x4.
I'd agree with that - have a good look round - there are wide variations between 'ordinary' cars. E.g. I find that SWMBO's Focus is much easier to get into than my Mondeo.
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There seem to be quite a few cars about with slightly higher than normal perches, not all MPV's or SUV's.
My daughter-in-law has a dodgy back and gets on well with her Space Star, the choice of which was largely dependent of the seating position and range of adjustment. It has plenty of headroom.
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My Dad has a very bad back - he had a spinal laminectomy last year - drives an auto Honda CRV for long distances and an auto Suzuki Wagon R for local trips. He's 6'2" and (sad to say) can drive either whilst wearing his hat...
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Until I read the whole of your message I was all set to suggest Volvo. They are well known for the fantastic design of their seats. I have read of people with back problems who have said that the only placve they can ever be without pain is in the seat of their Volvo. Perhaps he should consider one of the XC Volvos? I would assume they are a few inches higher.
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I'm in agreement with RF on this one. Even a couple of inches makes all the difference.
I hurt my back (not seriously) by pretending I could actually have a kick around with a football to impress the local kids. Naturally I failed miserably but my back was in agony for a few days.
I raised my seat to the highest setting and it was a doddle getting in and out.
I'm not for one minute suggesting a Focus as I can get quite uncomfortable in mine after 3 hours or so (but then, I am 6ft 5) but RF's idea of C-Max, Touran etc etc sounds like a good one.
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I'm in agreement with RF on this one. Even a couple of inches makes all the difference.
Me too, though it may not be necessary to go for an MPV-type job.
My Dad had an old Corolla, but after his stroke he was less agile, but still alllowed to drive. My brother was concerned about the low seat in the Corolla, and persuaded Dad to try a Focus, which had a higher seat. He found it much better, and got the Ford - a hatchback, obviously :P
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Things to look at.
Searting position - is the body twisted when sitting in the normal position a la 3 series.
Lumber Support - is the small of the back adequately supported or is so poor that the back is in tension.
Auto or Manual ? - I find that a clutch can cause me problems if I have a nearside siatic nerve problem.
Adjustment - Seat Height adjustment can be critical.
Seat Squab Comfort - Germanically hard seats can be as comfortable as a nice Franco soft seat depending on the back condition in question. I find that solid seats actually have less of an effect on my latent back problem than softer seats. A 55 Renault Scenic was particularly bad after 25 miles.
Trial and error, may be worth building a list of possibles and hring them until a comfy seat is found.
PS
Owned a Y plate Disco for a while, very very comfy, but the spine could be jarred easily when getting out.
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Recently tried most of the new VW range for ease of entry when my back was slightly tender. The Golf Plus really stood out with a high seating position and lots of headroom.
I went to a back specialist and for a modest one off fee gave me several exercises which have helped the intermittent lower back pain.
--
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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It's all in the settings, even a good seat needs to be set up correctly for the individual.
Lower back pain - try sitting cross-legged on the floor for ten minutes each evening, instead of sitting on the sofa. Don't laugh, try it.
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This might help you make a decision when you sit in a possible.
www.osteopathy.org.uk/about_osteo/Driving.pdf
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Risking having to duck from the flack, we have an X-trail which is perfect for 6'1" husband's back (spinal injury - permanent). The mondeo and previous Volvo both aggravated and caused pain - plus eventually wrecking the volvo seat as he 'dropped into it'- and sometimes needed help getting up from seat.
A further advantage to the x-trail is it negates the effect of potholes, drains and vicious road humps - he finds the heated seats a comfort on a bad day too!! Getting out/putting in shopping etc is also more comfortable in the higher vehicle.
The cars and MPVs mentioned all have advantages but would not have so robust seating.
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Well ----- the best car for my back........not a BMW ! A humble low spec Pug. 306. Everything from the suspension through to the superp seats, I was using this as a regular hire car for a while when I had my original 330d (basically the firm hired cars in to cover weekend call outs) and this car outclassed the BM in all respects comfort wise. There are Speed humps on the road leading down to the local nick, these could be taken at 30 in the Pug not so in any other car I have driven since.
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Certainly last shape Astras are good for CAUSING bad backs!
Not meant to be sarcastic, as it looks like a very similar seat design, in last shape Zafiras, in case this was to de a consideration.
VB
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This seems to be a matter of personal opinion. Mrs Oilburner has a bad back (very posturally aware too) and has found her 2003 Astra Elegance firm and supportive over 2 years of ownership.
She's very fussy about these things. In fact, she hated my old 2001 Volvo V70, as did I. Supposedly a great car for bad backs, in realilty it may not work for everyone.
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As Oilburner says, it's very much down to personal taste.
I have to echo the comments about the Altea (I'm 6'6"). It's got bags of room, easy access & exit, and - for me - the seats are great, just on the comfortable side of firm.
In most of my previous cars, long journeys were a chore.
In this, they're a doddle.
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Many thanks to all. Obviously a lot of avenues have been opened up we hadn't considered, and it's also interesting to get different opinions on the same cars. I think there'll be relief at the number of you that have stressed we don't necessarily have to look at the top end, though deepwith, I appreciate you risking the flack to praise the X-trail. But I'm especially grateful to all those who've mentioned personal or relative's experiences - normd, deepwith and others, I wish you & yours well. Thanks to Xileno for the previous thread - I did look, but obviously not hard enough - and Simon for the external URL. The general back pain advice also appreciated, but as we're talking a couple of ops & a decade in varying degrees of pain, often acute, it would need a whole other thread (somewhere else!) to explore that part of the problem. But thanks all round once gain - it's great to have some informed advice to get us started.
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Good seats and a good ride are as important as a hig seat. The C5's seats are excellent, front and back.
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Jakester,
the seats in my old shape Passat Sport are superb. I had a Corolla hire car for a day & 360 miles, they were brilliant. The big surprise, to me anyway, was a Picasso I drove while I had a bad back. The seats didn't adjust in the conventional way and I was concerned because I had a 400+ mile round trip to do but the seats, driving position and the car in general were superb. If only the tea trays hadn't rattled!
JH
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HJ rates the C-Max at the most comforatble car he has driven and as an ex back sufferer who has done 1200 miles in one in the last two weeks I can vouch for it as well.
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Jakester
Two of the most comfortable cars I have ever had have been SAABs, good for fatigue- and pain-free journeys over long distances, and generally good for headroom too.
Please make sure you let us know the outcome of your quest.
Jack
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Interesting, I've heard good things about Saabs on those counts too so will add them to the mix. I'll certainly let you know the outcome. Once again, many thanks for the words of wisdom.
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When I had serious back problems in early '96 I had a co Vectra, I could not drive for a week though when I finally got into the car I was comfortable for the first time in days, the seat fitted the shape of my back perfectly. It was an early Vectra SRi and had quite clever twin lumbar adjusters later dropped, or at least not fitted to the '98 V6 I had afterwards.
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The best seats I have had have all been 'sports' seats. They just seem to have better support and adjustment. The V70 I have at the moment I find quite unsupportive (maybe I need a fatter backside).
The sports seats in vag cars are much much better than the standard ones.
SVX, 911 both have good seats - but maybe a bit low to get into.
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If he likes Volvos has he tried the S60 Se? I think they are the best by a mile, but if he needs to be higher off the ground for entry/exit then possibly not. The new passat i find the next best but again low off the ground.
For me most seats are too short in the squab and do not support under my knee, I tried the C-max as HJ recommends but that was the problem.
The ergonomics also play a big part and i cannot see anyone liking the Altea as the steering wheel is canted and pulls the left shoulder out, for me after about 5 minutes behind the wheel!
This is a big problem that many sales people just cannot comprehend, they look at you with the face that says "the seat and driving position are more important than the sexy style, 0% finance, badge, colour, cup holders, 0 to 60 and so on"
I could suggest Toyota Verso for your dad or Honda Jazz as possibly best all rounder for price, reliability, comfort. Too short in the squab for me but worth a try.
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I also meant to say the Auto requirement is a big factor as many cars that meet the seat/comfort spec do not have auto. C-max now has two auto options but i doubt if you would get a used one , they seem very rare. I would say C-max type(mini-MPV) is the best as you are not paying for 4X4 stuff as per a Crv. So Honda Jazz still looks favourite or S60 SE auto.
I do not like Picasso seats but did like C4 so you just have to try loads im afraid. Good luck!
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I know it looks expensive at first sight but I don't understand why so many people, particularly short drivers and those with bad backs, overlook changing the seat rather than the car. If you like a car in other ways, visit a specialist seat supplier and look at Recaro or a similar brand that makes orthopaedic car seats. It is the best part of £1000 for a non-orthopaedic seat and you can near enough double that for the full works but your back is with you forever and a quality car seat can just about last the same amount of time. An ex-colleague of mine has been doing this for 10 years in his company cars with the same seat to deal with a bad back. The best standard seat he had found was in an early Lexus but I don't recall the model number.
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This might not apply to your dad but when I had a bad back I found it almost impossible to twist sideways. This meant it was difficult to reverse by twisting to look through the rear and side windows; therefore, good door mirrors became essential. Another problem was shutting the driver's door when seated in the car as it was almost impossible to twist enough to the right to grab the door pull! The trick was to partially shut the door before sitting down. On reflection I probably shouldn't have been driving at the time!
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HJ had a letter in the Telegraph a few months ago from someone who had had to change the way they got into a car (because of some injury). I can't remember exactly what they had done to make them have to do this, but they had had to get into their car by standing sideways, sitting down on the seat with both feet on the floor outside the car, then swinging their legs together into the car. After a short period, the back pain they had always been plagued with had disappeared.
It's also interesting that pregnant women are told to sit in cars this way as the normal "swing one leg in" method puts enormous strain on your pelvis, apparently.
This might be of help. Trying it will cost nothing, and might resolve the problem.
V
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Vin,This is the excellent method taught by Lucy Clayton modelling School in years past for young ladies to enter cars elegantly in mini skirts - especially sports cars! Comfortable too!! Having said that, there is a turntable device sold in some disabilities equipment shops, quite expensive, to put on the seat to let you swivel in.
This still does not solve the problem of someone tall sitting in the normal height car where you do not have control of the last eight inches or so of lowering body weight, and again the first eight inches or more of getting up again, hence needing the seat height of an MPV or X-trail. I have to add that as my husband needs help to get out of the car on occasions I have found it much much less strain on the helper (usually moi) with the higher car!!
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Just a thought, Jakester, if your dad gets the higher rate of mobility allowance and the car needs any adaptation (ie knob on steering wheel, etc) then a new car would be VAT free and, of course, road tax free. We didn't use that option, but it is there.
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