The term 'handling' is bandied about by many of us and yet I am not sure that that it means the same thing to all of us. The quote below is from the 'hire cars in the USA' thread that is currently running:
"Handling not great though, I had to keep correcting the steering whilst on the Interstate to stop it wandering across the road. I previously thought Cadillacs only did that because the owners are all 90 years old."
Whilst I may well be wrong that is not my definition of handling. The most potent car I have driven for any distance was some years ago in a newish Porsche 911 on some old Autobahns in Germany and it constantly needed steering correction. To a lesser extent the Gtis I have owned were more sensitive to road camber than cooking family saloons.
I have always thought that handling was the ability to remain stable and easy to control when cornering at speed - turn-in etc. Having said that the older Porsche 911 was notorious for swapping ends suddenly when the roadholding limit was reached. So did that car have poor handling?
So what is your definition of handling as opposed to roadholding?
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Anything that makes bends fun and Mways predictable. 535 anyone ?
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Pug, stop gloating about your 535. It´s very unattractive and makes the rest of us feel inadequate. Or is that just me...
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From the intro of my favourite Vehicle Dynamics book, Fundamentals of Vehicle Dynamics, by Gillespie;
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At the outset it is worth noting that the term "handling" is often used interchangably with cornering, turning, or directional response, but there are nuances of difference between these terms. Cornering, turning and directional control refer to objective properties of the vehicle whne changing direction and sustaining lateral acceleration in the process. For example, cornering ability may be quantified by the level of lateral acceleration that can be sustained in a stable condition, or directional response may be quantified by the time required for lateral acceleration to develop following a steering input. Handling on the other hand, adds to this the vehicle qualities that feed back to the driver affecting the ease of the driving task or affecting the driver's ability to maintain control. Handling implies, then, not only the vehicle's explicit capabilities, but its contributions as well to the system performance of the driver vehicle combination.
-------------8<---------
Perhaps the Cadillac may better be described as having poor on-centre stability rather than having poor handling (although it might have poor handling as well!)
For me, the subjective test of roadholding is how well a car copes with a bump mid-corner - in this respect, a car with softer suspension is usually better than one with hard suspension. This is because the dynamic tyre load is lower for a softer suspension, i.e., the ability of the tyre to generate lateral load is not changed as much during the bump, wheras for a car with very rigid suspension, one can almost picture the car sitting on three wheels only during the transit of the bump.
Number_Cruncher
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Of course Cardew is right. I have often wondered what most people mean by handling as they seem never to go round a corner quickly enough even to begin to find out how their cars handle. Just as well perhaps because a lot handle quite badly on the limit and radial ply tyres, which grip much better than crossplies, tend to lose adhesion more abruptly than crossplies and catch people out. Of course suspension geometry and spring and damper rates are all very important as is the car's basic front/rear weight balance.
The Singer Vogue estate I used as a minicab handled extremely well especially on smooth, wet tarmac, being easy to hold in long, well-controlled power slides all at reassuringly low speeds. Indeed for handling fun, crossply lack of grip and progressive loss of adhesion is ideal. The good roadholding (i.e. high ultimate cornering speeds) of well-designed modern cars renders their actual handling irrelevant to most people, as they don't start to slide until racing speeds are approached.
Agree about US power steering wander as well. Yuck!
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I don?t really know anything about handling but after years of driving modern Peugeot 605s, a couple of years ago I drove a Morris Ital from Liverpool to Manchester. Taught me a lot about not handling. Difficult to keep straight and true under any conditions and lethal under heavy braking (motorways). A very stressful journey. How did people manage?
I?d quite like to have a pop in a few other cars, Morris Minor, Anglia maybe or a Mark I and II Cortina, Allegro, Chevette, Viva. Cars that I rode in as a little boy - just so I can get a feel for how far we?ve come...
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BBD, in my early twenties I borrowed my Dad's Morris 1000 while my Imp (Singer Chamois if you're being posh) was off the road (again). I turned left into a side road, just as I always would in the Singer and scared myself witless as I slid across the seat! Hence the expression "driving by the seat of your pants"?
Two conclusions;
The coefficient of friction between your bum and seat is just as important as that between the tyres and the road,
Moggies were pretty bad even by 70s standards so don't kill yourself!
JH
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There should be somewhere you can go to try these cars out, in the same way you can spend a weekend in landrovers and whatever.
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go banger racing maybe?
--
\"a little man in a big world/\"
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Dave,
save all these ideas for when I pop around sometime.
So far we've got;
Wheelspins in your garage (gotta be fun in your RWD)
Handling/Car endurance tests
And er....other stuff.
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You?re thinking about the Romanian hookers on the hard shoulder aren?t you Ad?
Didn?t see any today but then it is minus 20 out there. I?m wearing my wife?s tights again.
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Yep - I am!
It can't be that cold still? It was T-shirt weather before for me ....in fact, I had to have the fan on and the window open a touch in the car this morning when I was driving to the airport.
Incidentally, I haven't said what I think handling is. To me, handling is being able to throw the car around bends at a relatively fast speed without it under/oversteering or losing grip whilst at the same time providing positive feedback through the wheel.
Wow - that sounds like I know what I'm on about doesn't it?!
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I don?t really know anything about handling but after years of driving modern Peugeot 605s, a couple of years ago I drove a Morris Ital from Liverpool to Manchester. Taught me a lot about not handling. Difficult to keep straight and true under any conditions and lethal under heavy braking (motorways). A very stressful journey. How did people manage? I?d quite like to have a pop in a few other cars, Morris Minor, Anglia maybe or a Mark I and II Cortina, Allegro, Chevette, Viva. Cars that I rode in as a little boy - just so I can get a feel for how far we?ve come...
You got it BBD. Why so many today haven't a clue about handling, just spoilt. Have to do handbrake turns and 'lay rubber' -ugh - to have a bit of fun they think. Poor thin stuff. And hardly anyone interested in what modern cars can really do: eat up the miles very quickly and very safely with minimal fatigue. They'd rather complain about feeling intimidated on the motorway and wonder whether to sneak on people for doing 80.
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