I have seen first hand how mechanics, and other dealer employees treat customers cars. If you take your car to be serviced at a main dealer and it is anything other than a bog standard 1.6, expect it to get a thrashing.
I agree with Neil in some respects that it would be benificial to go in here wih a good attitude, but also a firm attitude to extract the highest possible recompense.
Also Neil, to even hint that this car was involved in a crash for any reason other than it being thrashed to within an inch of its life is naive in the extreme.
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to even hint that this car was involved in a crash for any reason other than it being thrashed to within an inch of its life is naive in the extreme.
Not entirely sure why this is an issue...
The only things that are relevant are...
1) The car was left at a dealer for a service
2) The car was nivolved in an accident
3) The dealer is repairing the car
4) The dealer has made a offer of compensation
What has dealers staff thrashing the car got anything to do with anything?
:)JaB
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What has dealers staff thrashing the car got anything to do with anything?
Potentially quite a lot actually! It's called duty of care - the dealer is vicarously liable for the actions of their employees.
Update - dealer is refusing to budge on offer of compensation, won't allow owner to see car for photos to be taken, won't say where accident actually happened, has changed story about what happened completely, but it is still different to what third party and witness are saying!
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The car does not belong to the dealer so if they refuse access to it then call the police.
Surely its as simple as that!
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>>Update - dealer is refusing to budge on offer of compensation, won't allow owner to see car for photos to be taken, won't say where accident actually happened, has changed story about what happened completely, but it is still different to what third party and witness are saying!
I don't like the sound of any of that at all. As mentioned, surely you must be allowed access to your own car?! time to call in the solicitors perhaps?
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Yes. You have left your car with the dealer and they are refusing to return it and refusing to let you see it. That's theft.
They have also lied about the extent of the damage, lied about the involvement of a third party and failed to disclose all the details of an accident that they had in your car. When the third party noted down the details they noted down your registration number. What if criminal charges are brought - the police are going to come to you and you won't have any answers for them.
This is shocking behaviour, regardless of how the accident happened and whether or not they were being careful or negligent. They've broken your car and it's their duty to be as helpful as possible in getting it sorted. Sounds like they're just trying to cover it up.
----
Life is complex; it has real and imaginary parts.
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If it was me I'd be down in the local nick finding out whether criminal charges are going to be bought.
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But I thought Honda was a reputable car manufacturer who would appoint like-minded dealers ?
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If a 3rd party is making a claim, and this car's reg. nr is recorded then it could affect the owner's insurance history. It might be worthwhile talking to the owner's insurance co to clarify any position and get any paperwork sorted now.
Consider also having the car professionally checked when it's returned - it may be possible to claim the cost of this back from the garage through the small claims court. Certainly I would want some sort of warranty (in writing) regarding the bodywork repairs.
I would also trade the car ASAP.
I imagine that this could happen with any dealer.
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A well written letter to Honda's head office in the UK might work wonders as well.
I remember some time back a thread about a Civic Type R that siezed after only a few miles. The dealer refused to touch it claiming that the owner never put any oil in!
A quick correspondence with the head office and a brand new Type R was delivered. I believe that the franchise also lost their Honda dealership status.
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A well written letter to Honda's head office in the UK might work wonders as well.
I would advise trying to find out the name of the parent company of the Dealership and contacting them.
The control that distributors (like Honda UK) can have over their Dealerships is limited by the terms of the franchise agreement and a single incident is unlikely to result in a franchise being withdrawn. They may not be prepared to get involved in this case.
However, a Dealership and in particular a Dealer Principal will have to answer to his employers at the parent company.
This information is not always easily obtainable and due to naming and shaming rules you can't post the name of the dealership on the board but you may find the details on invoices or headed paper from the dealership.
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> A well written letter to Honda's head office in the UK might work wonders as well.
I'd second that. The letter needs to be utterly accurate, neutral in tone - eg I'm sure you will be as concerned as I am about the actions of XX Ltd. My faith in your brand is now shaken, and I am certain this is something you will want to look into., ...
Make sure it's addressed in person to the headish honcho, eg Sales Director, Honda UK (phone up switchboard and ask for name) and I expect you'll get a stunning reaction. Save the Watchdog threats for later.
Did the same when I was being messed around by a subsidiary of a major plc, got a very good, professional response, inc. a call from the MD of the company in apology.
I'd actually break off completely from contact with the dealer until he hears from Honda UK. The rocket he'll get will be far more painfull than anything you can deliver.
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It's also debatable if the car has to be repaired by the dealer in question (or a bodyshop he chooses).
I'd argue that the car's owner has the right to choose any authorised repairer and have the bill paid by the dealership. That might be more expensive for the dealership as they won't be getting trade/volume rates!
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three years ago,my best friends three week old X-trail developed an oil leak.Whilst at the Nissan dealership the vehicle was crashed while being road tested.The damage was front end.The vehicle was replaced for an identical new one,with £1800 of extras.Now thats what i call service.
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>The vehicle was replaced for an identical new one,with £1800 of extras.Now thats what i call service.
The irony is that such a high level of service dedication in what was potentially a bad customer experience has been turned into a really good one. The friend (and his/her friends) will have told this story to over a hundred people on average, and will ensure that this Nissan dealer gets more business as a result.
Contrast that with the Honda dealer, who even now is losing business as a result of his "difficulties" with the truth.
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I think its fair to say that no-one would pay the market rate for a car that they know has been in an accident. (In coming years the paint may fade at different rates, rust may appear etc etc. Plus, unless the car is fully stripped down and repainted from bare metal you get the inevitable overspray onto suspension etc.)
How much this is depends on the age of the car at resale I suppose.
I dont think a court would award a value for a loss that has yet to be realised. Which leaves you with the option of negotiating with the dealer, or going to court once the actual loss has been realised.
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DD is right that this thread got a bit heated but I think heat is called for. Dealership has proved it cannot be trusted on more than one occasion so why trust it now?
Call Honda UK now and speak to as high up a person as you can get on the phone.
Get a lawyer. Don't worry about the cost as the dealer will pay as part of the settlement (oh yes they will).
Contact local paper and get them to call dealership and Honda UK.
GO NUCLEAR!
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My 6 month old Golf GTI got damaged when it was in being serviced at VW. The rear wheel arch was caught on the pillar by the entrance to the service bay and the paint was badly scratched.
When I went to collect the car, nobody mentioned it to me. It was only when I went to get in it that I noticed it. I walked straight back into the dealership and asked what had happened, to which they replied "oh, the damage must have been there before... wasn't our fault.. we didn't do it... etc etc".
I then walked round the back of the dealership where the service bay is and found the service manager and one of the mechanics with a bucket of soapy water and a sponge trying to remove the paint scrape from the pillar.
Eventually they admitted it was their fault (after I had taken a photograph of them trying to hide the evidence) and they took the car in for repair. Now, considering this was a 6 month old £18000 car, and the damage was only a minor paint scrape (no dents), the repair was absolutely appalling. They had resprayed the whole rear quarter of the car (it was a 3 door), but hadn't removed the glass or anything, so you could see the paint line where they had masked up.
I was absolutely fuming. In the end it became more hassle than it was worth so I left the matter in the hands of the lease company (it was a company car), who said it wasn't worth their time pursuing it. I figured if they weren't bothered about the impact to the cars value then why should I be!
It went back to the lease company at 3 years old, and by that time the re-sprayed panel had faded to a different shade and had millions of tiny swirls in it where the paint had scratched when washing it as it was softer than the factory paint. They went mental about it until I reminded them that they had said it wasn't worth pursuing it! I believe it sold for a ridiculously low price at auction.
So my recommendation is to remove the car from the dealership immediately, take it somewhere else for repair and get a solicitor on the case pronto. Hire an equivalent car (might be difficult given it's a Type-R though) and keep receipts. The dealer has no alternative but to cough up for the repair costs, out of pocket expenses plus your solicitor should pursue compensation for inconvenience and loss of value.
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If it was me I would want to remove the car from the delaers ASAP as I suspect that they wont let you see it becuase they are carrying out the repair.
Much as I sympathise with you, I am not sure how much of a case you will have given that the dealer has agreed to repaire the vehicle, provide a courtey car, and made a good will gesture
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I think you're heading for solicitor territory here, whether it's that of finance company (if there is an interest in the car), insurance company or your friend's own.
They should be sending recorded delivery letters to the dealer principal, the chief executive/managing director of the dealer's parent company, RMIF,and Honda UK - after all, their reputation is at risk here as well as that of the dealer.
If your friend is of a mind to, try a motoring mag like What Car?, or the motoring/personal finance section of papers like Mail, Telegraph etc.
This whole episode is thoroughly shabby, but I've seen so many consumer businesses try this tack. There is a legal solution, but it really shouldn't come to this.
Bending a customer's car, lying about it, then refusing to co-operate. What an advert for the trade...
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Print off this thread and send it to Honda's press office. I dare say they've heard of HJ!
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Hmmm,
Friend of mine once left his Golf GTI for service at his local VW dealer, whilst at work he looked out of his window and thought 'I'm sure thats my car parked outside'. So he decided to check if it was and hey presto it was.
Upon questioning the young guy in the passenger seat (mechanic) where the driver of the car was, the young passengers reply was 'What is it to you' he soon changed wiped the smile of off his face when my friend told him that the car he was in was his. The young passenger then explained that they were on a test drive, when my friend asked where the driver was, he was told in there (passenger pointing to shop next to where they where parked.
Nothing wrong with that you may ask..........................
It is when you leave your car at a main dealer and a mechanic is seen buying parts from the local motor factors ?????
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Have you considered that the fact that the dealer won't let you see the car is because it is not there but as stated earlier may already at a local bodyshop being repaired, he may be hoping if you see your car repaired and looking 'perfect' you may give up and go away. why not the boys in blue involved by saying you think the dealer has eeffectively 'stolen' your car and that you need to get some personal item from it, if they come to the dealership it might force them to admit if the car is not there or let you see it. As also said earlier this one incident wounld not cause the dealership to lose it's franchise, but, you do not know how many other complaints Honda may have already received, this may just br the last straw, so yes write to them stating how you have been treated, you never know.
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Any news on this? Love to find out how it pans out.
K
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A few years ago almost exactly the same thing happened to my uncle at a Volvo dealer. The dealer actually delivered a courtesy car in an attempt to conceal the "minor damage" which they would repair. My uncle went to the dealership to get some things he needed from the car and found that the entire front end was very badly damaged. He told the dealer principal very clearly that he did not want the car back and wanted a replacement car of the same spec, age and approxiamate mileage. They eventually reached a deal where he took a slightly newer, higher spec car and paid the difference in value.
I suggest your friend demands the same. If she belongs to any of the motoring organisations (AA, RAC, etc) she should be able to obtain free legal advice.
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Ooops.
Feel like dropping your Lotus off for a valet?
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4484212.stm (cut and paste)
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"The car was being spruced up for a buyer, but the sale had now fallen through, he said."
oooo I wonder why
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RF - Da DAA. < changes in phone box > Its TOURVAN man
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"A 30-year-old man has been reported for dangerous driving, and investigations are taking place into an alleged offence of unlawful vehicle taking.
The owner of the Master Valet firm declined to comment about the accident."
So guess what the next thing to happen is? I'll wager they're not insured to drive customer's vehicles and the firm is put into administration.
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Update - the dealer has dropped all charges for the service (£540) and will replace the new tyres and brakes fitted as part of this service and the car is being fixed.
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What's your colleague's thoughts on that?
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She had taken legal advice and like has been said on here the garage are only responsible for repairing the car. Free service was a goodwill gesture which she has accepted.
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I would advise her to get the repair checked independently. Probably by another Honda dealer or automotive engineer.
Your colleague needs to know that the car is as it was when she left it with the dealer for that service. I've seen a few short cuts taken when dealers have profit margins to consider, especially as I suspect that they would have had to repair this at their own cost and not via insurance.
She would also be well advised to get a written statement as to what was the damage was and what repairs were carried out. She can then check this out with another specialist.
Hugo
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Well, who'd have thought it, eh? ;-)
Neil
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The worst thing I've ever seen done was when the Honda garage that I worked at repaired a damaged part-exchange (also a Typre-R) that had taken a knock to the rear, the bumper did a fair job of concealing a bent impact bar across the back, instead of fixing the bar they just put a new bumper on...
Blue
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This sounds absolutely appalling. I have heard so many nightmare stories concerning main dealers that I have personally used independent workshops for the last 10 years or so.
Unfortunately the law always seems pretty useless when applied to the car trade. If you seek legal advice the only winner is the solicitor who usually charges you several hundred quid to tell you that you dont have a leg to stand on!
Personally I would bring in the local press - while some members of the local press are likely to be reluctant to slag of a main dealer as they rely on them for advertising revenue I am sure there must be a local paper (that has little or no car advertising) that would rate this story newsworthy enough for a front page article.
You could even send a friend down to the dealership posing as an intrepid reporter. A main dealer wouldnt risk his name a few grand. I think that a generous trade in and a very generous cost price new car should be on offer. The dealer should take the hit in the value of the used car, not the blameless owner! Besides, its unlikely the dealer will point out the car has previously been in a smash when selling it on so he wont lose out anyway!
The facts of the matter are the car was taken in at considerable cost to maintain its full Honda history, not to have its value reduced by several thousand! Accidents happen of course but the very fact it has been covered up surely shows a sense of guilt - frankly it would be against all odds that a genuine accident occured in a very brief sensibly driven test run of 5 miles or so! I have driven many 200,000 or so miles without an accident.
This seems a disturbingly frequent occurance, as a Lotus was written off this week. If you have the time, I'd agree with the guy who said he would accompany the mechanic and the car when it is in the dealer's hands.
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People need to realise main dealers are nothing special just because they have a brand name, flash looking showroom, and that they have managed to convince a car maker they are fit to sell / repair / advertise their brand name, doesn't make them many tiers above the many independents. Most main dealers don't do body repairs anyway, but simply contract it out to the small independent paint shops on industrial estates. Of course you'd be charged main dealer prices even if they don't do it themselves.
If it were me I'd not be interested in anything they offered now due to the deceit, lies and arrogance the dealer had shown in the beginning. I'd be approaching Honda direct about this.
Sending Honda a factually worded account of exactly what has happened, including your disgust at being treated this way, but in a polite & forceful way, including a printout of this thread would be my next move. Regardless of anything else I'd never want that car back, or to use that dealership again, and that may make owning a Honda inconvenient from now on.
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You could even send a friend down to the dealership posing as an intrepid reporter. A main dealer wouldnt risk his name a few grand. I think that a generous trade in and a very generous cost price new car should be on offer. The dealer should take the hit in the value of the used car, not the blameless owner!
I wish I could remember the exact figures but I can't, what I can remember is that getting a Honda at cost price would mean a discount of well below 10%, not really all that fantastic.
If I rember rightly wer had about £700 profit to play with on a brand new Type-R sale...
Blue
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Sorry to see that in Saturday's Telegraph HJ is dismissive of what could be yet another case of someone's cherished high performance car being blatted around the countryside for fun by a fitter.
Apparently, you're known in the trade as a 'screamer' if you complain when they've had a bit of unauthorised fun with the sort of motor they don't own themselves for whatever reason - and can't even be bothered to return it clean.
Surely it isn't unfair to expect one's personal property to be treated with respect by the people being paid to care for it?
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Hi Blue,
Under 10% in a new Honda - but does that include the manufacturer rebate for hitting a certain volume?
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Probably not to be honest mate, but seeing as there's no guarantee that you will hit any given volume until you've actually hit it (and even sometimes it's still not certain after you;ve hit it due to cancellations) I don't think it's fair to take manufacturer bonuses into account.
Bottom line is, as far as dealer is concerned, one new unit has less than 10% in it, from what I remember when I bought my Fiesta, it had about 7% of list price in it, the only times that this can be made bigger is if the manufacturer have a specific promotion on that gives extra incentive to the dealer, or indeed if the customer is taking finance. If the customer take the finance AND the dealer is in a very generous mood, they can use the finance commission to reduce the cost of the car further (I've done it once, maybe twice)
I'm quite drunk at the moment so will probably read this again soon tocheck that I haven't posted total twoddle! :-)
Blue
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It's always interesting to see how the "trade" view the other members of their trade.
Of course this closing ranks thing is not knew.. doctors do it, Lawyers do it. In fact everyone does it.
HJ may deny this but I doubt he'd have been so dismissive if it had been his car treated that way.
It's fair enough not wanting to chase around after the guy who had written in but the rest of it, that's just "closing of ranks"
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