Just wandered how many times you took your practical driving test? I am originally from Australia so converted my driving license straight to British. My hubby is from the US and has his driving license for 17 years (also holding an Israeli HGV license and motorcycle with 0 motoring offences in both countries all these years).
He just failed his 2nd test here. The first time he had one minor fault and one serious fault (slight late cancellation of signalling after a roundabout). The second time he had 0 minor faults but at the end of the test at the ?reverse in to bay? he ended the manoeuvre with the front wheel of the Mini touching the white line but within the Bay!! Guess what the tester rewarded him with a failure again!! Is there anything else we don?t know (just badly paid testers?)? Now don't get me wrong I am not against a system where we produce good drivers but this look like an overkill in both cases, correct me if I'm wrong.
Is there some quota system, or what is the best time to take the test? Our town?s DSA pride itself on 56% passing rate so we must be doing something wrong. His driving instructor told him people usually make 10 minor faults in average so how do they all get to pass? To begin with, our test system is flawed. I have not heard of another system where failure to park exactly in the middle of a bay can constitute an immediate failure. Most other systems like the US and Israel just deduct points.
I would personally like to see the statistics of how many people died due to wonky parking. Why parking not completely straight is not a minor fault but a serious one?! I can now see why passing the driving test in the UK is the hardest place of all EU countries (quote from ?Driving? on the Times newspaper) it?s not because it is a better system it?s because they can fail you on trivialities even though they know you can drive perfectly good. Ok he booked another one for March. I think you can fly to Slovenia with that kind of money and pass your driving test with ease (Quote from Autocar) and than convert it to a UK one!
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The second time he had 0minor faults but at the end of the test at the reverse in to bay he ended the manoeuvre with the front wheel of the Mini touching the white line but within the Bay!!
I would personally like to see the statistics of how many people died due to wonky parking. Why parking not completely straight is not a minor fault but a serious one?!
The "reverse into bay" is not a parking test, but an assessment of vehicle control (just like the turn in the road or 3-point turn)
If you look at the white line at the edge as another vehicle or pedestrian you will see that touching it is not a minor fault!
To pass you do not have to be "completely straight",but you must be in the bay.
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If the two tests were otherwise fine, then there's an excellent chance he'll pass without any problems next time. Your local pass rate seems very high to me. The test centres near me (including the one where I passed) have a pass rate closer to 30 per cent.
Useful resources:
www.dsa.gov.uk
www.2pass.co.uk
These explode some of the myths, including the idea that there's a quota of passes. If this were the case, there wouldn't be such wide local variations in the pass rate.
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From what I have seen and heard, failures for "serious" faults are in general deserved. Has he had lessons - "experienced" drivers who think they know best often have problems passing tests like this. They can also exagerate to minimise their own failings.
Martin
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That's what is so interesting he did not took it without preparation (very practical my man:)). He actually took 10 hours of training with the local AA school and they told him he will pass first time:( . The AA also told him he can straight the car and correct his position if needed but the examiner did not let him (I know it cue?s I stood in DSA parking).
The reason it hurts is that he is really a good driver (he drives the kids everywhere). Plain and simple he is better than me and my mother (he has this advanced driver certificate from the US under his belt as he was an NYPD officer for few years). In April he will be here for one year and if he will not pass by than we are in a big problem, you see, than my mom will have to drive the kids everywhere and she is an awful driver (but she did pass her UK test in 1974).
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That's what is so interesting he did not took it without preparation...
Maybe he should have done a little preparation to learn exactly what the examiner is looking for. I'm a little surprised that he didn't realise that failing to park between the white lines was an automatic failure. The web sites I mentioned above tell you everything you need to know.
I suspect you really have nothing to worry about. On a good day he'd have passed first time, and he will next time unless he's very unlucky. I realise the main problem is the time it takes to get another test date. If this becomes an issue, I seem to remember it's possible to call the DSA to ask if any cancellations have made earlier appointments available. My own instructor used to spend much of his time between lessons doing this for his pupils.
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My barber (of Albanian extraction I believe) was complaining about this recently. Apparently he has been for at least 6 tests now, and has never made it through the full test (ie: the examiner has asked to get out of the car and walk back). The examiners keep telling him to take some lessons, but in his view his driving is fine. I suppose it must be ok in Albania!
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AW, that sounds like the basis of a gag on something like the Fast Show. What are his hair cutting skills like?
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AW, that sounds like the basis of a gag on something like the Fast Show. What are his hair cutting skills like?
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Haircuts fine, wouldnt trust him to shave me though. His chief advantage is cheapness...
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Reading this thread, I'm reminded of how lucky I was to do my test in the narrow streets of deepest South London on a very busy day.
Reverse into position between lines? Forget it, there was no such parking space available.
Hillstart? The only available place was on a very steep hill, behind a badly-parked huge van, far too close to a busy junction. The examiner was so concerned that nobody lost their temper at our pulling in at such a daft spot that he didn't scrutinise my technique very carefully.
You may want to consider trying the South Norwood test centre next time round: www.dsa.gov.uk/DTCInfo.asp?id=2360&Cat=-1&ShowRout...0
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My 2 kids took their tests in the last few yrs and both passed 2nd time. Pretty well everyone around here is taught by the same instructor and he said he'd given up trying to figure out who would pass and who would fail - he thinks it's more to do with how the testers react.
Obviously canditates vary, but he said those who ought to sail through, fail, and those who he's really dubious about sometime pass, yet they'll admit afterwards they made all sorts of errors.
The only thing I can suggest is perhaps your husband is giving the examiners cause to think that he's not had much practice in the UK - does he understand the British driving instructor mentality? No joking, chatting, smart answers etc.
By the way, failing to park in the centre of the bay should be a capital offence!
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If the husband is coming here in April for one year only, why does he need a UK licence? Can't he drive on the US licence for no more than one year?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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If the husband is coming here in April for one year only, why does he need a UK licence? Can't he drive on the US licence for no more than one year?
Espada, I read the situation as being that he is here longer-term, but since the rules allow him to use his US licence for only one year, by April he will either have to pass a UK driving test or stop driving.
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He drives here for almost a year but as an ex policeman he is more concentrating on driving well than chatting.
He is much more of a cool cucumber when it comes to driving even when yobs drives very close to his back, he never ever go above speed or brake the 2 second gap (he say this is the most common cause for collision in his part of the world).
I think I am more peeved than him as he just say quietly that it's reminded him the way the corrupt testers in the Bronx used to make a buck by failing their students few times to keep their jobs. He was in the bay but not 100% straight and this is something which should be within the tolerable limit, as I said before: simple overkill.
By the way I can think of 101 more serious things that should be considered as a capital offence, just look around you.. (women talking on the phone while eating and driving is something I see everyday few times a day - and they passed their driving test I presum)
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He was in the bay but not 100% straight and this is something which should be within the tolerable limit...
Your earlier post said he was touching the white line. I remember from my own driving lessons that you have to be within the lines to pass.
More on the subject at www.2pass.co.uk/bayparking.htm.
I'm sure this won't be a problem next time, but a bit of reading up on what the examiner is looking for won't come amiss.
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Without seeing the incidents your other half failed on, it would be difficult to say whether he was harshly treated or not. However, examiners are to a certain extent slaves to their test centre's average pass rate, whatever the DSA may claim. If their results are too far out of line it shows up, and the supervising examiners are quite likely to start an intensive monitoring of their performance by sitting in their tests and observing. They can even be sent back to the training centre at Cardington for "re-education" if they do not come up to scratch.
To maintain a trouble free life they adjust their standards from time to time, from letting borderline incidents go with a telling off to in order to get the rate up, or using the known awkward test routes and marking by the book to reduce it. It will be officially denied and their is no appeal, because both your other half's faults were technically a fail. But for those who favour regular re-testing, take note. The reality can be harsh.
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Just wandered how many times you took your practical driving test? I am originally from Australia so converted my driving license straight to British. My hubby is from the US and has his driving license for 17 years (also holding an Israeli HGV license and motorcycle with 0 motoring offences in both countries all these years). He just failed his 2nd test here. The first time he
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I've gone the other way (UK->US) and taken the US driving test.
The UK driving test is very, very, very much harder.
Before he wastes any more time and money on tests, he needs to go out with a good instructor, and forget everything he "knows" about driving, and learn to drive again in the way the instructor shows him.
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Thank you for this link, look like a very useful site. The driving school my hubby went to can use some of the info here.
The problem according to him was: he never fail a bay parking before (during a driving lesson that is) so the instructor never had to work with him on that point. Quote from the site do show that the UK driving test is all about assessing a set of fix procedures and not really a true assessment of the true driver abilities (which might explain why drivers from the real world find it hard as they don?t drives like robots god forbid).
One big different is, he say that he was told to reverse from left to right without been giving the choice (so I guess it is up to the tester).
See quote from 2pass.co.uk :
--- You should be aware that if any "shunting" (moving forwards then back again) is needed to correct your ultimate position between the lines, then it must be done BEFORE your car enters the bay. Beware: they're really picky on this one! I've seen people fail for having just half of one tyre over a bay line. Critics say that if the Examiner has to open the door & lean out to check the line, how the heck is an inexperienced driver supposed to be able to judge !!! ----
This was added in 1999 so there must be some stats now on the huge reduction in bay parking incidents, I mean after all there is enough revenue generated from re-tests to pay someone to check if this is working or not. The conclusion is that if most people who were taught to drive like robots just in order to pass an expensive test seems to forget it very quickly (hence part of the reason for steady increase in accidents), than just by adding more difficulties to the test year on year, the DSA are taking out the important element of real life driving completely from the driving tuition program as driving instructors are very busy showing the potential driver how to fit a small car within two white lines. By the way in Israel night driving and motorway driving is now part of the test (and now they are adding specific winter/summer driving skills to the program, more important I think than spending time on showing the tester where is the washer liquid bottle..). ..Ok got to go home now as the night shift is over and the kids will need breakfast.
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The problem is that we are taught how to do basic control and how to pass a test when you learn to drive and not necessarily how to drive, theses are completely different.You learn to drive after the test but also pick up bad habits which are difficult to get out of.The magority of drivers who have been driving for a number of years would not pass there test,you only have to look at the standard of driving on our roads.
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rustbucket (the original)
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I have only one surefire suggestion,not implying however that this is what worked for me although it has for quite a few that I have suggested it to.
The thing is to ask around regarding the test centres in your area.
Some have downrightly biased examiners-Avoid.
Try and choose THE smallest centre you can, one with preferably less than 4-5 examiners, and avoid the ones with youngish ones(if you are a good looking female then the converse may be true).
Then after preparing yourself with regard to the manouvres etc, keep applying to write the test in that centre ONLY as frequently as possible.
Meaning that the day you fail a test,go back online and book another as early as possible online, since you have last minute vacant slots due to cancellations.I understand there is a minimum period between tests?2 weeks though.The thing is to keep taking it and provided you are fairly ok, its best to spend the ?30 quid on another test rather than on another lesson.
Hopefully you should pass it soon.
If not sooner or later you will become a familiar face with the examiners and lets face it, humans are human, and if not anything else sooner you will face the same person again if you are unlucky enough to fail the test repeatedly.
It would be a real brute who would fail you more than a few times , provided you havent made a massive mistake.If not anything else atleast perseverence will pay off.
(Believe me this works and is better than attempting the test at a different large centre each time-I have 4 very grateful friends who are driving now)
Pls dont get me wrong, the examiners have set criteria against which they score your performance and Im not suggesting that an obviously deficient performance will get you through!
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Probably better not to approach this from the point of view that there is something wrong with the test, or the examiners. Working on the assumption that the test is fair, and that your husband has the requisite skills and knowledge of what is required, it is then a case of stringing it all together - minors errors excepted, you have to get everything right on the same test, which can be a bit of a lottery especially for anyone who is nervous.
We all know of poor drivers who passed first time (so the test is not that hard) and good, careful drivers who failed more than once. I think the best advice to your husband would be don't take it personally, keep calm, make sure you know your stuff, and keep trying.
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Almera,
When did you hubby last go "home" to the US? IIRC, he can drive for 12 months after his LAST entry into the UK. Go to France and back for a day trip?
HTH
Joe
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Probably cheaper than re-test but when he will get his UK passport he can only drive on the international for one year.
Make you think about the strange policy of letting nationals of some countries to convert their license without getting in to the expensive process of getting a full UK one.
It is understandable that drivers from countries like Japan, South Africa and Australia are more eligible as they all drive like us on the right and have up to date roads and licensing system (but I did heard that it is not what it used to be in modern South Africa ? one can buy a license from dodgy sources very easily)
Did you know, for example if you are from a country like Zimbabwe, Slovenia or Greece you can pay the DVLA £25 and convert your license. All these countries has sub-standard motoring culture and road infrastructure (been to Zim and Greece last year) even compare to pothole Britain 2006.
But if you are coming from the US/ Korea / Israel / Switzerland , where drivers has to pass and drive in a motoring world which is similar to us here, and in many ways far better, they need to participate in the expensive lottery game of the DVLA testing system.
So what I am saying is that this system do need to look on how the driver is driving but also on his experience, and frankly if you drove for 17 years in 3 different countries and holding an HGV and advanced motoring certificate wouldn?t you feel miffed if some pink fluffy dice in a shiny waistcoat will fail you on something like quarter of a wheel touching a white line?
My hubby?s driving instructor told him this small story: A wealthy woman came to her and asked to take her 23 years old Hungarian au pair (with an EU driving license) for a quick assessment of how she drives as she is going to drive the kids from school in the family?s X5. After 10 minutes the instructor had to stop her and take her back home as she was driving so bad that she almost caused a pile-up on the A14. She told the family that they should not let this woman drive the kids (or anywhere for that matter). Without brushing everyone in the same brush I just hope that someone in the DVLA is aware that they give license to kill for £25, based on some EU agreement. Did it ever happen to you that a foreign lorry driver missed to see you when he tries to take over? Happen to me 3 years ago on the M25 and it was pretty scary!
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Many many years ago during my one and only driving test, the examiner actually grabbed the steering wheel to correct my alignment whilst proceeding along the highway; I also had a problem reading the numberplate.
I am glad to say his confidence in my abilities was not misplaced; two very minor accidents in all those years.
*waits for flack*
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Was this pre war, steptoe?
Reminds me of my grandfathers 'test' in 1928 (ish).
Basically it went like this. Grandad arrives at C o c kermouth town hall - 'May I have a driving licence please?' Clerk - 'That will be X shillings please, but first you have to take a test - come with me'
Granddad follows clerk outside. clerk: 'Can you see that car?' (points across street). Granddad 'Yes'. Clerk 'Congratulations, here is your licence'
Granddad never took a lesson, and drove for the next 50 years without an accident. Terrifying to travel with though!
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Learn from your mistakes and Sit the test again. Any COMPETENT driver should be capable of reverse parking a car straight.
Paul
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Don't get too upset - it's a bit of a lottery the test in the UK ! Yes it's fairly tough, but you really can't tell how well you have done - after all it's humans who are testing you !
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