Hi!
Can anyone advise on whether it is worth my while getting the Gasket changed on my 1993 309 GLD Peugeot? It is not too serious now, but shows signs symptomatic of gasket failure. The engine is reconditioned and i have done 20,000 since then, the car only has 110,000 in total. Of course a recon engine should not be failing after 20,000 but it was the previous owner who had the work done at her local Peugeot specialist garage, and as the warranty has expired there is little i can do. Basically my garage estimate £300 to £450 for the job depending on level of destruction. The car has never over-heated and i do not currently use it. What about doing the job myself? I am very amatuerish in this respect however!
thanks
martin
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Martin,
Difficult call this one. If it came to the worse case and the head was found to be u/s then an exchange one plus new timing belt etc would be virtually the value of the car if a garage did it for you.
I have exactly the same dilemma with a '93 Fiesta Diesel at present after a failed timing belt.
Having said that you might be very lucky and get away with just a new head gasket and a set of head bolts for the minimum cost.
And unless you take it apart you'll never know which situation you have.
Do bear in mind something else may have caused the gasket failure and this will need resolving or it will happen again. Blocked radiator, failed water pump or even something as daft as a sticking thermostat.
A great deal depends on how you value the car.
Good luck.
David
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David W wrote:
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> A great deal depends on how you value the car.
>
A very valid point, too many people give the advice of scrapping the car when a repair costs the same as the market value of the car. I bought the other half a 89 polo for buttons from a mate, filling the petrol tank doubles the value of the car! but it has been well looked after and is soo easy to work on I *almost* enjoy MOT time. I suppose I'm just a big softie too!
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My last car was a 309 diesel and I valued it highly; economical, reliable and comfortable. I only changed it because we acquired 2 dogs.
What David says about checking the cooling system is good advice, the only trouble I had with mine was a radiator leak, I have a suspicion that the water flow through the botom of the radiator can be slow and this leads to sludge build-up.
If I was happy with the car, my tendency would be to go for a repair, but I am an old softie at heart.
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Thanks for the responses!
I might add that the coolant does not have oil mixed with it and there is little corrosion of the head itself. My garage say that skimming will sort the problem out! I still have to pay some £400 for the job, is there anyway of getting down these labour charges, as the part itself only cost £30?
thanks
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Thanks for the responses!
I might add that the coolant does not have oil mixed with it and there is little corrosion of the head itself. My garage say that skimming will sort the problem out! I still have to pay some £400 for the job, is there anyway of getting down these labour charges, as the part itself only cost £30?
thanks
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Martin,
The parts costs should be more than that. A head gasket set might be £40, set of new headbolts £25, timing belt £20, belt tensioner (if poor) £40, fresh coolant and oil £25, water pump if any signs of stiffness/leakage £45.
Don't pay £400 and get half a job.
Also if this head is part of a previously overhauled engine and has been skimmed before it may not be suitable for re-skimming.
David.
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good point
if i am going to get it done, i should pay for a good job. These recon engines can be real buggers! I hope that with this job i can get another few years out of the engine, the rest of the car is in such good shape that it would be foolish to just ditch it!
How long should a gasket last from new?
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Martin
The head corrosion you can see externally won't be the problem - it's the corrosion of the internal waterways that's potentially the problem, and you won't see that 'till the head's off. You won't necessarily see coolant in the oil - it depends where the gasket has failed (eg cylinder to cylinder failure won't show in the oil or coolant, but the car will run appalingly)
One wonders if the job was done properly last time ie skim of the head, new head bolts etc as it should last far more than 20 thousand miles. Plus DW is right - while it's dismantled get the other jobs done as they will add nothing to the labour bill, and will give peace of mind and avoid having both the parts and labour bill for doing them later. Get a new alternator drive belt fitted as well - a well spent £5.
Regards
John
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This happened to my BX diesel and we ummed and ahhed about it. It wasn't showing bad symptoms and hadn't overheated. Cause was a very slight leak in one of the water pipes - so slight I only spotted it when I went around checking them all and found a bit of dried antifreeze underneath it.
We had it done, and 10K miles later the car's been no more bother (tiny hole in the exhaust notwithstanding), so good value motoring I think. I had the head skimmed and everything changed at the same time - belt, tensioner, etc. If you catch it before it blows too badly and chucks all the water out on the motorway, you've a better chance of getting away with it. Good luck, and don't dither too long.
Chris
P.S. I had a 309GRD. If it hadn't been a seaside car and therefore a bit rusty in some crucial places I'd still have it - and I would have had the gasket done, too.
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Martin,
Yep back to first principles of diagnosis. Why do you think the head/gasket is faulty?
Also I think you mentioned how long they should last....150 - 200,000 miles I guess.
David
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David
Just to be clear - not sure if I was - the gasket had definitely gone on the BX. It was blowing water/gases out of the reservoir. The leak had created an airlock I guess, with predictable results. I found the leak after the gasket had been done, but only because I decided to give the car a proper looking over to protect my "investment".
Chris
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Some good advice, thanks!
The symptoms are:
-Loss of power in 2nd 3rd gears, ok on motorway.
-Juddering and general irratic motor, poor idle
-White and blueish smoke when started, does go after some time
-poor starting, used to begin first time
-no hot air coming through, there used to be a little, but now all cold, heater works fine
-engine not too hot, but up on 6 months ago
the thing has not actually blown and i have not been driving the car at all recently. Still runs fine but for above problems. Only done 110,000 in total and this recon engine which was fitted at 95,000 so it was clearly a s***t engine!!!
Just need to find a trust worthy garage to do a sound job! Any ideas?
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You don't say how much coolant you are using. Also are you 100% sure that the radiator is not leaking, they fall apart as soon as you look at them. The poor running may be simply down to neglect, filthy oil and filters, fouled injectors etc. Poor starting may be failed glowplugs. You also say there is no warm air coming through then say the heater is OK?!?. My advice is get a PROPER diagnosis done. It has got to be worth a trip to see David W!
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I am sure the radiator is not leaking and have had the oil and filter changed just 3000m ago. But you are right, i do need to have a full diagnostics to get this sorted.
I can't think of any more symptoms...
where is David W?
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I'm no techie, but it doesn't sound like gasket to me, more like fuel.
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Martin,
Sounds like everything else before you even look at the head gasket. However the cold heater could be an airlock and driving it like that risks doing the head.
I'm in a secret location, broadly Cambridgeshire Fens.
David
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Thanks
Anyone who knows Peugeot engins well and can do this job based in the Kent region or even south London, i'd be happy to get it sorted once and for all.
If you are in Canterbury then even better????
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Martin
I lived in Faversham for a few years, and used a garage there that was very good with our 309D. I can't remember the name, but it was part of the service station on Stone Street, if that's any good to you. They were good value, no nonsense and always did a good job. This was a couple of years ago, but they'd been there for years and were well thought of.
Chris
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just spoke to the mechanic who was looking at the peugeot today. Apparantly he says its a lost cause, doesn' want to get involved becasue the motor is only running on two cylinders, is burning diesel oil (smoky exhaust) and the heater is pushing humid water into the car causing moisture on the windows internally!!!
all very odd for a car that goes.
he has not carried out a compression test so does not know about the Head Gasket, which is all that i really wanted to get clarified. What on earth could be the problem, is the engine a heap of junk, why did the initial mechanic who saw the car for its MOT in December say i needed a Head gasket change? Many question, no firm answers. Do i need a private detective?
martin
the symptoms are:
-Radiator leaking into the car (some how)
-Juddering and poor performance, poor idle
-white or bluish smoke when started, goes eventually
-no hot air, only cold
-sporadic accelleration when foot down
-ok performance on motorway once warm
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Get rid of it mate. Its not worth the hassle.
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I get the impression that the XUD spares market is fairly firm, so should this be worth more than buttons to a specialist Pug breaker?
rg
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