re: the Head Gasket questions and answers posed earlier today!
just spoke to the mechanic who was looking at the peugeot today. Apparantly he says its a lost cause, doesn' want to get involved becasue the motor is only running on two cylinders, is burning diesel oil (smoky exhaust) and the heater is pushing humid water into the car causing moisture on the windows internally!!!
all very odd for a car that goes relatively well.
he has not carried out a compression test so does not know about the Head Gasket, which is all that i really wanted to get clarified. What on earth could be the problem, is the engine a heap of junk, why did the initial mechanic who saw the car for its MOT in December say i needed a Head gasket change? Many question, no firm answers. Do i need a private detective?
martin
the symptoms are:
-Radiator leaking into the car (some how)
-Juddering and poor performance, poor idle
-white or bluish smoke when started, goes eventually
-no hot air, only cold, heater seems to work fine!!!! (not confirmed)
-sporadic accelleration when foot down
-ok performance on motorway once warm
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Martin
I'm, no mechanic, but I have owned XUD engines for quite a few years. How's this for a scenario? You have a leaky haeater matrix, which explains the moisture in the car. This has caused a coolant loss, and an airlock somewhere in the engine. This in turn has caused parts of the engine to overheat and the head gasket to fail, maybe around two cylinders, causing misfires and water in the exhaust. Get it compression tested (the cylinders and the cooling/heater system) then you'll know.
These things are susceptible to head gasket failure after coolant loss. Get it checked before you kill it altogether.
Chris
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Don't know about a private detective, but you sure need a mechanic who can do some proper, logical, fault investigation.
'Running on two cylinders' could be head gasket blown betwen a pair of cylinders, but it seems that there's more than that wrong.
You are not going to sort this out by guesswork - it needs proper investigation.
Regards
John
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Martin,
Sorry I'm not in a location to actually help. You are going to have to find and trust one person who will see this throught to its conclusion. But remember what I said about the car needing to be worth it to you.
The hard facts are your car has a trade value of about £200, running OK with an MOT. This is why people (like myself if you like) are wary of doing any work because the minimum you'll get away with is perhaps the same or up to double the vehicles worth. If they find extra problems then it is likely you will tell them to forget it. But by then you may owe them £100 in stripping costs and the vehicle would be worth nothing, it might cost £50 to get it scrapped.
And thinking back to the exchange engine fitted previously. If that was a couple of years ago the cost of a worthwhile unit would be £1500 plus fitting yet even then the trade value of the car would have been less than £1000. So you can bet they never actually fitted a top quality exchange. It could have been s/hand or a cheaply done one with the minimum possible spent. In which case the 20,000mls it has done since fitting is about what you would expect.
Since I last posted on this I've been chatting to a chap who regularly buys cars of this sort of age at the salvage (not always crashed) auctions for £20 and sells them on after a few hours work. At the other end of the scale he was saying some good Fiesta Diesels around 1996/7 were going for under £1000 recently.
You have to keep these low values in mind when thinking about repairs.
I think HJ says anything under £1000 should be regarded as scrap and to get shot at the first sign of trouble.
David
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Consider this , consult the Haynes manual regarding the complexity of a head gasket change , price up the parts for a DIY. If financially practical change it or get a mate to help you. Be prepared for the repair to be ineffective and the cost of repairs to be wrote off. With the heater problem remove the two pipes (assuming two not sure) and connect them together, this will bypass the heater which does not work anyway so you're no worse of , ensure water is topped up and no air locks are present ( a problem on some cars). The only way to run a car on a low budget is to get your hands dirty or know a friend who will.
At the end of the day the car is not worth a deal , if the time and trouble is not worth it scrap the car , or partexchange?
Hope this may have helped to make your mind up and makes sense
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My heater matrix on my 405 XUD failed in the early summer.
One 3-inch offcut of 22mm copper pipe (as used in household water feed/vent pipes), plus two good jubilee clips isolated it in around twenty minutes.
Then about a day to swap the matrix as the weather got colder (involves moving almost the whole dash according to Haynes).
I hang on to my decaying 405 (238,000 miles) due to its sheer economy on fuel and epic load carrying capacity. Plus it can be fixed fairly easily. No ECUs/fancy expensive bits to go wrong. And I know it's history.
However... Martin, maybe you need to look at an alternative, as the 309 does not have the 405's loadability. There are a lot more motors that will do the same job for less hassle.
rg
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we keep fixing our citroen BX, because we have spent £100s on it, and if we sell it and buy another car, it might be in worse condition than the BX, the current problem is - a clicking when trying to start the car (starter motor), the rear wheel bearings need doing, and the car has black smoke upon starting, it needs to be driven around the back streets before going on the main road because it cuts out, and the front suspension is starting to get bumpy.
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Well Ladas you have a choice with the BX.
Either take it back to the Citroen dealers who you say always service it, take it to the independent garage who are good with Citroens that you tell us always do it...or of course you could take it to the garage where you work.
To save any grief I've excluded taking it to the two garages you claimed to own because you were good enough to admit those were virtually a dream.
David
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the citroen dealer does the services, so that we have a full citroen service history, and that the book is fully stamped. any major work is done by the independent garage because of the price being cheaper, plus i have already said that the garage that i work for isnt real, i am only on a course at gateshead college.
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Rob,
To me the comment "I know it's history" radically changes the ground rules for keeping these older, so called worthless, cars going. If you know the vehicle both in terms of type weaknesses and all the jobs that have been done then there is a good argument for spending significant sums to keep it on the road. We keep an 11 year old BX estate whose sole vice is shipping water going on that basis. Next service at 144k will include both cambelt and LHM change. It sails through the Mot, and returns 40 to the gallon on local runs.
Against that I can shove stuff in it that would wreck the Xantia's delicate boot and colour keyed bumpers, if it gets scratched so what. The roof rack takes 100kg (or 4 bikes without removing pedals and being inch picky over he order of loading and positioning). It will still cruise at 85 for hours as well.
All out of warranty cars are a gamble, you just need to know the rules in your own casino.
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its like the BX that my mam has, the independent garage has said that we should sell it/scrap it, but we know the history of it, and its had alot of stuff done recently (rear spheres, alternator, ignition coil, battery, HT leads, oil change, air filter, CV boots, plus a lot of other items i cant remember doing.
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Yep,
I could buy a Xanta/Omega for £5K++ next week and spend hundreds on a man with a laptop and clean hands who tells me that some fancy black box has died, it will cost £800.00, and is on a ten-week back-order from "central logistics solutions facility" at Brierley Hill..
(O.K. David W....so Xantias don't break..)
BTW, '94 Toyota Camry estate 7-seat - any good? Fully history 122K and going for around a grand..
rg
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Simon hit the nail on the head. Knowing a car's history changes the rules on whether or not you fix it. The 309 is a civilized, reliable, modern drive (as long as you have power steering), so spending even as much as 700 quid or so in a year to keep it going is cheap, comfortable motoring compared with a new car. The actual sale value is not an issue in this case, if it ever really is. It's either fix it, or scrap it if you don't want to spend the money. Buying a banger-level replacement just adds the risk of the same thing happening again next week.
Chris
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the mechanic that we use keep saying 'just scrap the BX, and get a decent newer car, about 1994 - 1996'. but even though its newer, it doesnt mean that its going to go for a few years, plus i dont know how much he thinks we have, but we were lucky to afford the last service.
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This thread highlights a quandry many of us have. In my case SHMBO's XR3i is 12 year old with coming up to 50,000 on the clock. Full garage service every year at MOT Time and oil/filter change (self) every 6 months between. Waxoil underneath every year.
Costs me about £300 approx. a year in all maintainance and currently running like a new car.
Was going to change for something more modern but current gizmos etc on modern stuff has put me off. I want a simple straight forward vehicle. Also that I would have to lay out a substantial sum for something newer that would be better earning interest. To buy in I reckon I would be losing £500 a year after intitial purchase in depreciation alone on the newer model plus loss of interest so I would be losing out substantially.Even with a hefty bill of £1000 I would probably go for a repair because I know the car and how it has been cared for.
Current value of the Ford means that I must now either run it into the ground (cruel) or try and go and make it a classic.
Very difficult decision to make.
DVD
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Too right!
I drive an ageing 414i. Cost me 700 in '99. I've done over 15k in it at low financial cost. I don't need to fully comp insure it. It hasn't got a cat to fail. I can park the car in town at nigt without a thought. (This is a serious advantage - many mates can't do this in their brand new soft tops.). I can use it in Rallys and carry wet salty windsurfing kit. I thrash it everywhere and can easily hold 95 on the motorway for hours on end. (Between 4-5k rpm) I've actually got a photo of the clocks at 110.
A few months ago I was told the big end was on it's way out. Guess what? It's covered nearly 2k since!
A bloke ran into the back of me two weeks ago. I laughed!
Viva bangers! When this one dies I'm getting one the same. (I fact I'll have to 'cos I spent 50 quid on roof bars)
The best part of all is that in the time I've owed my last two bangers I've saved the price of a new Mondeo!
If I'd bought a new mondeo 6 years ago I'd get about 2500 for it!
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This is the real crux - do you buy a car to use it for things you want to do without too many worries about cosmetic & theft problems - or to keep it clean, stamped-up and safe and hope not lose too much money on the next trade-in (some hope, unless you keep an eagle eye on very many factors).
I spend money on keeping an older car with a modicum of service/repair history and character going (c/o the good old Citroen BX) and will continue to do so while this gives me what I want - and not what ad-land or finance-land says I want. And yes - I've made mistakes along the way in doing this (it's called learning).
And btw, I'd agree with the diagnosis of possible heater matrix failure followed by airlock & possible head failure on the 309 - now confirm it. It's got to be reliable diagnosis followed by DIY or a work by a reliable mechanic, should you know such a person. Expensive repair could be justified if the rest of the car's known and in good nick - or you need to get use from the car as a recent purchase + all other factors look good. Consider costs against depreciation + any finance costs on a replacement car.
Long live utility!
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"[is it best to] keep it clean, stamped-up and safe and hope not lose too much money on the next trade-in"
I tried that method. Lost over 2 grand + serciving + fuly comp insurance. Couldn't thrash the car, coouldn't park it overnight on boozy nights out. WHen my girlfriend (at the time) opened the door into a wall I nearly cried. It was constant stress.
The Rover's a joy to own.
There is a third way. Buy a new car, keep it for 12-13 years and do all servicing yourself. 6k for a pug 106 over 13 years is prolly less than you'd spend on a banger all in and one owner cars mysteriously seem to be pretty reliable throughout their life.
Of course you've blown the price of a house deposit on day 1.
Bangernomics for me!
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