thanks for the replies. This 5% blend sounds like its the way forward for me. i drive a 306 turbo diesel 1995 any recomendations for this? or has anybody got a 306 diesel and tried biodiesel? also i like in stoke on trent and i dont know any filling stations close by selling it at the pumps
cheers
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www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/outlets.htm
306 turbodiesel shouldn't have any problem running on a higher blend than 5% - in fact, I'd say it's probably ok to use 100% biodiesel. Couple of precautions: first, find out if your fuel lines or seals are made of natural rubber or synthetic rubber. Synthetic rubber was introduced in the first half of the 90s to counteract degradation of natural rubber components by ULSD when it was brought in, and your car may just be old enough not to have this, although I doubt it. Biodiesel can have the same effect on natural rubber, but the synthetic compound is impervious to this. However, by now vulcanisation should have rendered any rubber components impervious anyway, so most likely not an issue.
Another thing to watch out for is that using pure or nearly pure biodiesel means that your fuel system will have any gunge cleaned out of it, which can end up on the fuel filter. If there's a lot of gunge to clean out, the fuel filter can end up a bit clogged. Replacing it as part of a normal service will take care of this regardless, so I suggest switching to pure bio when a service is 800-1000 miles away. However, you are likely to be unaffected by unless your car has been run on poor quality fuel or has starship mileage.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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thanks for the reply i appreciate people taking time out to reply. i have only ever used good quality shell, bp or esso fuel so i might give the biodiesel a try if i can find a good supplier.
Does anyone think that biodiesel will replace diesel over time as natural resources run out? is this the reason modern cars are using synthetic engine oil?
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Sadly biodiesel can't be produced in the sort of quantities that would be required to meet current consumption demand and with current engine efficiency. Most optimistically only about 10-15% of UK fuel consumption could be replaced in this way. There just isn't enough land to grow the fuel crops. However, the potential for producing biodiesel from algae in multi-storey production facilities has yet to be fully explored. Synthetic engine oil isn't really connected with use of biodiesel as fuel, it's just what enables longer periods between servicing and protects the engine better. The majority of car companies have for the most part ignored biodiesel in favour of trendier, but ultimately pointless investment in hydrogen technology.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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When I worked for an oil company, they told staff that there was realistically at keast 300 years worth of oil left, I don't knw whether this was untrue, as most sources say not, but then there are a hell of a lot of hidden agendas.
It's a shame so many places only do 5% biodiesel, what's the oint, it'l insignificant, and probably more of a marketing ploy like shea butter hand cream or tea tree shampoo, in other words a drip so they can use the feel-good name on the label.
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Don't agree that it's just a feel-good sap to conscience. 5% blend offers advantages of better fuel economy over pure derv due to cleaner burn caused by higher oxygen content. Also more lubricating, so better for engine longevity. It's much better than derv for emissions of CO2, CO, SO2 and particulates, I believe the reduction is somewhere in excess of 20% with just 5% bio blend. This means significant improvements in air quality. Also means you're using 5% less of finite fossil fuel reserves (300 years? maybe with an unlimited budget for extraction and refinement, but realistically I think it's a small fraction of that) and 5% less imported fuel (I think that after Iraq and the price hikes for Russian gas, people are starting to understand the importance of limiting independence on imported fuel as much as possible). But yes, I'd rather see blends of 15% or 20% being widely available. The link for suppliers I posted above includes a company which will deliver 100% biodiesel to any part of the country.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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I used to have a 306 dturbo and xantia(s) with same engine and run both on veg oil. the car will tell you when it's had enough when it's starts to run a lumpy from cold, then just ease the mix the other way with a bit more derve or petrol. They have a heated fuel filter so can get away with it better than some other cars, like my fiesta.
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Does anyone think that biodiesel will replace diesel over time as natural resources run out?
The UK Government has now committed itself to meeting the EU target of 5.75% road fuel from renewable sources by 2010. At the moment its about 0.2%. Some other EU countries are way ahead of us. But what is the UK Govt. doing to promote production and usage? The problem for them is they get 20p/litre less tax revenue on it; also oil companies obviously dont like it because they can't make it out of oil.
We can keep using oil for plastics manufacture and all the other uses, but as there is an alternative fuel, we might as well maximise use of it. What are we going to do, wait until oil has nearly run out, and have to pay £50 per litre for fuel?
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What model of Saab is it (year, engine)? 15% may be as high a blend as is advisable.
My Saab is a 2.2 TiD, 1999 model. I've really struggled to get any info on whether my car would be okay on it. Saab UK said, "we've done research on it, but we can't tell you whether it will be okay, its a sensitive subject".
There is a bloke on the Saabscene forum who I assume is still running his on a 20% blend and he has not yet reported any problems. I've seen some US research that says nearly all cars "should" be okay on a 20% blend. I wouldn't try mine on any more than 20%, but at the moment I cant get hold of it anyway.
The nearest place used to be a Tesco 15 miles away for the 5% stuff, but last time I went they had stopped selling it. IMO 5% is not enough for you to get any benefit anyway; the 15% blend was when I got some free by mail order. I could buy in bulk but I havent got anywhere to store it at home...
cheers,
Rich
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veg oil and biodiesel could be on its way out if the article in The Independent is correct, fuel duty on veg oil going up from approx 27p to 47p thus negating any financial savings for those motorists and companies using/making biodiesel.
Short term money grabbing chancellors!
StarGazer
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veg oil and biodiesel could be on its way out if the article in The Independent is correct, fuel duty on veg oil going up from approx 27p to 47p thus negating any financial savings for those motorists and companies using/making biodiesel. Short term money grabbing chancellors!
Yeah I think it stinks how the Govt. go on about environmental stuff, then they do something like this!
The veg. oil users expected veg. oil to get the same "green fuel" tax rate as biodiesel. But instead the Govt. HMRC decided it was not a green fuel but an "alternative fuel", so it got the 47.1p rate of tax. There are groups lobbying the Govt. to get veg. oil reclassified as green fuel, so it remains to be seen whether HMRC will relent.
Biodiesel is still okay because at the point of sale, the veg. oil has already been converted, so it gets the 27.1p rate of tax.
If I could I would get veg. oil from Makro for 41p/litre, and occasionally stick the odd 5 or 10 litres in my tank, but unfortunately its not recommended in my car because of the type of injection pump its got.
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Saab UK said, "we've done research on it, but we can't tell you whether it will be okay, its a sensitive subject".
Sounds like the current official BMW position.
Fuel caps on latest cars show the word Biodiesel with a big 'X' through it.
Oz (as was)
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>> Saab UK said, "we've done research on it, but we can't tell >> you whether it will be okay, its a sensitive subject". Sounds like the current official BMW position. Fuel caps on latest cars show the word Biodiesel with a big 'X' through it. Oz (as was)
Its similar with VW too. It was discussed on a different forum that older Tdi engines are okay on 100% bio., some current models are but Golf and Touran are not, and it would void your warranty. Golfs could if they were specially adapted, but adapted ones are unavailable in the UK.
Another bloke phoned Renault UK and asked if he could run his Trafic van on biodiesel, and they said no, not even a blend. Then he phoned Renault France and they said it would be fine on 5% bio, because most of the diesel sold in France is 5% biodiesel.
So are these cars actually at risk from running on biodiesel?
All sounds fishy to me!
Rich.
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Most of the diesel in France contains between 2% and 5% biodiesel. This goes back years to when ULSD was introduced and was found to be lacking in terms of lubrication without an additive. The French government chose to support their farmers rather than the petro-chemical industry, so encouraged the use of biodiesel as the additive, giving farmers a fuel crop to grow. Any diesel car sold on the French market is capable of accepting at least 5% biodiesel. In Germany, the availability of biodiesel is much wider. However, with some of the more modern, ultra-high pressure injection engines it seems that pure biodiesel is no longer suitable, at least until a way of adapting it for use in these engines is found. However, what's sold as "biodiesel" in this country is usually just a 5% blend - the same as what is sold as ordinary diesel in France. Check with your fuel supplier and if it's 5% it should be no problem.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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I quite frequently use the 5% stuff from Sainsbury's, and, while I haven't done any scientific studies, it *appears* to produce better MPG in my Merc C270CDi. Driven in exactly the same way (steady speeds on long motorway runs) it will repeatably nudge 50MPG with Sainsbury's 5% biodiesel, rather than around 45MPG with Mobil / Esso / Shell.
I did also get 50MPG from a tankful of Asda diesel bought in Bristol, but I don't know if that was bio or not. However the credit card operated pumps there confused me and put 7p (thank goodness I noticed immediately) of unleaded petrol in first!
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