Sun 27 Jan 2002 11:41 The greats... - Fred Stoat

This made my day (it's raining), I just saw a pristine Citroen DS with pre-suffix plates (so that makes it over 40). It still looks the business. Most modern stuff will look rubbish by the time it's 4! Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 12:12 Re: The greats... - Tom Shaw

They don't make em like they used to, eh Fred? Thank God for that. Aged classics look great because the few that survive have been painstakingly restored or kept by an owner who lavished them with TLC. The vast majority of Citroen DS's have long been in Car Heaven. Forty years from now someone will be drooling over an immaculate Vectra he has seen, and comparing tham favourably with the modern equivalent. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 15:28 Re: The greats... - David W Tom, The DS was never a Vectra. It was, and always be, a unique machine. David Reply | Report as offensive | Link Sun 27 Jan 2002 18:05 Re: The greats... - Tom Shaw I meant no offence to the DS in particular, David. I would not risk your wrath by critiicising a Citroen. I once had a ride in one that was being used by a mini-cab driver, and it was like floating on a cushion of air. But classics in general survive mainly because they were cherished by their owner, not because they were superior to modern cars. Reply | Report as offensive | Link Sun 27 Jan 2002 19:50 Re: The greats... - David W Fair point Tom. The DS was a bit special. David Reply | Report as offensive | Link Sun 27 Jan 2002 19:53 Re: The great SM - David W Guys, You may be interested there is huge support for the SM in the Citroen Car Club, with many excellent examples still running well. David Reply | Report as offensive | Link Mon 28 Jan 2002 01:27 Re: The great SM - Alyn Beattie Friend of mine had a DS 23 Pallas. What a cracking car. Headlamps that turned with the steering. Simple idea, wire running around pulleys from steeering box to back of headlamps, It made driving on country roads by night an absolute joy. Has any other car manufacturer done this since? Reply | Report as offensive | Link Mon 28 Jan 2002 08:22 Re: The great SM - David Withers David, It's good to hear that there is still much support for the SM. Do you know off-hand if and how the timing chain problem was overcome? There have been many examples of weak original design that have been improved or even cured by the aftermarket (eg. various Triumph Stag engine problems, Triumph 2500PI fuel injection equipment). Perhaps the car makers in the past should have supplied their new models to the 'classic car' boys to get them sorted before public launch! Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 12:23 Re: The greats... - Lee H

Agreed, the DS looked amazing when they released it (was it the 50s?) and still turns heads today. A spectacular piece of design and engineering, fantastic. Lee. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 13:51 Re: The greats... - THe Growler

Plenty of Mustangs still around....still head turners and sound good (V-8 that is). Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 15:52 Re: The greats... - Phil

When i have made it in life and thrown off the shackles of academia a DS is going to have a home in my stable. Ever since I saw a rusty one abandonded in Calais in 1991 when I was eleven I wanted one! I am just concerned about the future of classics - will be still be able (allowed) to run these cars in 20 years time? Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 16:08 Classics in 20yrs. - David W I hope so Phil or I'm wasting my time doing up this old Land Rover, for us now and our girls to take over in 10yrs time. David Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 16:06 Re: The greats... - richard turpin

The precursor to the DS, the 15 HP, known as the Light 15 or "Traction" had front wheel drive in 1936 I believe. The leap in design between that and the DS is amazing! Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 16:26 Re: Classics in 20yrs. - Julian Lindley

Tom, My long standing chum in Chichester has run a Citroen Traction Avant for 30 plus years. What should be an inspiration to the rest of us is that he uses it as an everyday car. More - he drives down the M25 to his workplace in Kent and back twice a week. Of course he has to get underneath the bonnet more often than most, but he tells me the air conditioning is superior to a RR system and totally reliable ( the front screen winds out!) Regards, Julian Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 17:06 Re: The greats... - Phil P

I read somewhere (DT?) that spare DS body panels are becoming very rare making DSs progressively more difficult to maintain. Great shame. I got to drive a friend's ID (budget DS) a few years ago - nothing compares to that magic-carpet ride quality. I was astonished at how many compliments it attracted from complete strangers, especially young ladies . . . Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 18:13 Re:Citroën magic-carpet ride - Bono Estente The DS I had (as a banger) would dip gracefully when a passenger got in or out. It was replaced by the CX which did not do this. The CX was still a great ride, but no longer magic. Perhaps it's because road test mags will critisise the high speed behaviour of big Citroëns through sharp bends if it's too soft that the factory has shifted the emphasis away from comfort a little. Yet most buyers of the hydraulically suspended cars buy them for the ride, not because they want to attack bends at ultimate speed. A pity there is no modern equivalent of the softly "sprung" DS, which in any case is avery good handling car. Reply | Report as offensive | Link Sun 27 Jan 2002 21:58 Re:Citroën magic-carpet ride - Darcy Kitchin Agreed, I've had 2 DSs, a Familiale 7 seater and a Super 5 saloon. Following the meaningless ideal of being able to corner hard and flat has meant that many modern cars now have a filling-loosening hard ride. If you didn't mind a bit of lean, a DS could be hustled through bends quite quickly. And if you've ever needed to make progress along unlit contry roads behind the swivelling lights of the DS or XM, it's like having your own personal street lighting. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 17:25 sadly departed - Lee H

Just been for a walk down the canal in Sowerby Bridge, and was very sad to see a burned out DS behind the Citroen (2CV) specialist there. Seems a odd car to have recieved this grisly end, although it looks like it'd been pretty well stripped before the thing was torched. Shame, really. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 17:42 Re: sadly departed - Andy Bairsto And do not forget the DS was built in the UK and before the the war the Light 15 also.the chevron goes on forever I have a XM 2.5 turbo D estate and love it I have had vehicles withend but always come back to the Chevron. Also can people remember the Allard 1954 circa alu body steel frame the same as the triumph renown you ended up with all the panels ok stacked in the corner of your garage because all the rest had rusted away. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 18:21 Re: The greats... - Ronnie Courtney

Sadly departed indeed, and well done Fred Stoat on setting us off on a trip down Memory Lane. I was lucky enough to spend some months at school in Paris not long after the DS first came out in 1955, and it certainly stuck out from more run of the mill French cars, especially for someone more used to then current British offerings. It's also worth remembering that DS was a little French joke derived from the way they pronounce their word for goddess, namely "déesse" - a goddess indeed, which evolved as I recall into the Maserati engined Citroen SM. I believe that General de Gaulle was presented with a specially constructed DS convertible when still President of France, and the Parisians used to joke that, if it came on to rain when he was being driven around with the top down, he pressed a button and - hey presto! - the rain stopped! They stopped using the convertible after the attempted assasination attempt in 1962 which was the inspiration for "The Day of the Jackal" ..... Ronnie Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 19:11 Re: The greats... Citroen SM - David Withers The SM was an incredible car but had one very bad flaw. The Maserati engine had a timing chain with no tensioner and this caused catastrophic engine failures (can't remember exactly what happened -- but it was tres expensive!). Reply | Report as offensive | Link Sun 27 Jan 2002 20:06 Station wagon - ian (cape town) There is an immaculate SM which parks near my office. I often take the time to stand and look... motoring indeed! I occasionally see a station wagon version of the DS car (incredibly decrepit, and driven by a couple who look like extra's from Grapes of Wrath! ) Were/are these common? Reply | Report as offensive | Link Sun 27 Jan 2002 21:19 Re: Station wagon - Bono Estente DS Wagon in no way a rare car, although not that many still on road compared to saloon. The ratio of estate cars to saloons increased sharply when CX took over, and again with XM Wagon, as estate car buyers became aware of the advantages of oil/gas suspension for big variations in payload. This model was named Citroën DS Safari, perhaps indiating the importance of Africa to contemporary French car makers/buyers? Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 18:52 Re: Growly Mustang - Honest John

If any Growler types in the UK fancy a 64 Mustang V8 convertible there's one entered in BCA's classic sale at Blackbushe on 11th February. It's a proper 289, not a 260, with the uprated 210bhp engine and 3-speed autobox. Mre at www.classic-car-auction.co.uk HJ Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 19:36 Re: The greats... Citroen SM - Ronnie Courtney

David And very dear too, so maybe SM stood for sadomasochistic .... Ronnie Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 19:59 Re: The greats... Citroen SM - T lucas Fella near my yard has an SM and it still looks fantastic today.Were these the cars used in the TV show Space 1999 as futuristic cars? Reply | Report as offensive | Link Sun 27 Jan 2002 22:02 Re: The greats... Citroen SM - Darcy Kitchin And didn't Burt Reynold's example get driven over the dockside in the "mean Machine"? Reply | Report as offensive | Link Sun 27 Jan 2002 22:13 Re: The greats... Citroen SM - Jim Hobson Can I ask the Citroen affictionados out there for an opinion on the new Citroen ,the C5. Honest John is quite scathing about the 5 door , but quite complimentary about the estate ,says the 5 d oor is ugly but the estate is a good car. I ask because I am about to swap my Xantia td for ???? . C5 ? OR should I opt for a mondeo (or what ) Whilst writing ,way back when I was a mere lad , my ultimate ,but unattainable aim was a Citroen "Pallas" What a machine! wheel at each corner and those great looking round sticky-out tail lamps Wow , the mere thought still excites me. Reply | Report as offensive | Link Mon 28 Jan 2002 01:15 Re: New Citroen? - Bono Estente Jim, I think your new car choice query has been buried under this latest wave of nostalgia. Great though isn't it? Until you hear from the very well informed regulars, IMHO it's agood sign that you dont mention any downside of your Xantia ownership. Take a long test drive in the opposition and see what you'd be missing!!!! Yes, go for the estate over the saloon, if the price differential isn't too great - I wouldn't know about that. But I have noticed all the Citroen dealers are offering heavilly discounted prices, make sure to research. Don't forget to include the new Primera in your list. Yes, a pity you can't still get a DS with push-button brakes, brown leather armchairs, and a 2inch hydraulic gearstick! Reply | Report as offensive | Link Mon 28 Jan 2002 11:12 Re: The greats... Citroen SM - Ian Cook Jim You're asking the question today that I will be asking in about 5 years time. What will I eventually replace the Xantia HDi with? I think by then that the styling of the C5 will have grown on us - after all, the Ford Sierra eventualy looked quite OK didn't it? The trouble with styling that instantly looks stunning is that it rarely lasts. For example, I now think that the Focus and Mondeo/Audi A4 look look passe. I like the basics of the C5 - size, suspension, HDi engine etc. but I am very concerned about the amount of electronics it has. This point will probably apply to most cars by then, so maybe it will be Hobson's choice. Ian Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 22:14 Re: The greats... - Tomo

Most modern stuff will look rubbish by the time it's 4! Including Citroens of all ages after the Light Fifteen! Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 22:19 Re: The greats... - Tomo My entry would be an NSU RO80 with a Mazda engine. (Apart from real, hairy, cars.) Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 27 Jan 2002 22:48 Re: The greats... - alex

is this fred, the testing fred of yesterday ??????????????? see TEST post by FRED on saturday26 Jan 2002 Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Mon 28 Jan 2002 03:00 Re: The great SM - THe Growler

It's the right year and spec. Let's hope it goes to a good home. Reply | Report as offensive | Link