I've just returned from a family trip to Trier in Germany. I've travelled through Germany before but this is the first time I've actually stayed there, and as a fan of German cars I was interested to see the variations etc of the models we get here. But one of the first things I noticed was that very few cars had alloy wheels. This included the vast majority of BMW and Audi cars and many Mercs.
In fact, I saw quite a few with the plastic wheel trims missing and the black steel wheels showing, and they looked awful! Imagine a 2-3 year-old BMW 5 series in such a state.
Spotting this became almost an obsession (much to my wife's annoyance, although even she had to admit that the appearance of of many 'nice' cars was spoilt by their wheels!)
Has anyone else had this experience?
Pat
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Perhaps they were for winter use only, fitted with winter tyres. Their alloys, fitted with summer tyres, were probably safely stored in their centrally heated garages awaiting the better weather.
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L\'escargot.
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I live in Munich and can tell you it is exactly so. The Germans love alloy wheels and pay vast amounts for expensive non standard yet original manufacturers kit, see the BMW and Merc accessory lists.
However, when the white stuff comes, Nov to Apr, and the law demands that appropriate tyres must be fitted, off come the posh alloys and out come the scabby steel wheels.
The winter tyres make a significant difference to grip, hence steering, braking and therefore safety. In fact after my experiences out here I am seriously considering running them in the UK when I get back.
BB
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Winter wheels and tyres are the principal reason.
However Mercs and BMWs in many cases are not bought as a 'off the shelf package' as in UK - The SE comes with ......Sir.
You start off with an order for a basic car from the factory and choose all the options to be fitted during manufacture. There are literally hundreds of option codes, many for items that all cars imported into the UK would have as standard. Last time I looked steel wheels came as standard and there were several options for alloys.
Many Germans do not consider Mercs to be a luxury car and would not bother with the expenditure on alloys. When I lived in Germany I ordered a couple of Mercs with steel wheels, mainly as I am not a fan of alloys, and wanted a cheap basic car for my use.
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Most Germans love alloys;not just alloys but usually ones with very low section tyres-even Scorpios were offered in Germany with 22" wheels and about 8 other alloy options and that was just from Ford-outside suppliers did even more!
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If the Germans didn't like alloy wheels, but preferred steel wheels, they would be very sensible - but they don't and they aren't!
What is the point of an alloy wheel?
Total waste of money - oh - except that SOME people think they look good - oh, come on; puleeese.
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>>Germans do not consider Mercs to be a luxury car>>
Hmm.. not sure about that.
>>Total waste of money - oh - except that SOME people think they look good - oh, come on; puleeese>
Hmm.. not sure about that either. My Passats alloys look fantastic and i'm quite sure plastic trims would.. well it would not quite cut the mustard with me.
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Just remember in Germany virtually all taxis are Mercs. And alloy wheels are usually heavier than the equivalent size steel;what you see on rally/racers are magnesium not aluminium.
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I would never buy a car without alloys. I know that probably sounds predictable coming from a young lad but I wouldn't. I think they finish the car off.
And I couldn't be bothered buying alloys for a car without them. There's something about Halfords that makes me want to buy blue neons everytime I'm in there.
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I think they finish the car off.
Well, I definitely won't be getting them then!
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They look awful when they are scraped and, obviously, much more expensive to replace than a wheel disc. I don't think it is possible to have some of them refinished either.
The alloys on the C5, for example, have an applied finish, I think, and the outer rim has a very narrow projecting edge that I don't think could be refurbished. Am I mistaken?
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Don't scrape them then!!!
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I don't but my wife does!
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She doesn't read this does she?
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The alloys on the ran are FAB.- They are easy to clean, (pressure wash every fortnight) the tyres have a protective rim to stop them being scraped, and they look fab! (shame the rest of the car looks like a brick!)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Bricks around the globe are outraged by that slanderous remark RF.
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But its even brick red!
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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No she doesn't but then I have told her about it on many occasions.
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My last post was in response to Adams question about my wife scraping the C5's alloys.
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Thanks for the replies. I didn't intend to open the old alloys v steel wheels can of worms, but never mind! For the record I think tasteful alloys do add to the appearance of a car.
Yes, the winter wheel/tyre scenario had occurred to me but the fact that so many cars seemed to have steel wheeels and the tyres did not appear unduly agricultural made me dismiss this theory.
And more people seemed to smoke, but that's off topic ......
cheers
Pat
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Thanks for the replies. I didn't intend to open the old alloys v steel wheels can of worms, but never mind! For the record I think tasteful alloys do add to the appearance of a car.
Likewise I don't want to get drawn into the old alloys v steel wheels argument; except to say it never ceases to amaze me how much weight so many give to the cosmetic appearance of a car.
Getting back to our Teutonic cousins, I know several wealthy Germans who drive very modest cars - a basic Golf or a basic Merc. Whilst image is very important in many other areas - clothes, work status etc' it doesn't apply to cars for many people. In fact the trend to 'debadge' cars is a reflection of this attitude. For some, alloys wheels are a simply an unnecessary expense.
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Before alloys became cheap and universal people used to take off the hubcaps to give their cars a sporting look. They were taken off racers to make wheel changing quicker and to stop them coming off on the circuit constituting a hazard (headlights taped up for the same reason). Wheels were often painted body colour or white or silver, so didn't have that get-you-home-spare look that current black steel wheels have.
Steel wheels are more durable than alloys, much cheaper and less liable to superficial damage. Usually they are not significantly heavier either. Alloys do make the car look better, but they don't make it go any better and you can't see them from the driving seat. They are the automotive equivalent of an ironed silk hanky sticking out of your breast pocket actually.
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Getting back to our Teutonic cousins,
Whilst image is very important in many other areas- clothes, work status etc' it doesn't apply to cars for many people. In fact the trend to 'debadge' cars is a reflection of this attitude.
Funny, I always thought debadging was for reasons of discretion rather than unpretentiousness. Indeed to a person with an eye it can have the opposite effect: 'He's taken the badges off to conceal the fact that its the supercharged 16-cylinder model'. Or better still: 'Oh look, a debadged taxi. He obviously hopes people will think it's the supercharged 16-cylinder model.
'Our Teutonic cousins' is more or less accurate and has a ring to it. Better than 'our ethnic brethren' which actually means the opposite of what it says if you think about it.
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Yes, most people her in Germany have 2 sets of wheels, one set for the winter fitted with winter tyres and one set for the rest of the year. If you have a company car with alloy wheels, the winter set will almost be steel wheels due to the cost.
Contrary to opinion, it is not illegal here to drive on summer tyres in the winter. However, if you do and have a crash as a result, you'll have a difficult job convincing your insurance company to pay up, especially if you're in a skiing area.
You can also buy very basic versions of BMWs and Mercs which don't have alloys (or lots of the other toys). These can be amazingly cheap to lease and you'll find e.g. the car rental company fleets are filled with these models.
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Law has changed in Germany if the weather says it below freezing or there is snow then winter tyres or M&S are compulsory for travel carrying an on the spot fine and vehicle embargo till you change the tyres or the weather changes .This applies in Austria,Germany and Switzerland if you were to have an accident God help you because your insurance won't.
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Why don't the Germans like alloy wheels?
Before I read about the winter tyres, I was going to say 'because they are very clever people', who realise that steel wheels
- Don't need re-torqueing after you get a tyre replaced
- Don't stick to the hubs
- Don't develop cracks when knocked and leak
- Are cheap to replace
- Have covers which can be replaced quick and easily when damaged, rather than the cost of a whole wheel
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Mike Farrow
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Why don't the Germans like alloy wheels? Before I read about the winter tyres, I was going to say 'because they are very clever people', who realise that steel wheels - Don't need re-torqueing after you get a tyre replaced - Don't stick to the hubs - Don't develop cracks when knocked and leak - Are cheap to replace - Have covers which can be replaced quick and easily when damaged, rather than the cost of a whole wheel -------------- Mike Farrow
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And steel wheels don't get nicked as readily as alloys. All in all (I think) it's a no-brainer.
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And steel wheels don't get nicked as readily as alloys. All in all (I think) it's a no-brainer.
Ah yes, the Ferrari-on-four-tottering-piles-of-bricks when-you're-late-for-the-meeting-already syndrome. Yet another reason. Have to say those Germans are rational (Kant, Marx, Engels etc.) Don't believe a word of this Summer Alloys stuff.
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I think alloys have a slight weight advantage over steel rims. Alloys on cars fine alloys on 4x4s stupid (you can tell these will never go off road).
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As I said before,most alloys are heavier than their steel equivalents;what you see on race/rally cars are magnesiun not aluminium.
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Oh, and another thing. One normally - it seems - gets four alloys and a steel spare, so that any time one puts the spare on it looks unsightly. Or else the spare never gets used.
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4 of my mate's cars have no spare wheel just a spacesaver.
They don't have alloys.
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The strange thing about the alloy v steel argument isn't that some people prefer one or the other, it's that those who prefer steel seem to reserve quite such a hatred for alloys, and a desire to convert others to their view.
It's like listening to ex-smokers or born again Christians in this thread.
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4 of my mate's cars have no spare wheel just a spacesaver. They don't have alloys.
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Blimey! You have one mate with four cars. Is he a student as well?
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I got 4 alloys and bag with a pump and can of goo!
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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And a hod, a bag of cement mortar and a pointing trowel...
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I have put a length of sewer pipe on the roofbars...
I mean all vans have them dont they?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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- Don't need re-torqueing after you get a tyre replaced
- Don't stick to the hubs
- Don't develop cracks when knocked and leak
- Are cheap to replace
- Have covers which can be replaced quick and easily when damaged, rather than the cost of a whole wheel
-Err sorry ALL wheels need retorquing after 50 miles not just alloys.
-Steels do stick to the hubs if left, but admittedly less likely to.
-Alloys are softer & will frequently bend or break rather than expensive suspension in an accident....
-& the covers get nicked as well!
-Alloys are frequently truer or more round than steels, hence once wheel sizes go beyond a certain point you don't see steels.
And sorry but a Porsche with wheel trims would look stupid & cheap so I'll stick with alloys thanks.
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Well, the Barchetta is about to get a set of 17" Zender Monza alloys with Pirelli p-Zeros, so it looks like we´ll be keeping it for another summer. Just don´t tell Mrs Marchetta - I doubt she´ll notice anyway...
(famous last words)
By the way, I got the Pirellis for the equivalent of 60 quid a corner. Does that sound about OK?
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-Err sorry ALL wheels need retorquing after 50 miles not just alloys. -Steels do stick to the hubs if left, but admittedly less likely to. -Alloys are softer & will frequently bend or break rather than expensive suspension in an accident.... -& the covers get nicked as well!
- The construction of steel wheels means the bolt eyes are a lot more elastic. I've never had to nor been told by a garage to re-torque a steel wheel on my car.
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- For the DIYer the alloy will cost a lot more than the suspension!
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Mike Farrow
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My tyre dealers advise that all wheel nuts be retorqued after 50 miles, also standard practise when I was race mechanicing. Alloy or not they all settle especially if the taper has paint or dirt on.
Err Alloy wheel at dealers prices say £200-£300, broken wishbone or strut £ 00's of pounds, distorted chassis rail etc possibly -000's certainly many £100's.
Guy in the office had his missus crash his Golf VR6 up a kerb very hard. Trashed the alloy but hadn't affected the alignment in the slightest, everyone amazed put it down to alloy absorbing impact. Specialist wheel refurber sorted alloy out for £ 50!
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The previous Audi RS6 was known to trash alloys if you hit say a large pot-hole. Apparently designed that way because it saved suspension which was way more costly. Under warranty Audi paid for wheels - cheaper than them paying for new suspension.
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