"I dont see rusting as a major problem on modern cars."
I don't either. I can barely remember the last car I owned which had a rust problem. It was probably a 1967 Hunter which failed it's first MOT because strengthening members under the front footwells had completely rusted away and there was a hole in the floor. Now that's what I call a rust problem!
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L\'escargot.
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I am aware of a 1999 Ford Focus failing an MOT due to corrosion around the front suspension mounting areas. The vehicle had to be welded. The car in question had never had an accident and the owner was significantly out of pocket due to the difficult and time consuming work required.
New car anti corrosion or anti perforation warranty documents are not worth the paper that they are written on. Once rust begins you are well and truly on your own.
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I am aware of a 1999 Ford Focus failing an MOT due to corrosion around the front suspension mounting areas. The vehicle had to be welded. The car in question had never had an accident and the owner was significantly out of pocket due to the difficult and time consuming work required.
Dont believe it, it must have sustained some damage, an accident, a cracked battery causing undue corrosion etc.
New car anti corrosion or anti perforation warranty documents are not worth the paper that they are written on. Once rust begins you are well and truly on your own.
Rubbish, I had a wing replaced on a 1983 Metro in 1988 based on it's 6 year perforation warranty, a black MG Turbo it was and they did a great job on the repair.
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"I dont see rusting as a major problem on modern cars."
Unless its a Ford. Somehow, they seem to the only manufacturer that hasn't got the hang of this yet. Some of the newest cars with rust i've seen are Fords.
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The owner of a local body repair shop informed me that supposedly brand new replacement Ford body panels were often delivered with rust already on them & requiring extra treatment before fitting. This admittedly was prior to recent claimed galvanising treatments, but when you still hear of rust occurring on fairly new cars, (less than six years old, doubts remain about the effectivness of their rust proofing processes.
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>> "I dont see rusting as a major problem on modern cars." >> Unless its a Ford. Somehow, they seem to the only manufacturer that hasn't got the hang of this yet.
If this is indeed the case, how come so many people happily buy Fords? I've had 8 Fords (all from new) in the last 30 years and none of them had a significant rust problem. 40 or more years ago the reason that most cars were scrapped was because of rust, but not nowadays.
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L\'escargot.
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Modern era French cars dont rust. Nor do italian ones....
how life comes round......
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TourVanMan < yes its RF reborn >
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If this is indeed the case, how come so many people happily buy Fords?
Because of the badge on the front and I think this has been discussed in many a thread. EG: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=36...7
The point I was trying to make is perfectly illustrated by TVM's post.
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"Dont believe it; it must have sustained some damage, an accident, a cracked battery causing undue corrosion etc."
Rubbish Ford's do rust and always have done. A number of Ford KA owners have had structural corrosion inside the door frame area. I fully expect the bodywork on the current Ford Focus to be just as bad as the MK1 which in all honesty was questionable to say the least.
I think you will also find that claiming under the Ford Motor Companies bodywork warranty is not as easy as it should be.
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I am afraid from personal experience Ford paintwork is not as good as Peugeot /Citroen: stone chipping leads to star corrosion and sills appear very prone to this. PSA cars have much better underseal .
I found Ford applied underseal flaked off having been badly applied.
I'll not buy another Ford - although the mechanicals are very reliable..the poor paint quality is a turn off.
madf
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Rubbish Ford's
No bias there then!
do rust and always have done. A number of Ford KA owners have had structural corrosion inside the door frame area. >>
The KA is not galvanised and has been around for nearly 10 years, early ones do suffer some corrosion. The Focus is galvanised. Ford have ackowledged a limited problem on Mondeo and Focus doors (around 2001) due to a faulty batch of sealer, a just a little corrosion around the inside edge of the doors, claims have been readily honoured despite the warranty being perforation based.
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Although not a massive fan of Ford I'll back Cheddar up on this. My 01Y Mondeo had one rusty inner door bottom on the weld seam. Car was just over two years old. At the time I read of several other "new" Mondeo owners with the same problem on the Top Gear website.
Ford rectified this under warranty. Man at dealer bodyshop said they'd seen plenty of them and verbally said it would be approved. The bodyshop kept the car for a week and resprayed one side of it - a bit excesive for a hidden rust patch the size of a five pence coin...
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The structural corrosion on the KA vehicles is not just limited to early P and R reg examples. It has been discovered on examples as late as 02 plates. This is far from acceptable the jack points on these vehicles can also rot very badly to the point that the corrosion is creeping up into the sill area. The outgoing Fiesta produced up until 2002 had severe corrosion issues in the same areas and also in the area of the front seat mountings many are now failing MOT tests due to these issues.
It is totally correct about Ford underseal the application at the factory is very patchy and not always done correctly. I am not biased I own a Ford and have owned many I buy them for their superb mechanicals but the bodywork is not as good as many competitors.
As an insurance policy and because I have no faith in Ford bodywork I totally re-underseal and wax all the blue oval cars that I purchase.
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>> Rubbish Ford's No bias there then!
I think you find he missed out a comma, as in, "Rubbish, Fords do rust..."
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Nowadays the corrosion resistance of all makes of car is brilliant.
40 or more years ago a large proportion of cars more than a year or two old had large (and I mean large) areas of rust that were visible from quite a distance. Before manufacturers started designing out moisture/mud traps, rust bubbling through the paint and actual holes in the bodywork (anyone remember the rear wings of Vauxhall Crestas?) was a common sight.
Nowadays you have to inspect a car minutely at close quarters to spot any rust at all. And that applies to all makes.
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L\'escargot.
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"Nowadays you have to inspect a car minutely at close quarters to spot any rust at all."
Except:
some Mercedes (silver seems bad)
Any pre 1998 Ford Fiesta (rear arches/filler cap)
Early Mondeos
Some Saxos underneath at rear.
Cavaliers
Astras
Novas
Early Golfs
ditto Polos
mid 19980/early 90s XJ6s (bootlid)
mostly visible to me not mearing my glasses at 20 metres:-(
madf
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Most late 90's Fords tend to go along the spot-welded strip on the sills. KA's Escorts and Mondeos (including mine) seem very prone to this.
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Most late 90's Fords tend to go along the spot-welded strip on the sills.
While I was waiting for 1/2 hour in the Ford dealership today while they taped up the broken repeater indicator on the Fiesta and then proclaimed that it needed a new one (alleluia!), I noticed that the SportKA in there has black paint (underseal I presume) on the sill strip in question, but the normal KAs don't have it! Does anyone know why this is?
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Mike Farrow
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I still think that what people call rust these days is only superficial rust, mainly because expectations are higher. How many cars nowadays are scrapped purely because of rust? That's what used to happen with cars built before about 1980. Before that no design attention was paid to not having moisture/mud traps or to treating body panels before painting, or to injecting wax into body cavities and then sealing the cavity. How many cars do you see nowadays with a hole in a rear wing the diameter of a football as used to happen with Vauxhall Crestas? Or cars with large holes in the outer skin of the doors or sills? How many cars these days have had the sills totally covered on the outside with underseal to disguise the fact that the whole of the outer surface is completely and severely rusted and beyond repainting? And I've not seen a car which has rust originating on the inside surface of a panel and bubbling through the paintwork on the outside surface for yonks. At one time complete wings used to literally fall off because of rust!
Rust? Anyone under about 55 doesn't know the meaning of the word!
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L\'escargot.
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Ahem...
Only 41 years old and well remember rust on Hondas (which had to be resprayed every two or three years) and Alfas.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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"And I've not seen a car which has rust originating on the inside surface of a panel and bubbling through the paintwork on the outside surface for yonks"
hmmm
Looked at any mid 1990s Mercedes?
You describe the rust at pront/rear of front wings perfectly:-)
madf
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"And I've not seen a car which has rust originating on the inside surface of a panel and bubbling through the paintwork on the outside surface for yonks"
I can recall a number of fairly recent Ford vehicles affected by this:
Granada upto 1994: sills rotting through from the inside causing many examples to fail MOT tests and require welding.
Scorpio upto 1998: same problem especially the end of line models, due to poor or faulty materials?
Fiesta MK3/3.5 upto 1997- Fuel cap rotting away from the inside on earlier models causing very serious corrosion. Ford even released a redesigned panel to be welded onto the affected area they were so concerned by the problems; this part is available as a service item. Rear arches are rotting all the way through on many examples. The sills are starting to rust from the inside as well as corrosion starting inside the floorplan and bubbling to the point that the underseal is falling off. Doors edges rotting from the inside out.
Fiesta MK4/5 upto 2002: better protected than the earlier examples however some examples still suffer especially the sills and front seat mounting points.
Escort early 1990s: fuel cap area rotting badly as well as sills corroding internally.
Focus MK1: Corrosion around the wing mirrors causing some to bubble through the paintwork. As well as the famous highlighted issues of the tailgate handle and areas around windows.
KA: Sills, floorplan, door frames all causing problems on a number of examples.
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>> Rubbish Ford's No bias there then!
>>I think you find he missed out a comma, as in, "Rubbish, Fords do rust...">>
I was going to say that you are probably right until I saw his most recent post!
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>>Focus MK1: Corrosion around the wing mirrors causing some to bubble through the paintwork. As well as the famous highlighted issues of the tailgate handle and areas around windows.>>
The Focus suffers a slight issue caused by the mirrors being slightly loose and chafing the paint (a similar issue to the tail gate handle), some Mondeos have had the same problem, this will develop into corrosion if neglected, it is NOT perforation from the inside.
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There are still enough examples of internal corrosion to justify the fact that Ford bodywork is and always has been questionable. The mechanicals mainly are very good but the quality of the panel work is NOT as good as many competitors.
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There are still enough examples of internal corrosion to justify the fact that Ford bodywork is and always has been questionable. The mechanicals mainly are very good but the quality of the panel work is NOT as good as many competitors.
Don't care, so there!
Owning 8 Fords during a period of 40 years has given me enough confidence to be not put off by any number of cynics. Now if you said Vauxhalls and Rovers I'd agree with you.
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L\'escargot.
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Rust? Anyone under about 55 doesn't know the meaning of the word! -- L\'escargot.
Double Ahem. 33 and well remember the 100mm (4" to you!) hole behind the headlight on my Chevette, and the drooping nearside door.
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Double Ahem. 33 and well remember the 100mm (4" to you!) hole behind the headlight on my Chevette, and the drooping nearside door.
I can but refer you to the last sentence of my post of today's date and timed at 12.41 ;-)
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L\'escargot.
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>> Double Ahem. 33 and well remember the 100mm (4" to you!) >> hole behind the headlight on my Chevette, and the drooping nearside >> door. I can but refer you to the last sentence of my post of today's date and timed at 12.41 ;-) -- L\'escargot.
Ok, if it's Fords we're talking (oh it is, just re-read thred header), i also remember my first company car, the evil F reg Fiesta (benefit in kind - what irony!) with the valance about to fall off (in 1993) and several sheds by the name of Escort and Sierra on D and E reg with perforated doors and wings.
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mare,
I think you misunderstood my post. I meant to convey that I could understand you getting rust problems with a Chevette ~ after all, it was a Vauxhall.
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L\'escargot.
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mare, I think you misunderstood my post. I meant to convey that I could understand you getting rust problems with a Chevette ~ after all, it was a Vauxhall. -- L\'escargot.
No misunderstanding. The Shove-it was deficient in that no-one had thought about what would happen to the mud that would fly up from the front wheel and lodge itself in the small bulkhead just behind the headlights. Other than that, it was ok for something designed in the 70's.
My post was merely relating the experience i had with some Fords in the 90's which were not just rusty but awful to drive as well. The Sierra was ok though.
Maybe your post was TiC, but i do get fed up with this football club type loyalty towards car brands, Ford and Vauxhall. People actually seem to be unable to accept that the products sometimes are frankly rubbish, as the MKIV Escort was, as the Fiesta was and as the first Vectra was.
Above all, it wasn't a Rover ;-)
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Above all, it wasn't a Rover ;-)
Say no more! ;-)
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L\'escargot.
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My post was merely relating the experience i had with some Fords in the 90's which were not just rusty but awful to drive as well. The Sierra was ok though. Maybe your post was TiC, but i do get fed up with this football club type loyalty towards car brands, Ford and Vauxhall. People actually seem to be unable to accept that the products sometimes are frankly rubbish, as the MKIV Escort was, as the Fiesta was and as the first Vectra was. Above all, it wasn't a Rover ;-)
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As many in this forum will know, I have commented many times on this (sometimes undeserved) loyalty towards Ford, in particular.
I am also frankly bemused by the bad reputation that some cars have for being rust pots. The Xantia has a reputation for rusting, yet there are many examples of early Xantias around with little or no sign of rust at all. Our own Xantia is only showing a little superficial rust on the rear sills, where there is an overlapping seam with the rear wing. Even stone chips take ages to show any sign of corrosion, if left untreated.
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>> Rust? Anyone under about 55 doesn't know the meaning of the >> word! >> -- >> L\'escargot. >> Double Ahem. 33 and well remember the 100mm (4" to you!) hole behind the headlight on my Chevette, and the drooping nearside door.
And again. 34 and been stuffing holes with aluminium foil and filler for 15 years. I had a Mk1 Fiesta whose rear arches had almost entirely disappeared and the inner wing where the bonnet stay was welded to was entirely non-existant within about 2" of said stay should have been attached. The boot corners were non-existant as well, so I couldn't put small items in the boot, they'd fall out......
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Something to do with mercedes painting their cars on tata's premises in india?
the same paint factory which did the rover city?
the works cars i have heard of for rust - and it includes the latest one's is kia.
my duaghter in laws picanto is already showing lots of under bonnet rust and its only an 05 plate.
still - it was that cheap - they must cut corners somewhere.
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Kia is bad.
Hyundai its sister company are as bad.
Go up to say hyundai/kia model ad check the paintwork - it is abysmal.
Getting a Hyundai dealer to honour an anti corrosion warranty is like getting pigs to fly (I know, we always got out of doing them).
I have had over 6 accents including the latest mark 3. The paintwork is very poor. I had the pleasure of borrowing a sante Fe last weekend - again, lots of rust spots and paintwork bubbling on a 03 plate. Around the engine - especially the components get hit badly for it.
There is no way Hyundai bother galvanizing - the process would cost more than the panels they produce.
But this is acceptable on a cheap budget make. If I paid 12 grand for a brand new ford and found rust within 2 years I would be a lot angrier.
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