How do you deal with people hogging the middle lane?
I was driving down the M23 on Sunday morning and was amazed at the driver of a red Ford Escort Estate. He sat in the middle lane for at least 10 miles whilst people overtook him and then moved over from outside lane to inside lane to "show" him where he should be. People on the inside were having to move to the outside lane to pass him as he was travelling at about 60-65 mph.
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Driving behind them and giving them a good confident three seconds of full beam generally works I find. If that doesn't work you can assume they are impossibly stupid and you're best off getting away from them.
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Ignore them. Do anything at all and you risk provoking a road rage type incident, eg. blocking you in, keeping pace with you for miles etc.
Best left for any remaining traffic police to deal with, or perhaps they'll get "corrected" by one of Kenny Noye's pals and try and start a road rage spat with him...
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Show me an Escort estate that can keep up with, out brake or out handle a 156 and I'll be worried. My vote is for the headlights. But then.......
If you were able to see that this behaviour continued for 10 miles or so, I can only assume traffic was averaging 60-65mph. In which case, what's the problem?
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When I encounter this I overtake and then cross from the outer lane to the inner lane in one manoeuvre.
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L\'escargot.
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Just get past and leave them behind.
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>>People on the inside were having to move to the outside lane to pass him as he was travelling at about 60-65 mph.
Wouldn't it be so much more sensible if you could pass on the inside lane! No lane changing required so it must be safer. They use this system in North America & it seems to work fine. Some of their highways are just as congested as our motorways so I don't see traffic volume a problem. Perhaps there is a safety risk in this system that I'm missing but it would appear to reduce one large area of frustration.
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I have this policy where if I come up behind someone travelling slower than me on a motorway I: indicate right and when clear change lanes and drive past them, when past and lanes clear I indicate left and pull in.
Its not difficult, and it doesn't get my blood boiling.
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But folks, surely there was no problem if traffic conditions were such that Romeo was able to witness this driver for more than 10 miles?
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There are no traffic police anymore and won't be until the Highways Agency mob start being given more powers, you heard it here first.
And so we just have to accept that we now have US style multi-lane passing. Just get used to it.
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I just could not understand why he ignored various people flashing him (he even once put his brakes on with someone up behind him) and he also seemed oblivious to everyone overtaking him then blatantly pulling over in to the nearside lane. I used to flash them, but my wife has tried to calm me down and get me to understand that it probably will not affect my life greatly.
Would 5 or 10 yearly retests improve our general standards?
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Instant lane indiscipline fines as in France would though.
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I come across so many now I do one of two things:
When its quiet go round them and exaggerate the return to the inside lane.
When it's busy, they are in a queue and the outside lane is busy carry on in the inside lane.
I travel over the Pennines on the M62 once a week after 11pm and it's pretty quiet. From my experience of doing this journey for three years some of the worst middle lane hoggers are taxi drivers. They simply refuse to budge and I have seen them come up behind overtaking wagons and slam on rather than move out of the lane and overtake.
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The RAC used to have a name for them, CLODS.
It represents Centre Lane Owner Drivers' Society.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Just pass them on the inside... it is NOT illegal, and the scameras can't 'catch' you for it. Not much chance of seeing a traffic cop anyway... Just be ready to dive onto the hard shoulder if they 'panic'. I usually find that most CLODS move over after an inside overtake....
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Are you saying that it is not illegal due to "traffic in the other lanes are going slower". Would this stand up as a defense? I always thought that this could only be interpreted if you are in heavy traffic.
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I've heard of a fun game to play if it's not too busy. Apologies if I heard it here!
Essentially, go to lane 3 and overtake. Return to lane 1. Gently decelerate, and wait for them to pass you. Repeat until they notice and move to lane 1. See how many repeats you can manage.
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>>"traffic in the other lanes are going slower">>
It is not illegal if, by any chance, the inside lane of traffic is moving faster than the outside lanes - it is not being done deliberately but due purely to road conditions.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Switching lanes to undertake is most certainly illegal. You're only allowed to pass cars on the left when in queues of slow moving traffic.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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As I've outlined before, there are 2 terms used in the highway code - 'must' and 'should'. Items prefixed by must have a law to back up that specific offence, eg you must not overtake on double white lines. However, items prefixed by should or nothing, are advisory only, and to quote:
"242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
Note the lack of must - there is NO SPECIFIC offence of 'undertaking'. The BiB would have to take you to court and prove careless driving, or driving without due care, which I think they'd have a hard time doing if you were keeping a steady 70mph and passed a car travelling at 55mph in the centre lane.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Richard, I don't need to be preached on the Highway code. You seem to be arguing with yourself here. There is a world of difference between holding your lane while approaching middle lane hoggers and passing them on the inside as opposed to switching to the inside lane and undertaking. It does not become legal simply because you are maintaining 70mph!
If you want to be pedantic Richard lets consider solid white lines. Who says you cannot overtake on double whites? You are not permitted to cross a solid white line. This is not the same as overtaking. I regularly overtake cars on my bike without crossing the line. This is something police riding instructors teach.
Finally, do you really think you would have hope in hells chance of getting away with undertaking if you were reported for it? I don't think so.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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I can understand people suggesting overtaking on the inside.
the trouble surely is, though, that as such overtaking doesn't generally happen an unaware driver- as the middle lane guy here probably is- might move over just as you are doing it !
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That's the justification for banning it - it doesn't happen much, so people don't expect it, so it's dangerous. Whilst I can see the logic, it is no more than a statement that it needs to be banned because it is banned.
Personally, I observe for some time to make sure that they have no intention of moving left, and I give them ample opportunity and warning. I then move left and wait to see if they take the hint. If not, gently and carefully does it.
What amazes me is that sometime I can make the safety margin even bigger by using lane 1 to get past a lane 3 hogger, leaving an empty lane 2 as a buffer between us. Hello?? Wakey wakey??
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It's when they move straight back out after you've passed that provokes the should I laugh/cry response.
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I seem to be out of step here. On the rare occasions when I go on the motorway, if the motorway is three lane, and traffic is light, I don't bother swerving in and out every time I overtake. I generally try to keep up 70 mph in the middle lane, overtaking almost everything. Every so often, (quite often, really) cars overtake me doing 90 to 100, sometimes in groups. If there is anything in the mid lane doing less than 70 I wait for an opportunity and overtake them. I never try to teach lessons. I'm not that 'skilled'.
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A few years ago I was on an almost empty M1. 2 lorries up ahead, so pulled to middle lane to pass them, thought I wouldn't bother pulling in between (it was a fair distance) and the only other vehicle on that section of road came up behind and flashed me to pull in.
As it was a marked police car, I thought it best to do as they suggested.
Not too sure that they would ever stop anyone for middle lane hogging, but don't think I want to be the one to find out either.
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You can´t really do that Hillman. The middle lane AFAIK is the first overtaking lane, the outer lane the second overtaking lane. If you´re sitting in the middle lane and not overtaking anything i.e. the inside lane is free, indicate and move into it.
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I seem to be out of step here. On the rare occasions when I go on the motorway, if the motorway is three lane, and traffic is light, I don't bother swerving in and out every time I overtake. I generally try to keep up 70 mph in the middle lane, overtaking almost everything. Every so often, (quite often, really) cars overtake me doing 90 to 100, [b]sometimes in groups.[/b]
Perhaps they wouldn't have got grouped up if there weren't people sitting in the middle lane despite not overtaking anything?
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i understand undertaking can be dangerous on a 3 lane motorway as the driver may well realise and suddenly pull in, but what about the stretches of 4 lanes around parts of the M25. When travelling round there on xmas day last year at bout 75 i undertook a car who was doing 60-6f in the 3rd of for lanes. Dad later was not happy, but surely is safer than moving across from inside lane to 4th lane. apart from that u just let them get on their way surely, although i admit is not what i have always done. (sorry dad)
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Im a student ive got time!!!
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I'm sure this has been discussed before (!) and if you argue against me I will not argue back. But, my definition of "overtaking" or "undertaking" is that one moves from one lane to another, then returns to the original lane to complete the manouevre (sp?). If one goes past a car in the second lane by maintaining your position in the inner lane is that "undertaking"? I think not, so I quite often go past them on the inner lane - obviously taking great care. The car in the centre lane is in a queue. Somewhere in front of him on the motorway is another car in the middle lane! What I notice about middle lane hoggers is that most of them seem to be in a complete daze - totally unaware of others and almost invariably sticking to the middle lane whatever the traffic conditions and relative speeds. By the way, I only do this when my wife is not with me - when she is in the car, no going past on the inner lane is allowed and certainly no going into the middle lane and flashing them.
Phil
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I've read somewhere that the Traffic plod would not make it offence to untake, unless you cause an accident.
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I am in the "Get past them safely" camp. This involves maybe flashing them to give them a chance, then if they don't move overtake on the offside lane in the normal way.
They are usually not driving aggressively but are usually ignorent or uncaring about the inconvenience they cause others.
Personally if that was the only problem on our roads I would be a happy bunny!
H
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I think not, so I quite often go past themon the inner lane - obviously taking great care.
How do you undertake with great care? e.g. go past very slowly or go past very quickly? With the latter course you are exposed to danger for a shorter time.
It seems to me that you can do very little if the middle lane hogger suddenly moves to his left.
As a matter of interest I wonder who would be deemed to be at fault if there were a collision. I would have thought the undertaking driver would have little going for him.
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I used to know a lad who always drove in the middle lane because he thought it safer.
One night he was pulled over on th M57 by the BiB, who told him he was causing an obstruction. No points, just a friendly warning, but when they checked his details on the computer his car turned out to be two different Ford Orions welded together, so the routine stop may well have saved his life.
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I don't hog the middle lane myself and the highway code recommends that one should always move back to lane 1 when it's clear. But if someone doing 60-65 is hogging the middle lane - just pass them in lane 3! If the hogger is doing 70, in theory nobody should be passing them anyway, so they're not a hogger!
Tailgaters are the no-1 motorway menace, followed by lane-hoppers (as opposed to hoggers).
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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...initially I was thinking I agreed with Sofa Spud.
But I can't agree with sentence 3 - just because you are doing the limit, doesn't give you the right to obstruct people who wish to exceed. Still a hogger IMO.
And while I agree about tailgaters, much of that only happens because people can't/won't move out of lane 3 due to lane hoggers...
Not sure about lane hoppers - guess you meant those who go through whichever lane is apparently moving fastest, swiching lanes at high speed. Seen a few of them and yes. they are dangerous, but again if people were in the "right" lane then they wouldn't need, or be able, to do it.
So on balance hoggers must be the worst...
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"can't agree with sentence 3 - just because you are doing the limit, doesn't give you the right to obstruct people who wish to exceed. Still a hogger IMO."
In fairness, Smokie, SS did qualify his sentence 3 by saying "in theory......"
Phil
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". . .I don't bother swerving in and out every time I overtake. I generally try to keep up 70 mph in the middle lane . . . I'm not that 'skilled'."
Does anyone else detect a causal connection running through that post? What has "swerving" got to do with moving carefully between lanes? If you are swerving, you are not driving well. Perhaps the post was a wind-up.
The Highway Code and all the motoring authorities are unequivocal: don't hog the middle lane, do use the left-most lane whenever possible. Even on a fairly clear motorway the members of CLODS are annoying other drivers even if they are not actually obstructing them. Sustained annoyance induces road rage.
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The initial post is a bit unusual in that he could be observed doing this for 10 miles. Surely one would have overtaken in the outside lane.
Discussed many times but middle lane hogging has to be more clearly defined.
I came up from Dover on to the M1 the other week and the traffic was so heavy that virtually all three lanes were full all moving at their respective lane speed with the outside being obviously the faster.
If you were in the middle lane with traffic in the front what would be the point of trying to squeeze into the inside lane between mainly HGVs.
I did notice one car teaching everyone a lesson. He would overtake in the outside lane and squeeze across the crowded middle one and then into the inner.
Then repeat the move back to the outside and then back all over again.
In the darkness his rear lights resembled a demented wasp as it weaved backwards and forwards.
I have no doubt he was giving us all a lesson in what we should be doing but common sense tells me that if we were all doing this accidents would happen.
I see it that if you are in the middle lane keeping up with the traffic at perhaps 70+ there is nothing wrong with remaining in that lane.
Constantly trying to squeeze back in between HGVs is a recipe for disaster.
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When I used to do runs for work to Heathrow, due to the timing of the flights of people I'd be picking up/dropping off, I'd usually be hitting the end of rush hour so that traffic was moving but still quiet busy.
I'd place the car on the inside lane, sit at 70(ish) and not have to brake at all, whilst undertaking the 3 other lanes doing about 60. I was prepared to move into hardshoulder if needed and thumbs on the horn as well just in case.
When I was taken out for driver training by a Hampshire Policeman, he did tell me that it was ok for me to sit in the inside lane and keep a constant speed, and then undertake someone. What was not ok was to be in middle lane, move over to left, and perform an undertaking move, then move back into middle lane. That is the rule I stick to, and if I get pulled over for it, I'll revaluate it, but until then, it works.
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I've noticed a couple of people here suggesting using the left indicator when moving to a left hand lane.Why?Surely it is taken for granted that you return to the left after an overtaking manouvre.Do you indicate after overtaking on an A road,no one's going to think you might stay on the outside and drive into oncoming traffic?
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Depends which "left" lane you're moving into.
Middle to left, no (unless pulling in a little too close and wanting to offer a semi-apology).
Right to middle, of course, particularly if there is traffic in the left lane that might, for some logical or illogical reason, choose that moment to pull out into the centre lane.
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With the IAM I was taught to indicate only when it will be of value to another road user...
That is, look around you and think about whether you need to or not on each and every instance...
That is - think about your driving instead of being on auto pilot!
It's pointless indicating in when your relative speed is such that you are pulling away from the car you are pulling in front of. Whichever lane it is.
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When you start taking things for granted or making assumptions about other drivers actions then you are more likely to end up in an accident.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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In dense traffic the mantra "stay in lane" is a worthy one. It DOES work on the M25 and from the description of this incident I would suggest was working equally well here.
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>>Not sure about lane hoppers - guess you meant those who go through whichever lane is apparently moving fastest, swiching lanes at high speed. Seen a few of them and yes. they are dangerous, but again if people were in the "right" lane then they wouldn't need, or be able, to do it.
I mean drivers who keep switching lanes or, worst of all, come straight from the slip road across to the outside lane and cut straight back from there to leave the motorway.
I'm not advocating lane hogging - just that I don't get worked up about it.
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There is the problem on a busy motorways where, if you pull in to lane 1, it's difficult to pull back out into lane 2.
In those circs, staying out isn't lane hogging.
Cheers, SS
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>>How do you deal with people hogging the middle lane?
I overtake them using the right hand lane.
And then, on the basis that life is too short to get wound up over something so trivial, forget about it. But then, other people's brake lights don't sear my retinas either.
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I overtake them using the right hand lane. And then, on the basis that life is too short to get wound up over something so trivial, forget about it. But then, other people's brake lights don't sear my retinas either.
Must be difficult being so perfect and even tempered, No F2MR. How do those around you cope?
;-)
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Actually its deliberate.
I used to be Mr. Road Rage. Drove like a lunatic, always pushing, tail-gating, braking too hard, geeting annoyed wiht everybody else on the road, etc. etc.
Really totally unacceptable.
A combination of growing up, the realisation caused by living in countries where you get shot for that type of behaviour and an increasing understanding of what is, and is not, important caused a change in behaviour and thinking.
I wouldn't say another driver never winds me up, but its very rare now and even when they do, I manage to surpress the need to react.
Like I said, life is too short and every minute spent on an idiot is one minute less spent on someone worthwhile.
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I've done a fair bit of driving in the early hours on empty motorways and try, as far as possible, to stay in the left lane. I am happy to pass on the left if there is a MLOC Member sitting fat dumb and happy in the middle lane, but there is one disadvantage of the left lane on many of our motorways and that is the amount of tramlining caused by heavy vehicles. Sometimes it is safer to drive in the middle lane, particularly when wet, rather than be steered along the inside lane in wide tracks full of water.
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A fair point, Colin, and I have done so in the past. But you need then to be aware that you are in the "wrong" lane and keep watch for the need to move over.
Of course, you should be keeping watch anyway. I think the real irritation with MLOC members is that they are clearly not doing so.
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A fair point, Colin, and I have done so in the past. But you need then to be aware that you are in the "wrong" lane and keep watch for the need to move over. Of course, you should be keeping watch anyway. I think the real irritation with MLOC members is that they are clearly not doing so.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. I bet most of them are either unaware of what they are doing or do not realise the "mistake" they are making, both of which are pretty scary thoughts.
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>How do you deal with people hogging the middle lane?
If there's not a lot of traffic, I overtake them on the right hand side.
If there's a lot of traffic there's probably not enough space for anybody to be changing lanes, and it's best just to go with the flow of the traffic, whichever lane you're in. And overtaking a couple of cars won't get you there any more quickly.
If there's a lot of traffic I tend to drive in the lefthandmost lane. Not for nothing do (some) truckers refer to the 'fast' lane as a carpark.
Am I missing something in the question?
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Am I missing something in the question?
Yes, MM - the invitation to get into a fit of righteous indignation. ;-)
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I bet some people wouldn't even 'get' that message. They'll probably read that as 'don't stay in the far outside lane unless overtaking'.
Be a lot clearer to most of the CLODs if the matrix simply said 'DON'T hog the middle lane unless overtaking'
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