I think it is a shame the way the motor manufacturers have the idea that saloons are posh and hatchbacks are 'downmarket'.
The Passat would be a brilliant car if they did it in a hatchback, in fact I wouldn't have bought an estate if a hatchback version of my car was available.
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There's probabbly another factor as well: boot space.
In cars of the Mondeo size, the saloon and hatchback are roughly the same length, so they have similar bootspace.
Drop down a size, and for some reasn the hatchbacks are much shorter than the saloon, and usually have much less luggage space unless you flip down the rear seats.
Look at Focus saloon v hatch, Golf v Bora (or nor Jetta): the hatch is a shorter vehicle.
Quite why the makers decided that midsized hatches have to be sawn off is unclear, but there you have it. AFAICS, the only maker to buck the trend (for a while) was Toyota, which used to sell in the UK both a full-length hatch version of the Toyota and a 3-door sawn-off hatch.
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There's probabbly another factor as well: boot space.
Plus security and saloons are quieter.
I understand that about only one in ten Mondeos are booted versions.
I certainly had to hunt for my Saloon.
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The problem with the Mondeo saloon in Mk2 guise is that it looks utterly daft. It's as if the car was all designed, signed off and ready to build and someone said 'Hang on, we forgot the saloon!'.
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I think the rear lights on the saloon Mondeo Mk2 look particularly unattractive, especially compared with the hatchback versions.
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The problem with the Mondeo saloon in Mk2 guise is that it looks utterly daft. It's as if the car was all designed, signed off and ready to build and someone said 'Hang on, we forgot the saloon!'.
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I cannot agree with that. The hatchback looks odd with its bulbous back window. Looked at side on it gives the impression of it about to burst. I think they just took a line from the roof to the back and said fill that in.
The saloon looks much more complete.
>>I think the rear lights on the saloon Mondeo Mk2 look particularly unattractive.
I agree. They are just as bulbous in the boot so I keep my full spare bulb kit inside the light unit.
>>Plus you get a rear wash/ wipe so you can see out the back, and get rid of bird muck!
I agree with all the comments about the lack of a rear wiper on ANY saloon. Aerodynamics fail when reversing! Some of the earliest Mondeo saloons did have a rear wiper.
>>Like a good European I prefer a saloon, more secure, bigger boot, better drag co-efficient and stiffer body structure. >>They're also cheaper to buy second-hand.
Plus no great big lid to heave up and down that lets all the heat out and lets the noise in.
I do not carry smelly animals, kids plus their kit or fridges/washing machines.
I like a saloon, so after a long search I replace my Sapphire with a Mondeo saloon.
I am happy to be in the minority.
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Its like Saab where they got rid of the hatchback for the new 9-3, to compete better with the A4, 3 series, C class, etc. Because they said the hatchback wasnt taken seriously by business drivers. Its silly in my opinion.
I've got the old shape 9-3 and the load space is massive especially with the seats down. I've had fridge freezers, wardrobes, big TV's and all sorts in mine.
Plus you get a rear wash/ wipe so you can see out the back, and get rid of bird muck!..
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The lack of a rear wiper is utterly bizarre. I spent yesterday driving around in a new 320Cd SE, fantastic car but despite the rear windscreen having about the same angle as that in my Mondeo, there was no wiper.
As such, it was utterly useless around town in the rain.
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IIRC from previous discussion, the Japanese look down on hatchbacks, preferring saloons - madness. I got rid of Lexus 200 for reasons including wanted fwd, hatchback (and it had lousy performance/fuel consumption). Hatchbacks look better, are more practical for carrying and (bless) a rear wiper - reversing in heavy rain with a saloon is dangerous. Love my 5 door A3; pity the A4 isn't a hatch, unless you get an estate version.
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Scots always seem big fans of VW Bora/Jetta rather than the hatch equivalents.
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Hatchbacks are a peculiarly British preference.
Like a good European I prefer a saloon, more secure, bigger boot, better drag co-efficient and stiffer body structure. They're also cheaper to buy second-hand.
UK saloon sales are so low in the volume sector that Vauxhall have dropped saloons from the Nova (Corsa) and Astra ranges and have only kept the Vectra saloon to replace the Omega.
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UK saloon sales are so low in the volume sector that Vauxhall have dropped saloons from the Nova (Corsa) and Astra ranges and have only kept the Vectra saloon to replace the Omega.
In my opinion I thought the Nova saloon and Belmont looked absolutely pants!. Same goes for things like the Pug 306 "Sedan". Were they badly designed, or is it just familiarity with the more common hatch versions that makes them look weird?
I'm not anti-saloon as I've owned 3 in the last 10 years, but I currently prefer the practicality of a hatchback without having to go as far as buying an estate.
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Hatchback every time - having to wait for a washing machine to be delivered is a real pain when your old one gives up the ghost. A visit to the local electrical shop and within 10 minutes the machine is in the back of the car.
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Hatch or estate, Dont want smelly wet lab on my seats thank you
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RF - Da DAA. < changes in phone box > Its TOURVAN man
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Rest of the world seems to rate saloons so it's us in the UK who are peculiar in preferring hatches. Odd thing is that they were an invention of the 1970s - Capri II, Golf, Fiesta etc. Up until that point the best selling cars had all been saloons.
I've owned two saloons - a Renault 21 and Mercedes 190. The Merc boot leaked. I personally think saloons look better than hatches but I stick with hatches due to better availability and resale value.
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Rest of the world seems to rate saloons so it's us in the UK who are peculiar in preferring hatches. Odd thing is that they were an invention of the 1970s - Capri II, Golf, Fiesta etc. Up until that point the best selling cars had all been saloons.
Wasn't Renault responsible for introducing the hatchback concept with the R4, R16, R5 etc? I wonder if they're still as popular in France as they are in the UK...
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Wasn't Renault responsible for introducing the hatchback concept with the R4, R16, R5 etc?
Wasn't there an Austin (A40???) with a hatchback before then? A friend's mother had one in the 1960s.
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>> Wasn't Renault responsible for introducing the hatchback concept with the R4, >> R16, R5 etc? Wasn't there an Austin (A40???) with a hatchback before then? A friend's mother had one in the 1960s.
Correct!
One of the most prolific offenders of the 'saloon is most up market' was BL. The Allegro and Princess were both shaped like hatches, but had saloon boots?
Despite our affection for hatches, the UK was one of the last countries VW stopped selling the Derby/ Polo Classic, which made it until about 1992 (complete with early 90s facelift) before the axe finally fell.
I would never have a saloon. A hatch is just so much more convenient.
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"Wasn't there an Austin (A40???) with a hatchback before then? A friend's mother had one in the 1960s"
My Grandad had one, and OK I'd better admit it, I did too (desperately poor, first year of employment and it was dirt cheap!) but from the mists of time I seem to recall that they had a hatchback shaped back but top half was a window which didn't move and bottom half was the "boot" which hinged at the bottom (like the original mini in fact)
Phil
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"Wasn't there an Austin (A40???) with a hatchback before then? A friend's mother had one in the 1960s"
>>I seem to recall that they had a hatchback shaped back but top half was a window which didn't move and bottom half was the "boot" which hinged at the bottom
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Just like this?
www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/photos-audlem/austin_a40_c...m
www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?innia40f.htm
www.carnote.co.uk/picture.php?id=257
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"Just like this?"
Now that I think about it - they did have the split tailgate - mind, it was over 30 years ago!! And mine was so rusty it had a "Hatch floor" as an added extra!! Not very good in wet weather though most of the water came in through one hole and out through another!!
Phil
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Just had a look at these! They were taken at the Audlem Transport festival, which is near where I live.. just to let you know it's a fun day out! Cheshire/Shropshire border.
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IIRC from previous discussion, the Japanese look down on hatchbacks, preferring saloons - madness. I got rid of Lexus 200 for reasons including wanted fwd, hatchback (and it had lousy performance/fuel consumption).
I had exactly the same view of my IS200 - load of carp !
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steady son.. no Lexus is a load of c---, just disappointing peformance and (for me) a rather bland, unexciting driving experience. Guess I'm saying they've got no soul, no Wow factor - bit like so many politicians! Glad I tried one (for 2 years), but wouldn't go back. Just wish they'd remove me from their mailing list.
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Thing that gets me about the IS200, is that it LOOKS like a Hatch!
Just doesn't make sense! Why design a car to look like a hatch, but not actually make it a hatch!
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quite agree - the fronts of both the old and new models look great, but the rears... oh dear. Entry into the 200 boot was not good for bulkier items, thanks to narrow "height".
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Britain and Germany buy lots of estates but in other countries you don't see many.
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"Now that I think about it - they did have the split tailgate - mind, it was over 30 years ago!!"
The A40 tailgate design would be cutting edge now and would be called a boot chute. I'd always thought of the Austin Maxi as the first real hatchback.
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Renault 16 predates the Maxi by quite a while iirc
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My neighbour has just replaced his Honda Accord hatchback with the saloon version. He said the first drawback he noticed was the lack of a rear wiper - he really missed it. Maybe there's a serious issue here? Has anyone ever been asked by the marketing guys 'do you think it's important to have a rear wiper on a saloon?'. It's probably a stupid assumption that's gone on and on - and will go on until somebody speaks up.
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I've moaned about lack of rear wipers on saloons before in the BR .... asthetics and cost seem to be the real issues.
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The real problem is where do you put the wiper arm spindle through the bodywork? Hatchbacks have metalwork underneath the window which you can put the wiper through. To do that on a saloon would be to restrict the opening even further. Some cars (ala Pug 306 sedan) put the wiper-shaft through the window itself. Most just leave off the wiper.
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Life is complex; it has real and imaginary parts.
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I have always usually had saloons. Never missed a rear wiper too much.
Our house has got a 1999 GS300 and a 2003 Vectra - both saloons, and both with approx. 500 litres of space. Vectra even has fold down seats if needed. Saloons are cheaper to buy, and my opinion do look more elegant than the hatchback versions (and quieter too!).
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I reckon in the eyes of the designer a car is designed as a saloon or a hatch - not both. Not wanting to offend anyone here who may drive a Belmont or a 306 sedan or a 3-series compact but when you start messing around with the original design, that's when it starts looking a bit pants.
So an XJ6 that was designed as a saloon looks elegant. A Dacia Logan, which wasn't, doesn't.
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Life is complex; it has real and imaginary parts.
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None of the saloons I've had - Astra, Cavalier, Senator, Carlton - needed a rear wiper. Rain drops do collect, but they disperse once moving and, importantly, don't contain road grime sucked up at the back like hatchbacks do.
I've seen a few Orions with a rear wiper, the spindle came through the glass, like most modern hatchs and estates.
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None of the saloons I've had - Astra, Cavalier, Senator, Carlton - needed a rear wiper. Rain drops do collect, but they disperse once moving and, importantly, don't contain road grime sucked up at the back like hatchbacks do.
Fine in theory, not in practice.
My wife's 306 Sedan (saloon) has a rear wiper and it is most useful to have when the car has been rained on and you need to reverse out of a tight spot in the dark. Even more so if a powerful streetlight is glaring from behind and making the rear window effectively go opaque. Flick, flick. Job done. Easy reversing. Much more convenient than having to jump out and wipe the rear window by hand.
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There was a large Lancia saloon back in the Fifties that had wipers on both the inside and outside of the rear window.
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I love my Xsara hatchback. Flop down the back seats and my bike fits neatly in the back, along with about 10 boxes and a giant suitcase. Very useful for getting stuff to and from uni. You can't do that with a saloon, though I used to be able to get 2 bales of hay in the boot of my dad's Leganza. (Long story.)
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I can't comment on a 306 saloon but lack of wiper just isn't an issue on a Vauxhall. Perhaps it's because their saloons have marginal better cD figures, ie better airflow.
Since the rest of Europe, where saloons are the majority, doesn't have a problem with the lack of wiper, perhaps the problem is British rain affecting certain cars!
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~the UK was one of the last countries VW stopped selling the Derby/ Polo Classic,
Still being sold, kind of, in the guise of the Skoda Fabia saloon. Saw one today, and a very weird little thing it looks too.
The Fabia estate seems to work quite well though looks-wise.
The new Jetta looks pretty good - more mini-Passat than booted Golf IMHO.
Can´t see us going back to a saloon or a hatch though, now we´ve got used to an estate (Astra). If I´m not carrying much, we take the Barchie!
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Over here in the US they really dislike hatchbacks. Ever seen a Yaris saloon (Echo)? It looks absolutely hideous.
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Won't buy a car without a rear wiper .... try reversing in the dark & wet, it is much easier to see pedestrians, other vehicles etc if the rain has been wiped away; this means much safer reversing. Should be a standard fit on all vehicles - also helps dealing with snow, melted frost, morning dew etc. I once owed a Volvo 360 hatch supplied without a rear wiper. It took months of constant nagging to get the necessary parts shipped over from the factory in Holland and fitted. I cursed every time it rained.
I have just read the HJ review of the new Civic ... amazed they have not included a rear wiper on the hatchback.
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