As some may know, I was recently attacked and robbed, and thankfully am still here unlike so many others. I have been most appaulled by how the Police are not allowed to solve the crime, due to their hands being tied by the government. Even though the attackers were repeatedly using my mobile, the Police robbery team were not allowed to triangulate it's location, even though they told me they can do so easily and instantly with a call to the control room. they are only allowed to if there is a murder, potential suicide or they need to spy on a group who the government sees as a threat to their authority.
So, I have looked into this, and using a website
www.followus.co.uk
You can track your phone's location, and it really does work to with about 50-100m for me on T mobile.
So I have just bought a Nokia 1100 for £19 from amazon, and when it arrives, I will install it behind the boot trim on a bracket and wire a car charger directly to a permenant 12v (unused towing electrics feed). This will mean if my car gets stolen, it can be traced by me on the computer. The outlay is £19 (free if you have an old phone in a drawer) and £10-15 to register on the site (depending what options you choose)
You have to pair your phone with your account on the site via text message pin codes, so you can't really spy on other people if you were thinking of that, you can also use this for parcels, boats, anything large anyone could steal really.
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That's a fabulous idea. A few 'big' mates and you could quite easily find your car !
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dont want my car back if it goes walkie......
good idea tho
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Police robbery team were not allowed to triangulate it's location, even though they told me they can do so easily and instantly with a call to the control room. they are only allowed to if there is a murder, potential suicide or they need to spy on a group who the government sees as a threat to their authority.
I don't think that is correct. I'm sure that I read a few months back that the police had arrested some drugs suppliers following monitoring of their cellphone movements.
I would imagine that for your 'phone they would only be able to locate it to, at best, +/-50m of a particular location. Then it would come down to officers 'on the ground' trying to visually home in on the individual concerned. They probably haven't got the resources for that.
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Phone Cell Site Analysis is a very, very expensive function for police to ask for. The mobile phone companies will only allow it to be used for really serious crime. You would consider robbery on you a serious crime, but in the scheme of things, the actual definition of serious crime is not what you would think (or even wish it to be). Serious crime would be drug supply/importation, murder, conspiracy to commit other serious arrestable offences
The by-word is "proportionality" to the effect you are attempting to achieve I am afraid.
Don't shoot me, I am only the messenger and I am as frustrated as other people at our inability to use technology where we think we deserve to.
On a more positive note, I do believe that 192.com will (if it hasn't already) be offering a trace service on a mobile phone belonging to a loved one. Worth a look, especially if your loved one is a car!
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Here we go.....192.com
Web Based Phone Tracker
Enables registered users to identify and track the locations of consenting mobile phone users. This automatic locating service uses mobile phone signals from the UK's major network operators T-Mobile, Orange, O2, and Vodafone, and combines them with the latest Internet technology to display a mobile phone's location on a street level map in any normal web browser. You can also access this information by making a simple phone call.
Monthly Subscription
£5 + vat monthly (initial £30 + vat payment for first 6 months)
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">Phone Cell Site Analysis is a very, very expensive function for police to ask for. The mobile phone companies will only allow it to be used for really serious crime.<"
That's not correct. T-mobile provided me with location details for my 'phone several years ago, it cost nothing. But the info was historic, not real time. I don't think a mobile phone company could decide to "allow" or "disallow" any request/instruction from the police.
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">Phone Cell Site Analysis is a very, very expensive function for police to ask for. The mobile phone companies will only allow it to be used for really serious crime.<" That's not correct. T-mobile provided me with location details for my 'phone several years ago, it cost nothing. But the info was historic, not real time. I don't think a mobile phone company could decide to "allow" or "disallow" any request/instruction from the police.
I am afraid that they can decline (except where a court order has been obtained). There is a very rigorously scrutinised and tightly controlled process under RIPA where application for subscriber data, or billing data or historical cell site analysis is applied for by various law enforcement agencies. It is heavily supervised by senior officers and must get past inspection by them even before it gets to a phone company. Everything you are seeking to achieve has to be justified and with the least risk of collateral intrusion into other persons privacy. If the phone company believes the application is not proportionate, or justified, they can (and do!) decline.
"Live" cell site analysis, (i.e. in kidnap and other really serious situations)is very, very expensive. The phone companies constantly moan about how much it costs to service the various authorities with their requests, and they recoup as much as they can. Latest figures I don't have, but when I was involved in it (nearly 10 yrs ago) it was roughly £50m per year.
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">I am afraid that they can decline (except where a court order has been obtained).<"
I asked T-mobile to tell me where my 'phone was, they told me. No court order required, no cost to me and no offence committed. However, the data was historical, not real time.
">"Live" cell site analysis, (i.e. in kidnap and other really serious situations)is very, very expensive.<"
No it isn't, otherwise www.followus.co.uk wouldn't be viable at the costs advertised.
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Blimey Micky....don't you ever give up? We are talking about what phone companies "charge the police", not what you have been charged (or not), nor what other companies charge. Police have to go through the mobile phone companies as they hold the original data, 3rd party vendors do not. When it comes to evidential requirements, only the source of the data will do.
If you want to really know what is going on, make a Freedom of Information Act request to any police force and ask them what they pay for mobile phone data in a year.
OK your turn.
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If this discussion doesn't revert back to motoring, it's gonna be locked.
DD.
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I *knew* I should have patented the idea
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=14...9
Remember though, if it's a PAYG phone, you have to make a call from that phone periodically so that the network doesn't switch it off. On 02 and Orange, it used to be that providing one call was made every six months, they wouldn't remove the number from their network. Also, with 02 I think, you also have to have credit remaining on the SIM otherwise they might still cut you off. Could also apply to other networks.
And now back to motoring.
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Remember though, if it's a PAYG phone, you have to make a call from that phone periodically so that the network doesn't switch it off.
With O2 (and others?) it is now 'make *or receive*':
7.1 If you do not make or receive a call at least once in any 6 month period your Mobile Phone will be disconnected and any credits left on your Account will be forfeited.
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If you set it to silent, and set it to divert to voicemail on no reply, does that count as recieved?
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Only problem I see with this plan is if the car is in a signal black spot.
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With Virgin PAYG,you have the option of paying by DD,so you only pay if you make a call.They offer this option on Nokia 1100.
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Gosh DD, you were well ahead with your igoodea.
I don't think having to make a call would be a problem, receiving even less so, and if you forget, you can get free O2 SIMs easily enough. You need credit to send a pairing text when you first set it up, so you would have to credit a new SIM with the minimum amount anyway. This idea would be excellent for say a caravan or a irreplaceable classic. To those who say you wouldn't want your car back, I agree, but if they attacked you or your family to get the car, or burgled the house for the keys, you would be pleased to know where the robbers are and the history of their movements.
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DIY tracker - great idea ...
Seems to me the problem with the commercial covert installations of similar name is that (unless I'm wrong?), the customer has no way of verifying whether it's still working/serviceable, other than by paying a hefty fee for a test.
Like insurance, you pays your money, in the hope you'll never need to deploy it - but you do need the reassurance that it's always on standby.
I'll be interested to hear how this works out.
Oz (as was)
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Sorry to hear of your misfortune, Ishok.
I tried this on the caravan when I lent it to the in-laws but the mobile appeared to keep switching itself off. Anyway, I use www.findamobile.com to track the family's mobiles. When I subscribed you got a few free searches. Be warned, the error in locating mobiles can run into kilometres in rural areas.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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You need some sort of a trickle charger - rather than the standard car charger.
And somebody was right that once you are in rural areas, and there are many fewer phone masts, so many fewer cells, your car could be almost anywhere.
However, given you can buy a GPS receiver for peanuts nowadays, somebody ought to be able to do something cheaper with one of those...
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When I was in Japan last year I saw mobiles with GPS built in. Parents can track them to get an exact fix to a few metres.
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Mobiles with GPS are very soon going to be on the market in the UK, but they are no use for the application described as they need line of sight to at least two/three satellites. They won't get that tucked away in a dark place, unless they have an external antenna. Even out in the open air they will struggle in city centres surrounded by high buildings.
Cell site location is fine, but it's restricted by the density of cell sites. If the crim hides your car in a barn in the middle of the countryside, where cells are large, it won't give you a good fix - so you'll have to look in plenty of barns!
The GPS handsets will be top of range models to begin with I expect, so retailing at £200.00 ish, unless you take a contract, in which case you might as well subscribe to the existing tracking cos.
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Well mine is all in and operational, the fix at my workplace is excellent, the building is in an inner city field/park, and the building appears on the map slap in the middle of the circle. At home (urban), it was the middle of a car park opposite and set quite far back from the road, probably 200-300 metres from centre of circle. This was with T Mobile, I then got a Vodaphone SIM after reading they were more accurate and found both to be way off ie, right on the edge of the circle.
What I have found is that the location it gives is the same from day to day, ie if I track the unit at home or work on the same network on different days, it always reads as being in the same spot as last time.
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