Hi,
I have a five month old Vauxhall which has been absolutely fine so far. However, I noticed yesterday that despite my efforts to keep it clean over the winter, there is some light rust showing on the surface of the brake drums, apparently coming through the black paint.
It's booked in for a warranty check tomorrow, but the man at the dealership seemed to imply that it would probably be considered "normal" and not a warranty job.
I'd appreciate other peoples' opinions on this in case of any dispute tomorrow.
Thanks
Jon
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Hi Jon,
I think it's normal to be honest. I've got a '99 Focus owned since...well - 1999! And I seem to remember the drums looking rusty since very early on it its life although mine weren't painted.
Someone who knows more will be along soon but I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Adam
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Cosmetic rust warranty won't cover nuts bolts brake and suspension parts, exhaust etc... it probably would if they failed due to corrosion though.
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I think that corrosion anywhere on a car five months old is totally unacceptable and especially on a painted surface.
The brake callipers on my Golf VR6 started corroding at about six months out from new and I played merry hell with VW, even though the parts were not painted. I bought their top-of-the-range car only to see it corroding within its first year -- not. Following resistance from the dealer I went straight to UK HQ of VW and sent them a very stiff letter implying pursuit via the law if they didn't put it right. They gave in and disguised their response in the form of what the dealer called "a service fix" (not a warranty claim), i.e. they had the callipers painted as part of a normal service transaction.
Of course, brake parts are vulnerable to corrosion, but they should be properly made with the most protective finish available.
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Its normal.
It happens to all cars with drums, they are made of cast iron so it cant be prevented but wont rust through or cause a problem
It wont be covered under any warranty as its not a problem.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>>there is some light rust showing on the surface of the brake drums, apparently coming through the black paint.
Perfectly normal - nowt to worry about.
Number_Cruncher
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I'm not worried structurally - I'm just a bit miffed because it's going to look manky and I reckon I've done a very nice job of keeping the car looking gleaming and new 7000 miles on.
I'll have a go at getting it sorted - even if they just repainted it that'd be fine. I don't have the time or tools handy for this sort of thing. I realise it's a normal thing to happen after a while, but I don't think four and a half months (and only a few months of really hard winter) is adequate. It makes me wonder how long it was standing in a field before I bought it.
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Well that's not promising. They really weren't particularly interested... it's just "normal".
I've been through the warranty text in depth and believe I have a good case on this one, which I'll make to Vauxhall Customer Care using specific detail on that text. If anyone's vaguely interested I'll keep this thread updated.
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>>They really weren't particularly interested... it's just "normal".
Yes, that's because it is normal.
I must admitthat my customer care skills never had much polish; had I been on the desk, I would have struggled not to laugh at you. Were they surpressing a slight smirk? merest hint of a titter perhaps?
Brake drums and discs go rusty on their non-working surfaces, it doesn't affect their form, fit, or function. These parts are safety critical, **not** cosmetic.
While automotive deviants may choose to buy and apply expensive heat resistant paint for their brake drums and exhaust manifolds, I can understand manufacturers deciding that there is no functional benefit to be gained by spending this money.
Number_Cruncher
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Mine look like they've been at the bottom of the Atlantic for the past 6 years.
I looked at my mate's 53 plate Focus yesterday and his are exactly the same.
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"I must admit that my customer care skills never had much polish; had I been on the desk, I would have struggled not to laugh at you. Were they suppressing a slight smirk? merest hint of a titter perhaps?"
I couldn't have put it better myself!! Whip the wheels off yourself once a year and carefully give the drums a coat of smooth black Hammerite (or similar) with a brush.
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Frosts do a high temperature spray which is meant for use on brake drums, calipers, etc.
It's even available in nice colours!
www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8205
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ormy cant do the hubs himself as he wrote,
i quote......". I don't have the time or tools handy for this sort of thing".
as a matter of interest when the paint has come of it will allow the drums to cool quicker.
--
\"a little man in a big world/\"
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"ormy cant do the hubs himself as he wrote,"
Well he must have a jack & wheel wrench - they comes with the vehicle. Borrow or buy a couple of axle stands just in case & half an hour with a brush & a lick of paint. His time can't be that short surely?
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>>as a matter of interest when the paint has come of it will allow the drums to cool quicker.
First point is that the rear drums on most Vauxhalls do very little work - by the time you have got the rear drums hot, I would think the front discs will have melted.
Years ago, I worked on a mkII Cav, with squeaking brakes. I clamped off the rear brakes and went for a short test - the car stopped well, but the squeak was still there. Being a young fool, (it's worse - I'm an older fool now!, but I won't be clamping front brakes off again!) I then clamped the fronts off and went for another spin. The first time I tried the brakes was nearly a trouser soiling moment - but the squeak had stopped!
I think that the temperature difference between the adjacent surfaces is much too small to make radiation the dominant heat transfer mechanism i.e., you can forget arguments that black paint will be better for heat transfer. If you aren't relying on radiative heat transfer, the emissivity of the surface becomes irrelevant.
The dominant mode of heat transfer is convection to the surrounding air, and I think that a roughened surface with greater surface area, and a greater propensity for destroying laminar flow, and promoting turbulent flow is a good thing.
Number_Cruncher
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The dominant mode of heat transfer is convection to the surrounding air, and I think that a roughened surface with greater surface area, and a greater propensity for destroying laminar flow, and promoting turbulent flow is a good thing. Number_Cruncher
ie in english the more rust the drum has then the greater the surface area for heat dissipation.
on a slightly different note does anyone remember minifins?? these were like vanes on the drums to increase the surface area.
--
"a little man in a big world/"
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but how much time/effort/aggro has been spent on the bb + dealers +phone to vw ?
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I have a 7 month old Fiat Panda and the driver's seat is slightly indented where my fat 17 stone bum has been parked, do I have grounds for a warranty claim?
Sorry, must not mock.
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Have a wander round a car park and check the state of everyone else's drums.
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Hello, I'm new to the forum. I think the problem here is that with most new cars having alloy wheels you can see through the 'spokes' so, having cleaned your car you can see the rusty hubs/calipers spoiling the look.
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With reference to the corroded callipers reported above, a key part of the basis of my claim was that I saw other VR6s with properly painted callipers. A proper finish is effective for five years, as I now know, and the car is coming up for another calliper refurb at the end of this year. Yes, the open style of the alloys exposes the callipers; no, they should not corrode within a few months of being new.
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Okay, the exclusions in the year one warranty that are relevant are:
"normal deterioration of soft trim and appearance items".
Year two specifically refers to "service items (such as brake discs and drums".
This was what I was referring to regarding the wording in the warranty.
Now I wouldn't argue that the brake drum is an appearance item (although this being a tigra twintop it probably brakes standing on its nose with its back wheels almost in the air), and they've specifically called it a service item rather than an appearance item in the year two exclusions.
That just leaves the very thin paint on the drums which could be considered an "appearance item", which was suggested by Vauxhall. Anyway, regardless, we appear to be moving towards an acceptable conclusion on this one.
Regarding my time and tools, funnily enough I don't have a jack (no spare wheel with the bigger wheeled Tigras, MX5 style) or axle stands, and half the time and hassle involved would be sourcing both. Plus, I'd probably mess something up royally based on past efforts.
Whoever mentioned the spoked alloys making it more obvious was spot on, by the way :0)
Anyway, I've not had a great deal of hassle here... just went straight to the point about the warranty wording and was reasonable and polite throughout. I just feel that if something like that is going to corrode so soon, it ought to be better protected through appropriate paint, anodising, or whatever, even on a car which like this is clearly built to a price point.
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Anyway, glad I've given a few people a giggle. I'll be the first to admit I'm a mechanical dunce, no argument there. Bolt thread stripping is my speciality. I do know what needs topping up and what needs inflating and what needs filling and which bits not to touch when they're hot, don't worry :0)
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I do agree with Rover 75 though - a lot of cars now have very 'open' alloy wheels and seeing corroded drums and calipers doesn't do anything for the car's appearance.
You'd think the manufacturers would be keen not to have their cars looking 'orrible?
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Cover the drums up with some of those "dummy" brake discs, they used to come in all sorts of colours. Not seen them around for a couple of years though.
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