I have a Passat that is on the long life service. Why is their so much conflicting information as to when the best time to change the oil/get the car serviced. My car is 1 year and 3 months (13000 miles) old and I have no intention unless I get good reason to change it back to a yearly/10000 mile. It seems to me that everybody is so used to yearly/10000 miles service that they do not want to change away from this.
I check my car regularly for any visible problems and top the oil up if needed.
I would appreciate any valid reason why I should change back to yearly/10000 miles/
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My view (and others on here judging from previous posts on the subject) is that the long life service schedules are a sop to the fleets to reduce running costs. Whilst generally accepting that oil technology has advanced leaps and bounds and that an engine will probably be fine with oil changes every 20,000 miles or two years I?m still sceptical about the potential false economy of it. My Skoda/VW TDi PD engine is on a 10,000 mile schedule and I get the oil and filter changed every 5,000 miles. Why? I wouldn?t be happy with ?old? oil doing the important job of cooling the turbo and bearings and lubricating the cams operating the injector pumps that require a high spec oil. Just about everything I read and hear from more knowledgeable sources about frequent oil changes suggests it is still a good idea so that?s good enough for me. If I was running a company car that I was going to hand back I wouldn?t care a hoot ? someone else?s issue!
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>>>If I was running a company car that I was going to hand back I wouldn?t care a hoot ? someone else?s issue! >>>>
This is the crux of the whole problem and purely to appease fleet service managers and Company accountants with scant regard for the long term life of the vehicle`s engine.It is then eventually dumped on the second hand market, to land some poor unsuspecting punter with some very expensive bills.
Modern common rail diesel engines operate under extremely high injection pressures (16,000 lbs/square inch), and also turbos are being constantly uprated to increase performance. While modern synthetic oils are vastly improved, the need to maintain more frequent filter changes is vital.
To compound the problem many of these company vehicles are fitted with tuning boxes or rechipped to put further stress on mechanicals, - so IMHO 20k oil changes for your own private vehicle are a definite NO. !!!!
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I am not convinced about service intervals being tuned for fleet buyers.
Firstly servicing costs are a small part of the cost per mile figure compared to depreciation.
Secondly it is nonsense to think costs are the only driving factor for fleet buyers, we live in a world of skills shortages and car choice is a big factor in attracting good people. Look at the posts from user-choosers in this forum!! Why are the roads full of Audi,Bmw and Passats? Because the salespeople, consultants, engineers and accountants demand them as part of their package. 15 years ago they were all in Cavaliers.
Thirdly cars are made for the international market and not all countries are fleet dominated like we are.
Fourthly back to depreciation, this is driven by second users. If a car has a bad reputation it will not sell so depreciates more and back we go to point one.
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"If I was running a company car that I was going to hand back I wouldn?t care a hoot ? someone else?s issue!"
"If you plan to get rid after three years then take advantage of the cheaper short term service bills as the longevity of the engine won't be your problem."
Well well, you miserable lot - it's no wonder used-car prices fall so fast when there must be so many ex-fleets (and maybe others) around with servicing deliberately stretched too far, as it will be someone else's problem. Sad that there's so much penny pinching in such an affluent society, and no wonder cars are almost throwaway items.
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Is the servicing that you are having by VW or recommended by them?
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It all depends on how long you are planning to keep the vehicle. If it is a long term proposition the sensible thing to do would be to drop the oil out every 12 months at least. If you plan to get rid after three years then take advantage of the cheaper short term service bills as the longevity of the engine won't be your problem.
I have a similar setup on my Vectra C. Called Ecoflex, for petrols it is 20k/2 years or service light and for diesels 30k/2 years or service light - whichever comes first.
I notice Vauxhall have since dumped the idea and gone back to standard 20k/1 year whichever comes first for all Vectras, petrol or diesel. My guess is that the system was either too complicated for dealers and punters alike or the subsequent warranty costs became too much.
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I notice Vauxhall have since dumped the idea and gone back to standard 20k/1 year whichever comes first for all Vectras, petrol or diesel.
Have they? The letter from Vauxhall to my local dealer must have got lost in the post as both types of servicing are still available.
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I'm referring to the latest models available to purchase now - don't know exactly when they changed but pretty sure it was before the "facelift"
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I'm referring to the latest models available to purchase now - don't know exactly when they changed but pretty sure it was before the "facelift"
Ah, I see. I would have thought though that the engines would basically be the same, so why not apply the same ruling to the pre-facelift models as well?
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I guess because you can't change the goalposts on cars that were sold on the basis of being on the Ecoflex regime. Seems that Vauxhall have dumped the idea completely on new cars for one reason or another.
I suspect you can volunteer to change over to fixed servicing by getting the service indicator reprogrammed or something.
In a similar vein, another poster on here started a thread recently about a nearly new VW he bought on the basis of VW longlife service and the garage had tried to change this :
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=37820
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I suspect you can volunteer to change over to fixed servicing by getting the service indicator reprogrammed or something.
It was the first thing I got the garage to do when I had it serviced last year ;o)
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i think the VW Audi longlife servicing is generally a good idea for those that do the mileage in a shortish time. For instance, I have a diesel A4 and do about 21,000 per year. I find that I get about a year between services which is about right. My father has a Passat tdi and does 6000 a year tops. In his case he should revert to fixed interval servicing. I have said this before and I will say it again, people worry far too much about the long oil-change inetrvals on the longlife regime. The 506 spec oil that VW use is quite frankly 'bomb-proof', and assuming you keep the oil topped up there should be no problems.
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If VW as a manufacturer are happy to provide a 3 year warranty,together with long life servicing,then surely they are confident that there will be no problems.I don't think they would offer this without considerable research beforehand.
I was also under the impression that driving styles and usage were monitored by the ECU and service times flagged up accordingly.
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I would also demand that the car has a 6 monthly decoke - its absolutely essential. The manufacturers clearly don't know what they are talking about.
No grease nipples, Sealed Gearboxes, Batteries that don't need topping up, wheel bearings that don't need checking: what utter rubbish.
My Dad knows what he is talking about I can tell you.
P.S.
Always carry a spare starting handle as well.
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Ahh,yes!the old days !
Hillman Imp head gaskets
Leyland Mini,subframes,baljoints,transfer gear bearings,rust,everything !
Triumph Stag that could not get off the end of the road without overheating.
AlfaSud that started to rust and decompose before they were a year old.
etc etc.
Such memories .
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Having worked for vehicle manufacturers I can tell you that the question everybody asks during development is, "will it make it through warranty?". No one is much interested in what happens after that.
If I was paying for my own car, and intending to keep it, I wouldn't opt for longlife servicing. You see some right sheds that have been longlife serviced - its all about presenting a tempting proposition to the fleet buyer.
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To be honest, the only significant event that occurs in servicing in the first 3 years/60000 miles is the oil change. What I mean is that as far as I can see this is the only thing that is 'lifespan affecting', having a slightly dirty air filter or gunged -up diesel filter is not realy likely to damage the car, and I still maintain that the oils now used are quite capable of protecting the engine as long as they are supposed to in the longlife regime. But I suppose to finally settle the argument, we would have to send some Longlife II oil off to the lab for analysis that has been in an engine for say 25,000 miles !
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Can your dad remember checking the the front wheel tracking on a car using one piece of tube inside another with a thumbscrew to to lock them and using the front and the back of the rims to get the proper toe in. Now was the toe in 1/8th 1/4qtr 1 inch or in my old age am I just imagining all this.
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EU rules will mean cars have to be serviced yearly. Something to do with checking emissions.
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EU rules will mean cars have to be serviced yearly. Something to do with checking emissions.
Errrrrr.... what, like an MOT test?
(patient sigh)!
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MoneyMart
Current car: 55-reg Audi A4 2.5 V6TDi Quattro flappy-paddle
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I don't know the exact details, it's what I was told yesterday.
Can anyone in the trade elucidate?
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What about the first three years?
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"But I suppose to finally settle the argument, we would have to send some Longlife II oil off to the lab for analysis that has been in an engine for say 25,000 miles !"
They are doing that here : forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=94811
with 506.01 and it seems to be going well.
Rgds
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It is then eventually dumped on the second hand market, to land some poor unsuspecting punter with some very expensive bills.
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dude - any evidence for this statement?
i know of many examples of e39-bmw models serviced on longlife intervals, and still going strong after 5 or 6 years despite having mega miles 150k plus on the odometer. all of them needed no more than the usual tyres/brakes/fluids/filters servicing. i know of not a single one which has suffered from this longlife regime.
what a cynical lot some of you are. that is apart from the self-righteos one of course.
--------
the earth is flat. welcome to the flat-earth society.
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I've read a report previously (been trying to find it!) that a VAG engine with Castrol Long Life did (IIRC) in excess of 150,000 miles with no oil changes and regular inspections showed no abnormal wear and tear.
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"But I suppose to finally settle the argument, we would have to send some Longlife II oil off to the lab for analysis that has been in an engine for say 25,000 miles !" They are doing that here : forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=94811 with 506.01 and it seems to be going well.
They are, but at pretty low mileages. This is typical in the US - they often change their oil every 5000 miles, oil is really cheap there, and it's cheap to get it done. There also seems to be quite a band of people who always send their oil off for analysis.
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HONEST JOHN and probably countless others will soon be on to tell us that mineral oil only lasts 4,000 miles, and synthetic 6,000 miles, and that 20,000 service intervals are bad for the engine...
Unfortunately I have yet to see a shred of evidence that this is the case. I have personally known dozens of cars on LongLife servicing, with many of them having in excess of 150,000 miles with no engine wear related problems whatsoever.
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MoneyMart
Current car: 55-reg Audi A4 2.5 V6TDi Quattro flappy-paddle
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It not so much the oil changes (although I don't believe long change intervals can be good for the engine) - its more all the other bits that should be checked during a service. I'm thinking brakes, suspension components, belts, PS leaks etc.
I have seen cars bought from auction where its been 15k since last service and the discs are scored and suspension joints knocking. This sort of thing would be picked up during normal service regime. Personally I would check a car every six months at least (i.e. get it on ramps, check discs, pads, brake lines and hoses, belts and rack etc.) - this only takes 20mins at most. Once you know your way around a car servicing is really quick. I can do a basic service on a Merc (190/C/E/S) in 30mins. I check the key safety items whilst the oil is draining.
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This debate now has long legs. I think I could agree with the longlife arguments, if there was not a history of problems e.g. Vauxhall 2.2 timing chains. Where are Vauxhall when the engines go? Nobody wants to go back to the greasegun, but longlife oil isn't exactly cheap either. A good oil change = £25, engine = £2,000. Over 5-6 years is there really such a saving on oil?
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A good oil change = £25, engine = £2,000. Over 5-6 years is there really such a saving on oil?
This is true, but who keeps cars for 5-6 yrs (cue lots of responses from people who keep cars for 5-6 yrs!)?
I reckon most people change their car every few yrs, so the issue is looking after it so it doesn't need a new engine while you own the thing.
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BP, few = 5 ish as far as i'm concerned ;)
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So do we all agree that longer servicing especialy for oil changes is not good? i certainly do
I can remember when my dad had his shop, he had a transit van. One of his mates was a vauxhall dealer, & was trying to get him to buy a Bedford CF. Ford had brought out a revamped transit in the late 70's, with longer service intervals. Lo & behold Bedford a month later anounced the same for the CF van. All they had done was increased the sump capacity for the CF hoping the extra capacity would not get the oil as dirty. So i think this proves that this was a nod to the fleet managers.
There are many issues this thread poses someone mentioned the general car safty, I know for instance that brake pad thickness is suposed to be measured with a vernier caliper every service (for certain on a MK2 golf)so does this happen every service?I would think not,probably just a visual inspection and if the Mech thinks its about right he changes it
Question/ how often do any of us this day and age just check our oil
Next Question how many times have you ever had to top up? Hardly ever i would think
But that fact we as i do of just looking under the bonnet is proof we have a interest but most of joe public does not
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So do we all agree that longer servicing especialy for oil changes is not good? i certainly do
Errrrr... no!
I can remember when my dad had his shop, he had a transit van. One of his mates was a vauxhall dealer, & was trying to get him to buy a Bedford CF. Ford had brought out a revamped transit in the late 70's, with longer service intervals. Lo & behold Bedford a month later anounced the same for the CF van. All they had done was increased the sump capacity for the CF hoping the extra capacity would not get the oil as dirty. So i think this proves that this was a nod to the fleet managers.
Firstly, I think things have moved on a tad since the 1970's!. Secondly, I fail to see the link with Bedford responding to a feature that a competitor is offering in order to remain competetive being "a not to the fleet managers"!!!
Question/ how often do any of us this day and age just check our oil
Well, every other week as it happens...
Next Question how many times have you ever had to top up? Hardly ever i would think
Pretty much all modern diesels use oil in the first 20,000 miles or so, as well as many Petrol engines...
But that fact we as i do of just looking under the bonnet is proof we have a interest but most of joe public does not
huh?
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MoneyMart
Current car: 55-reg Audi A4 2.5 V6TDi Quattro flappy-paddle
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