Yesterday travelling from Cardiff to Llanelli in my sister in laws Megane Scenic with her at the wheel. A truly frightening 60 miles - nothing much less than 85 on the motorway and 1 car length from the vehicle in front, showing her husband how to programme the GPS at 85 which involved looking at the Palm screen which was in his lap, opening bags of sweets, turning round to talk to her 5 year old, approaching vehicles in the middle lane and leaving it until a car length or so before deciding to overtake - the body roll in the Scenic was horrendous - each overtake felt like an 'Elk test'. No appreciation that if a car pulls out in front of you he may be going slower so reduce speed to maintain a safe gap - no accelerate to reduce gap significantly and tailgate until he moves over - she wasn't aggresive in her manner, it's just how she drives.
She doesn't realise that speed cameras are there to make you slow down for the whole of the reduced stretch of the M4, not to allow brake tests from said 85 to 50 in a short a time as possible just before you reach the speed camera. When she did slow to 50 she stayed in the outside lane of a dual carriageway whilst the inside lane was empty and held traffic up, she got annoyed when someone undertook her.
My wife has requested that I be drive next time.
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Not long out of University with a good friend of mine -- he had excellent car control and was complimented by the instructors at a Brands Hatch track day event, but on the public road he was terrifying. He had a very interesting driving style I've never seen anywhere else; it's hard to explain but he would be going into a corner at what appeared to me to be a suicidal speed but would kind of 'twirl' the wheel while appearing effortlessly nonchalant as though in a world of his own.
Using an electric shaver and then eating a bowl of cereals (with milk) wedged between his thighs. Keeping up a running commentary to the guys in the back of the car about understeer and oversteer (with demonstrations) on Kent "B" roads. Complaining that he didn't have his contacts in and couldn't find his glasses. Complaining of headaches (he had a serious thyroid problem of some sort which caused him to go 48 hours without sleep on many occasions).
But the main thing was his apparent lack of attention. He was always happy and jolly, not consciously showing off, laughing and chatting to his passengers, while driving at a ridiculous speed; he always seemed to avoid pedestrians, unexpected corners/obstacles, vehicles pulling out, etc., with that strange 'twirling' he did, and never showed any evidence of fear, caution, or, in fact, the slightest awareness of his surroundings.
Last I heard he had a Lancia Delta Turbo Integrale. And is accident-free since 1989. Maybe age has brought some degree of caution.
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I dropped my son off at Uni in Sheffield early one January. Turned into a downhill bend on the Snake Road and suddenly realised that it was iced over : no chance of stopping and I had no feel to the steering. Went on down, every time it veered off I corrected, just missed a car coming around the bend at the bottom, passed between two or three other cars which had come unstuck. One was nose down in a ditch. Son asks, "How did you do that?" I didn't like to answer.
The accepted wisdom is not to touch the brakes or the throttle, turn the front wheels into the direction which you want to go every time you veer off, and pray! I've heard it said that you should keep drive to the wheels because a driven wheel is less likely to stop turning and hence less likely to skid.
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If the snow hasn't turned to ice, I always thought that stamping hard on the brakes and locking them (sorry, ABS drivers) will build up a wedge of snow and stop you fairly promptly.
Fortunately, never had to try it out, but do have a skid pan session planned in the next few months so will experiment there.
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when driveing tricky roads in the snow in the car my method is the same as when in the 4wd:
low gears and use the gears to brake decend slopes without gas letting the engine manadge the speed, Steer in to skids and avoid breaking at all costs.
I would have thought slaming on the brakes braking on snow would spin the entire car around abs or not.
Paul
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One thing which surprised me when shifting from "D" to "2" before my major incident was how the car seemed to run away from me and pick up speed.
I seem to remember that the very early Audi Quattros has ABS on/off switches so that if you were driving on snow you could turn it off to let the build up of snow help stop you.
Next time, and I hope there is not a next time, I'll use the gears and not the brakes.
Cheers,
CM
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Driving a fuel bowser one winter in Norway on studded tyres down the last 300m steepest hill i think i,ve ever been down. In low ratio,4WD engaged, gently apply the brakes and all 4 wheels lock up and just gains momentum, about as quick as we realise its covered in ice.
Luckily manage to keep it staight by releasing the brakes, and plowed about 8 feet into snowbank at the bottom of the hill.
Slight problem:- no recovery, no Tow out, so had to then spend 4 hours with shovel digging.
How i laugh now, certainly didn't then.
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Out with my RL last winter and discovered that without any weight in the back it has no grip and does some delicate pirouettes in the ice which startles oncoming drivers.
In Denmark years ago in the snow and minus 28 i was showing off to two mates in a Series 2a LandRover with a truck cab and was ramming drifts with aplomb, until on reaching the crest of a hill ,saw to my ,and their,horror that there was a steep slope which shone evilly in the moonlight.
I just let it go and it was erily silent in the cab as we shot uncontrolably down the hill.
As we neared the bottom peering into the gloom i could see to my relief that there was no wall or worse, just a ploughed field,we shot across that field at about 60 odd mph and more vibrated across than bounced.
It was all very exciting and credit to the old girl that she stayed in one piece.
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If the snow hasn't turned to ice, I always thought that stamping hard on the brakes and locking them (sorry, ABS drivers) will build up a wedge of snow and stop you fairly promptly. Fortunately, never had to try it out, but do have a skid pan session planned in the next few months so will experiment there.
There are some views that under certain conditions ABS will increase your stopping distance. However, certainly in the UK's temperate climate, you will experience the advantages of ABS far more often than you will any disadvantages.
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If the snow hasn't turned to ice, I always thought that stamping hard on the brakes and locking them (sorry, ABS drivers) will build up a wedge of snow and stop you fairly promptly.
Fortunately, never had to try it out, but do have a skid pan session planned in the next few months so will experiment there.
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It doesn't work, in my experience; I've been sideways across a road a couple of times because I was too heavy-footed on the brakes in snow. What tends to happen is that the front wheels slow down with the the wedge of snow, but the back wheels keep going, and the car spins.....
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Not long out of University with a good friend of mine -- he had excellent car control and was complimented by the instructors at a Brands Hatch track day event, but on the public road he was terrifying. etc etc Last I heard he had a Lancia Delta Turbo Integrale. And is accident-free since 1989. Maybe age has brought some degree of caution.
Must say I hope he hasn't. Sounds like a great natural talent to me. Of course he may just have been lucky so far.
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Approaching another vehicle without sufficient braking is alas no novelty to me, nor the subsequent impact. But most crashes in very slippery conditions are at quite low speed. Gives you plenty of time to know what's going to happen before it does, but doesn't usually hurt more than the wallet and schedule. In fact most crashes are at low speed, wheels locked and bang, open-ended bill and a lot of embarrassment, nothing worse. Thinking back I have had three very plain near-lethal experiences, none involving an actual impact, over the years. The first was in America and the other two here. The one I would mention happened on the A34 a few years ago, between the M4 and Winchester travelling south on a wet weekday evening about 6 or 7. For those who don't know it it is a rolling sub-motorway dual carriageway. There was slow traffic and evening eager-beaver commuters. I always hurry but not knowing the road, and it being rainy and busy, was only doing about 75 or so, with an eager beaver tailgating. Spotting a gap in the slow traffic coming over a crest, I pulled into the nearside lane, and the eager beaver was beside me immediately. Then I saw the articulated truck pulling out of the layby about 70 yards ahead. Its driver saved my life by divining the situation in his mirror, in the dark,and ploughing straight back onto the grass verge. I could see and hear the lorry bounding over the lumps there as I squeezed past. Thought of stopping to thank him, then thought better not. Nasty one.
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Down hill, snow, ice and gravity overcoming what little co-efficient of friction exists between vehicle and terra firma sounds familiar.
1973 I was a young squaddie on exercise deep within a cold snowy Germany. Bedford RL full of comms gear, towing a diesel generator and about to set of down a rural track with a steep slope covered with compacted snow. "4WD, low ratio, 2nd gear and very gentle ought to do it" I thought, so headed down the hill in that configuration.
I was soon sliding sideways and jack knifing as gravity turned my rig into a sledge! I contemplated jumping out and rolling but decided not to as the trailer would probably hit me. next choice was to try and make it into some woods ahead of me so that the trees would stop me. Fortunately just before the woods I managed to steer onto a rough patch of ground and arrest my downhill progress with good old cadence braking.
Army truck tyres in those days needed the utmost respect on wet cobbled roads and ice. hey were however excellent at ploughing up fields!
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My worst was nothing to do with me. Driving UP a snow covered road (main Stonehaven to Aberdeen road) in mid 1960s, Mini coming donwhill started to spin : rotated 5-6 times across entire road. I pulled to one side but if he had continued he would have hit me. Fortunately he stopped..
madf
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I used to have to drive all over Ireland 1 week in every 2 and the whole 2 years I did it were the scariest motoring experiences of my life.
It was like Wacky Races every day
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Heading south on the A19, doing about 80 in a XM GTI.
Dual carriageway with light traffic in the inside lane, I'm in the outside lane, as we approached a junction a MkIII Cortina turned right from the central reservation cross-over into my lane at about 60 yards distance.
Didn't have time to think, car on the inside so just pulled into the cross-over and squeezed between him and the crash barrier. XM's are great cruisers but agile they ain't!
I didn't see the driver but my partner said he was wearing a hat which I've come to realise means avoid at all costs.
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Years ago in a Hillman Imp on a sloping part of the wide single carriageway A358 Taunton-Ilminster road (now a traffic-clogged nightmare). An oncoming Granada towing a caravan began to snake badly. Eventually the caravan broadsided right in front of us and the sliding weight snapped off one wheel, which flipped right over us like a tiddlywink! The van missed us by a whisker and the driver, incredibly, managed to right the whole plot and stop in a straight line.
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France, summer 2004 Clermont Ferrand towards Le Mont Dore. Stopped at top of Col de Ventouse for massive thunderstorm including hailstones the size of peanuts. Eventually eased and with SWMBO at the helm we set off v gingerly on a hail covered road, commenting on fact that salt/grit were needed.
Approaching a right bend BMW coming other way too fast tailslides counterclockwise, crossing within inches of first front then passenger side of my (RHD) Xantia. Not sure if we took to the verge or not, all over too quickly.
He stopped facing wrong way on his own side, driver a youngster looking very pale indeed. Did not stop and discuss, I might have decked him!!.
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I didn't see the driver but my partner said he was wearing a hat which I've come to realise means avoid at all costs.
May I respectfully point you to the top left hand corner of this screen......?
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I was 18, coming back from a weekend on the lash with two mates at about 1am down the A19 south of Middlesbrough in the rain in my ancient Dolomite. Both of them fast asleep.
We'd really given it some stick that w/end and had about four hours sleep since Friday and although I was sober the hangover and tiredness meant mental tricks were going on - you know that feeling when your formerly superhuman self is now feeling a bit tired and vulnerable.
Nothing on road so I was on full beam. Car came the other way, flicked to dip and all lights went out it seemed. Flicked back to beam and eventually realised I had beam or sidelights on an unlit dual c/way in the middle of nowhere with about 4 hours drive ahead of me.
Today I would have carried on on full beam but not having long since passed my test I felt a great responsibility to blinding others so this was a big problem at the time.
I pulled over to think about it and my mate in passenger seat woke up. Told him situation and then had a bright idea - Dolly had four headlamps, two for beam only. So I said "I'll ping the bonnet you run out and pull the plugs on the inner lamps" "Why me?" "Cos it's raining, it's pitch black and I've just looked at my odometer which tells me this car has done 66,666 and 6 tenths of a mile - oh yes 666 666. The one and only time this would happen in the life of the car"
Quite scary at the time and made rather more so by my mate in the back seat who had woken up and heard the conversation and took it upon himself at that moment to grab us both by the shoulders with a blood curdling roar in our ears.
Don't know which was longer, the stream of expletives or the wheelspin as I took off with all that a 17 year old, 1500cc tank could muster....happy days.
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Easy one this.
Making the mistake of hiring a car whilst on a job in Peru and driving across Lima on the PanAmericana highway.
Absolute lunacy.
The next time I got a taxi and brought my Bible with me...
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You may indeed - however he's either driving in front of a camera or he ain't driving at all!
My issue is with drivers who wear hats, AFAIC any driver in a hat is a potential liability, I'll make an exception for cloth caps in MGB soft tops and that's it!
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Heading south on the A19, doing about 80 in a XM GTI. Dual carriageway with light traffic in the inside lane, I'm in the outside lane, as we approached a junction a MkIII Cortina turned right from the central reservation cross-over into my lane at about 60 yards distance. Didn't have time to think, car on the inside so just pulled into the cross-over and squeezed between him and the crash barrier. XM's are great cruisers but agile they ain't! I didn't see the driver but my partner said he was wearing a hat which I've come to realise means avoid at all costs.
The Cortina driver may have similar feelings about folks doing 80mph on a road with central reservation cross-overs ...
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The Cortina driver may have similar feelings about folks doing 80mph on a road with central reservation cross-overs ...
I couldn't agree more No Wheels, and people wonder why 'safety cameras' were invented.
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Oh come on. It makes very little difference whether you are doing 70 or 90 when some idiot waddles into your path 60 yards ahead without looking. Those crossovers are to be used with proper caution, not blindly. Speed cameras were invented to make money.
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My scariest was about 10 years ago.
Driving along busy, straight section of A-road in BL Metro 1.0, following farm tractor at about 25 mph with queue of cars behind me. Wet weather. Oncoming vehicles a long way off, so perfectly safe to pull out and overtake tractor. I start to overtake, with usual tailgater right behind me. Just as I start to pass tractor steering wheel comes off in my hands!
I assumed top of column had sheared but instinctively tried to ram wheel back on. Managed to slow car and somehow guide it to a field entarnce and pull off road. Walked back 1/2 mile to last village in rain wondering how I avoided a crash only to find a Ford Granada had just crashed in village! Me and Granada driver both turned up at a hotel about the same time to call for assistance.
In fact steering wheel nut had come undone - I'd never fiddled with it.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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Lud,
thanks for the commonsense approach - the A1 still has many crossovers and I'd be in a minority of 1 if I slowed to the legal limit every time I passed one.
If Nowheels and Klystron do, then I admire their self-control and respect for the legal limit, however I won't be dissuaded that the greater transgression was committed by the Cortina.
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If Nowheels and Klystron do, then I admire their self-control and respect for the legal limit, however I won't be dissuaded that the greater transgression was committed by the Cortina.
I quite agree that the greater transgression was committed by the Cortina ... but when I'm driving, I don't think that would be much help to the ambulance crew who cut me out of the wreckage.
That sort of dual carriageway always scares me a bit, and I treat every such crossing point as a hazard to be approached with caution. Being right isn't much consolation in a high-speed collision.
When using those crossing points myself, the hazard I fear most is someone speeding in the outside lane. That reduces my chances of seeing them in time when I'm pulling out, especially when the road is bendy (as that sort of dual carriagreway often is)
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I never did say the guy in the Cortina was blameless, far from it. Unfortunately on our roads people do often sometimes mis-judge things especially perhaps the speed of oncoming vehicles.
I know the A19 and IMHO there are places where when it is quiet and the weather conditions are okay that 80 MPH is a safe speed, and indeed I have driven the A19 at that speed. Not however when approaching junctions and cross-overs though.
With regard to safety cameras, again IMHO some of them are necessary, and many are indeed just there to generate revenue. Forget Gatso's, Truvelos, SPECS and all that stuff. I just know of two types. The genuine safety ones which are well signposted with the speed limit as you approach them, and the revenue generating ones. Notice I did say 'safety camera' and not 'speed camera'.
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OK, No Wheels and Klystron, sorry for the Jeremy Paxman tone. It's true that those crossovers are on old, often bendy and rolling as well as steeply cambered and bumpy two-lane dual carriageways. It's true that using them when there is much traffic is a bit tense: wait for the gap in both lanes, then maximum stick into the left hand lane. Not everyone seems to have got the hang of this. And it is also true that there may be times, in rain, darkness and traffic for example, when a more laid-back approach to driving down these roads is indicated. I know I sometimes go a bit too fast, and try not to. However, not going too fast and fetishising speed limits are two very different things. We all know that what seems safe and relaxed driving to some of us looks like suicidal recklessness to some others. Balancing these and many other contradictions in a continuous exercise of intellect is what drivers do all the time. And those po-faced cyclists and such think we're just a bunch of brutal rednecks and yobs!
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Thought of stopping to thank him, then thought better not. Nasty one.
Thank him, surely he caused the situation by pulling out without being sure that the lane was clear?
I had a similar situation, I was on the inside lane approx 70, a truck pulled out, two cars coming up fast on the outside lane, the first car did not realise the situation that was unfolding though the second one did and braked and flashed me, I pulled out between the two cars and avoided the truck, close shave, all happened in a split second.
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It was all very quick. The lane actually was clear until I pulled into it bearing down at speed. When the lorry started to pull out we were in the outside lane and he probably thought we would stay there. The reason I pulled in so sharply was that I was being pushily tailgated by someone who knew the road and was trying to go faster than me. The lorry driver and I made slight miscalculations, the eager beaver was driving badly in my opinion. The lorry driver saved the situation and deserved thanks (I worried a bit about his truck or cargo being damaged by the bounding over the verge). That's often how crashes happen, no one 100 per cent to blame and no one totally blameless.
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