The point is that to some people a car gets you from a to b. To others it's a big part of their life. I have a classic motor and always look forward to going for drive in it at the weekend and driving to shows, last year I drove to a show in Germany! The amount of my own time and money spent on it is probably fairly considerable and if I sold it i'd never get it all back. Now and again it's been close to getting bashed, some people see an old car and they have to overtake no matter what! I'd be incredibly annoyed if some careless dimwit drove into the back of it - it's hard finding good older motors!
I hope you find something else soon. My car's nothing particularly special and not worth much, maybe £1500, but it's something I look forward to! It's nice to see older motors used regularly.
Cheers
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yes, that seems par for the course these days.
looking4car,
Rant on>
Your username is quite appropriate as this is what I am going to have to do, *quite* difficult as I have to replace a interesting and individual motor that had been maintained to a high standard regardless of expense by the recent enthusiast owner with the, no doubt, trivial *book* price that I will be offered.
The reason I am having to do this is because an idiot drove into the rear of a vehicle parked under a street light which she could have seeen from 1/4 mile away. If Mrs S had been entering or exiting the car or someone had been walking along the pavement the idiot would be facing a worse consequence than having to pay for the damage she has inflicted thouugh her stupidity
Rant off>
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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I sympathise with you having lost your car. I rather like the look of old MR2s myself.
But the facts are
-Your car was on a public highway.
-There was an accident.
-NOBODY was hurt
-The person having the accident was road legal and when breathalysed was negative.
-She was insured.
-The insurance company have accepted responsibility and you are going to get paid.
The rest is speculation
- maybe she's an idiot
- maybe she went to pub to get help/ use phone / use toilet / take drugs /
- she may have been in shock
In my opinion you're entitled to book value of car and our sympathy ,, but not a penny more
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He's entitled to be put back in the position that he was in before the accident, whether that means book value or not is another matter...
Blue
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Ok, claiming from her for storing car in my yard is perhaps a little OTT, however had the car been recovered to a garage she would certainly be facing a charge for this, but I fail to see why I may not claim expenses incurred in seeking out a similar vehicle.
My main point is that *book* price is unlikely to buy me a similar vehicle of equivalent quality and reliability....
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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What a nightmare situation. Sympathies.
But at least you are now free to look for the dynamically superior mark 2 MR2. You should be able to find a grey import for not too much dosh.
And, in staying with Toyota, hopefully continue with the same reliability you´ve enjoyed with the old one.
Thought about a Barchetta?
Regards
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My advice is to put the incident behind you and move on.
Forget about this woman and concentrate your efforts on geting a replacement rather than getting angry.
The insurance is there to compensate you, it can't turn the clock back.
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My advice is to put the incident behind you and move on. Forget about this woman and concentrate your efforts on geting a replacement rather than getting angry. The insurance is there to compensate you, it can't turn the clock back.
>
Wise words, Mrs S. has already taken this attitude, sisters under the skin I suppose, the MR will be carted away in the next few days, meanwhile she has been lent a '05' eurocar in some sort of bland colour for which I need to activate the remote locking to identify it in the supermarket car park.
Look out for my next post enquiring as to the best car to buy for £1.5K....
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Very sorry to hear - I'd be mad, too. It does highlight the paradox that insurance pays you not to look after your car, though. However well (or badly) you treat it, you get book price, and the 'value' you put in the box on the form is completely ignored!
What's the box for? The argument that everyone inflates the figure could be countered by making it part of the premium calculation, so if you expect above average compensation, then you pay slightly more - I'd be happy with that...
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You would not want the police to spend valuable time prosequting someone for such a trivial matter all that paper work and time no no no .seriuosly though I suppose you were lucky one turned up .At weekends and nights many small towns have no police cover at all. The car park to our cycling club house is now the drug dealing centre for the area but no end of calls to plod get them out ,stock answer is "we have nobody in that area and we will get round sometime never"meanwhile kids as young as 12 are getting addicted to crack.
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"we have nobody in that area"
Probably apocryphal, but I love the story of the woman who got the same response when advising the police that her garden shed was being done over. She called back a short while later saying that she had dealt with the intruders using a shotgun. Cue squad cars, sirens, helicopter and Chief Inspector who wanted to know where the bodies were. "I thought you said you'd shot someone", he said.
"And I thought you said you hadn't got anyone available", was the reply...
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The car park to our cycling club house is now the drug dealing centre for the area
I'll say it before someone else does, why do you need a car park?
Sorry Andy, just lightening the tone, thanks for your reply & sentiments
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Do you not have "Agreed Value" cover on this fine car?
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>Do you not have "Agreed Value" cover on this fine car?
More to the point, the insurance company paying is HERS, not yours. So you will be able to get more than book value, as it willbe up to them to put you back in the situation you were in before. Mr FM2R, if temptable onto this thread, will be able to advise.
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We have a classic policy with agreed value on our other old banger, the Rover P4, however the restrictions on these policies ( mileage, social & domestic use only ) made this impractical for the MR which Mrs S. used as an everyday hack
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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Oh goodness me, so much to comment on....
The insurer have confirmed that they will pick up the claim. Therefore whether or not the driver is an idiot, was drunk, is someone's friend, made a mistake, whatever is unhelpful interference, albeit understandable.
Essentially the car was hit, and presumably written off, while legally and reasonably parked.
Therefore as the injured party you are able to claim;
Firstly there is a lot of nonsense spoken about how you are entitled to be put back in the same position as before the accident blah blah claim whatever you like rubbish old cars must be repaired etc. etc. etc. It is more complex than the fact that you can just claim for anything you like.
You are entitled to claim for financial loss and in some circumstances other matters such as pain and suffering which result from such an incident.
Firstly the value of the car - it may or may not be a treasured classic, that is not relevent. It is a vehicle which has a value.
The starting point for such a valuation is normally something like Parkers or Glasses or similar. However, that is simply a starting point. To that one should add or subtract various potentially exceptional (outside the norm) things;
good or bad condition
low or high mileage
complete or incomplete service history
level of availability
and many other similar factors. You would be expected to prove those things with reasons why they affect the value. Photographs, adverts from the autotrader, reports from its normal mechanic, special engineer's reports, receipts for work done etc. etc.
You should claim for the reasonable cost of replacing that vehicle. Where that vehicle cannot be replaced, its a one-off customer for example, then similar vehicles and professional opinions will normally be the basis.
The vehicle must be stored. A normal place would charge for that storage. Since it is stored on your drive then you may charge for that storage - you may not charge the same as secure storage, but you may claim. However, only until it is declared as beyond economic repair and the other insurer has no interest in looking at it (i.e. already has done so). Do not let it run over time or they will just nail you for an unreasonable approach which then will cast a shadow over other parts of your claim.
You may claim for reasonable expenses involved in not having that car. Be very careful here - just because your current car is a Rolls Royce doesn't mean you can hire a Rolls Royce - you would be expected to show why a Ford Ka would not have sufficed - it doesn't have to be as good, merely adequate. Although comfort and facility may be taken into account. Bear in mind that you may not be entitled to a vehicle at all. If you used the damaged car once a fortnight for a 2 mile journey, then they would expect you to take a bus or taxi instead unless you had good reason not to.
That duty to minimise/mitigate your losses is more onerous than most people realise, and if people get picky with insurers, they run the risk of a return favour.
And as for " a substantial sum for the time and expense" - don't be silly. You would have to show that you had somehow lost money with the time you spent on this. Even if you could do that, then you would be paid the estimated average hourly rate you had lost. And given that you could have done it at weekends, evenings etc. then you'll probably get nowhere at all.
And lets be clear, you're not "hammering" the other driver - you are claiming from her insurance company which is quite capable of looking after itself and will only distribute its expenses back out to its premium payers anyway. The size of the claim, unless extreme, will have no effect one way or the other on the other party.
As to where you should send the claim, well in this instance direct to her insurers woudl seem reasonable. Had you uninsured loss recovery, then to your own insurer might have been approriate. Had the other party and insurer decided to be difficult then it might have been risky, but in this case there seems little issue.
Largely looking4car has the right approach/attitude. You'll get the value of the car, a few quid for having it on the drive blocking the way, a replacement car and a bruising experience. And that would not be unreasonable.
'scuse the typos, I'm a bit busy. I'll drop back later and check if I caught everything and to check I got it all right.
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Sorry to hear about the write-off, Steptoe, but glad nobody was hurt.
Just a thought: as the MR2 counts as a classic, could you value you value it according to the going price for similar good-condition cars advertised in the classic car mags? That would be a more accurate reflection of its market value.
- Gromit
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Speaking from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, all you can do is get evidence of the cars true value - i.e. by collecting adverts for similar condition/spec/mileage/age/history cars from Auto Trader. Then you have a reasonable chance of getting the average price back.
You could also claim for a hire car.
All the other stuff is nonsense. Insurance companies are there to replace what you had before with something similar, and provide a replacement vehicle meanwhile.
That's all..
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FM2R, my goodness what a comprehensive and professional reply, proving the benefit of belonging to this forum. As I have now come back down to earth may I run a couple of queries past you...
Mrs S's insurance company, who I suppose ought to be nameless but are based in Bournemouth, have been exemplary, they provided a courtesy car immediately, waived the excess, and assured her that her NCB will be unaffected. Furthermore they have offered to pursue any reasonable claim for uninsured losses on her behalf, so in these circumstances I do not want to pink fluffy dice them off, though I don't mind having a go at the other party's insurers, who incidentally telephoned Mrs S. in order to try to handle the claim themselves ( too late, as Mrs S. had already notified her insurers )
In the heat of the moment Mrs S. arranged recovery to our driveway through a local firm rather than using her breakdown insurance and obviously received a bill for this service, would the insurers reimburse for this or would they take the view she should have used the breakdown company s service?
Coming back to the vexed question of storage charges, the insurance company was made aware that the MR is in our driveway the day after the incident and have promised a visit ( which hasn't yet happened 7 days on ) from an assessor followed by removal of the vehicle. Would it be appropriate to make a *nominal* charge for the inconvenience of not being able to use my garage between these dates?
Thanks to all who suggested collecting adverts to prove the value, I will certainly do this if the valuation is unsatisfactory.
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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You have a number of ways to claim for an instance such as this. (and all the following comments relate to this incident);
1) Your own insurer.
You have a contractual relationship with your own insurer. That covers essentially two areas;
- the first area is that of your legal liability. In short, if you cause damage which is due to your negligence and are legally liable for that damage then your insurer will indemnify. In many areas this is further extended by the road traffic acts, but hte principle remains.
- the second area is not related but offers, for a premium, that shoudl your vehicle be damaged or lost under a given set of circumstances, then you will be appropriately compensated.
Clearly this is the easiest source to go for since with comprehensive cover you will be insured against damage to your vehicle, irrespective of responsibility. Therefore you may most certainly claim via this route.
However, whilst that will ensure repair or compensation for the vehicle, it does not consider the matter of your uninsured losses which may range from your excess, through additional expenses upto damages. WIthout that uninsured loss recovery you may lose your bonus - and there lies the majopr drawback to claiming from your own insurer - the potential loading of premium or loss of NCD.
2) Uninsured loss recovery.
There are various types of policy in this area but all have the same principle - they are designed to pursue the uninsured losses. Sore of them are quite good, many offer little more than admin support. Although even those that simply offer admin support have a value, since they will know who to write to and how to write to them.
These services do not always pursue a case with vigour. Frequently they are not prepared to make quite the stink that you may be prepared to make and so can sometimes fail to conclude a case or obtain a lower offer than perhaps you would have done. However, its sdwings and roundabouts and having this insurance does not preclude you taking yout own additional or alternative steps if you wish.
Nonetheless it can fail and cause you difficulties. THey may not also chase the full extent of the losses you require them to, although there is never any harm in asking. I would recommmend this type of insurance, but use it as an expert users and don't take too much on trust.
3) from the third party insurer...
Can be difficult, can be much faster. Can be impossible, can be much more successful. You have no contractual relationship so you are relying on their duty to cover the legal liabilities of their insured party. Differing companies do this with differing levels of enthusiasm. In addition you are reliant upon thier insured party having told the same version of events that you have told/understood. You would be amazed how infrequently that occurs.
Nonetheless, where the other party seems to have coughed appropriately and their insurer seem compliant, then this can be the best route. Negotiation tends to be more pragmatic and there is unlikely to be any fallout on your NCD.
The downside is that if you feel your own insurer may feel that you have "queered his pitch" and so may be unwilling to pick up the claim at a later date.
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In all you have to make a judgment call - and sometimes you will be wrong. I would nromally say that taking it into your own hands is risky. However, there are times that it is the sensible thing to do. I would say that your instance is one that may be best dealt directly between you and the third party insurer - however I have no way of knowing that to be correct.
The fact that you have notified your insurers does not mean that the other insurance company may not deal with it directly. Typically your own insurer is more than ready to step out of the equation.
In addition protected bonus can shift the equation, but don't forget that you may retain your bonus, but might suffer a loading on the base premium.
At the end of the day you must decide which is approriate for your circumstances and you must take responsibility for that decision. IF you want more specific advice then get it face to face from a local expert who is in possession of all the facts.
On the subject of storage, you have a little issue here. They are nto dealing with the disposal of that vehicle. Since your insurer is dealing wiht the claim, then they will dal with the valuation and disposal of the vehicle. Therefore the other insurer will probably not pay too much attention and you'll have to do a bit of administrative juggling. Essentially uour own insurer will determine when the car may be disposed of but the tp insure wil reimburse the amount.
A nominal storage charge per day would be quite in order. Just be careful of the number of days.
Don't forget that normally dealing wiht your insurer a write-off payment would include them retaining the wreck. Dealing wiht the TPO insurer that may not be the case and they migh tthink you will take the wreck.
Loads of words, but I'm not sure I added much to your understanding. LEt me know if you need me to be mroe specific and I'll try. However, do remember that my casual opinion on a website is not real advice and you would always be better to seek the assistance of a local expert.
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To finally dot the i's and cross the t's on this one??
Liverpool and Victoria were fairly helpful all the way through, they offered £595 backed up by an immediate cheque sent very soon after the MR was collected.
Bearing in mind the advice from the Backroom I replied suitably and politely and was rewarded by another £160; again the cheque was despatched poste-haste, presumably in the hope that the sight of the actual cash would mollify me. In fact, though I could probably squeezed another few pounds out of them I left it at that.
They also offered to recover Mrs S's uninsured losses and she was duly reimbursed her excess and the cost of the recovery to our house. Annoyingly my modest claim for storage/inconvenience was disregarded, just as No FM2R surmised. As I could not quantify a loss I had to accept this even though if we had elected to have the vehicle recovered to our local body shop, they would have, as a business, been able to make a successful claim.
So what did we spend this magnificent sum on? Well the MR had only ever been an impulse buy, a holiday romance sort of purchase, simply because it was suddenly available at the right price! A sensible replacement needed to accommodate Miss S; being a little embarrassed to enquire on here as to the best buy for ¾ K, I posed the question on a newsgroup. The suggestion of a Hyundai Accent Coupe checked out so well on the C by C breakdown that we bought one. The 'private' seller was quite obviously retailing his mates trade-ins, however in this price range I was buying on condition rather than service history and to date no problems have materialised except for Mrs. S's wistful glances at passing convertibles.
Inevitably I suppose, despite guaranteed NCB and a reduction in engine size to 1.3, Mrs. S's insurance premium has increased by 15%.
Thanks once again for all the advice and suggestions from the Backroom
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One mans junk is another mans treasure
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