> its a wise idea to have the plugs changed now, although other symptoms of worn spark plugs should be evident, like poor emissions test results, misfiring and erratic idling.<
Had its MOT last month. Emissions/idle speed OK.
> don't some Micras have trouble with throttle bodies, and could it be this?<
Sounds an expensive problem to fix? But would such a problem occur after 80k miles of reasonably trouble-free starting?
Thanks
Mike
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Unlikely to be the throttle body.
I would replace the coolant temp sensor and get the modified piece of wiring loom to the temp sensor (available from the dealer). Its not that expensive.
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Good diagnosis, Aprilia.
The Micra was injecting far too much fuel when cold. No way would it start, I flattended the battery twice!
My local garage fitted new Bosch spark plugs and fitted the wiring loom (£28 from Nissan main dealer). It then fired up first time from cold.
I'm just a bit puzzled, after 80k of reliable starting, the car goes bonkers and needs this wiring loom retro-fit now.
Thanks
Mike
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The cold start engine flooding has re-emerged after fitting the wiring harness fixed it immediately. Five months of 1st time starting during the cold snap -- now it floods every morning.
The only thing I can think of is that the new wiring has developed a problem.
Re: Coolant temp sensor. This has always worked in a strange way. It suddenly "jumps" from cold to warm indicator when engine is warmed up.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Mike
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Firstly you tell us the car has flooded but how do you know that. Non Starting is not just due to floodind. As Aprilia said have a new temp sensor and the cable. Was the sensor changed. ? Regards Peter
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connecting the terminals on the coolant sensor with some wire and see if that helps ??
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DO you mean short them together. That will tell the ECU that the engine is overheating as this resistance is about 200 ohms at 80 degrees C. Shorting it out is not a good ideal for a novice. Regards Peter
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That's the idea Peter the hot engine signal reduces the fueling to minimum to stop the plugs getting soaked in fuel - always works for me on flooded Nissans. Just a diagnostic test to confirm overfueling or to get the engine going but replace plug straight away when does start.
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>Firstly you tell us the car has flooded but how do you know that. Non Starting is not just due to floodind.<
Symptoms seem similar to engine flood. Engine turns over but won't start. Black cloud from exhaust and smell of fuel when it finally starts. When I had this problem previously, a chap from Green Flag took the plugs out. Lots of fuel on them.
>As Aprilia said have a new temp sensor and the cable. Was the sensor changed. ? Regards Peter<
Back in October, the cable harness was fitted but not the temp sensor. It then started 1st time. Just started playing up again over last 2 weeks.
Thanks,
Mike
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For what they cost (not a lot) I would always try a new temp sensor.
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When I had the same problem with my old K11, the dealer sold me the harness alone, telling me the CTS wasn't needed. This turned out to be incorrect - the harness alone will not cure this. Like Aprilia says, try a new CTS.
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Thanks, this is useful info. I'll tell the mechanic when I take it in.
Just to confirm. The coolant temp sensor is the one used for the engine temp gauge? My gauge jumps suddenly from cold to warm, it doesn't move gradually.
Where is it located?
I maybe could replace this myself -- I presume Nissan will have them in stock.
Mike
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No, its the one that sends an engine temperature signal to your engine management system.
Intermotor sell these (try you local motor factor) they cost about £15 - I think the part no. is 55516 (replaces most Nissan senders), but get the factor to check in his Intermotor catalogue.
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Thanks.
Is it a DIY job suitable for a newbie?
I have a Haynes manual, but it is a bit vague about the location of sensors.
Mike
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Haynes manual section 3.5. The bottom picture 6.2 has it arrowed. Note they've removed the distributor and another connector which is above it on that pic. I think it should be possible to change the CTS without removing the distributor, (I never tried fitting a new one on mine as I decided to change the car). Providing you can get in and have the right socket, I can't see why you shouldn't be able to try doing it yourself.
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Since the fuelling is completely to pot, it could well be the throttle body at fault - this is a known trouble-spot on Micras, see my earlier post here...
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=39...2
...for more details and a link to possible very cheap DIY fix, before you spend any more money!
I can't help thinking that "We'll change the wiring loom", sounds like a classic "we can't think of anything else" response...
Please can you post follow-ups to let us know how you get on.
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Left it overnight with my local mechanic. He knows some of the people at the local Nissan main dealer and had phoned them earlier.
They told him that they haven't heard of the replacement wiring loom going kaput. Fair enough.
They also mentioned a grub screw behind the injectors which "had to be turned to 30%". What?
Anyway the upshot of it is... The Micra started up first time at the garage, without anything being done! typical.
Looks like its going to be one of those intermittent problems...take it to the garage and the symptoms disappear.
Mike
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Left it overnight at the garage for 2 nights. It started first time, both mornings for the mechanic.
Cost me £50 for 2hrs work checking stuff over, tinkering with the idle speed etc.
Got the car back last night.
Went to start up this morning. Guess what? It turned over but wouldn't start. After a couple of tries the engine was well flooded.
I'm tempted to get rid.
Mike
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Intermotor part 55516 is a "water temp sender".
I'll try one of these...
Mike
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Do you keep your car outside overnight? If so the difference in temperature could explain why the car started in the garage but not outside your home.
PS: Do you know that if your engine floods you should hold the accelator pedal to the floor as you turn the engine over? Be prepared to jump off it as soon as the engine fires up though.
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Chris,
The garage stored it outside overnight.
I sometimes garage the car, sometimes not. Last night, for instance, I left it out.
Also, the Micra fired up first time all through the cold spell!
So I don't really know if it is weather dependent. On the other hand, once started up the car can be left at work for 8 hrs and will fire up first time to get me home. Go figure.
Very strange. Floods 3 days in a row at my house; starts up OK for 2 mornings at the garage; then floods 2 days in a row when I get it back!
Current strategy is to replace the engine temp sensor (£15). (Newbie tips welcomed -- the Haynes manual reckons it just screws out. That's if I can locate and get access to the damned thing.)
Apart from that, it's going to be a visit to the main dealer. Could turn out expensive for a £600 car.
Mike
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Yes, the temp sensor just unscrews.
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Thanks, Aprilia.
[Newbie alert]
Is it easily accessible? Looks like if I shift the HT leads to one side there are some connectors under there near the distributor.
Is it just a case of reaching my hand down and twisting.
[/Newbie alert]
Seriously though, I'm thinking about trying more DIY car maintenance after being stung £60 for naff all.
Mike
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You'll need a ring spanner to start it off.Get ready with the new one and you wont loose much water (very,very rare for these sensors to go though)!
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The intermittent nature of the fault would certainly be consistent with a "dry" soldered joint in the throttle body; click on the link in my earlier post to the micra.com.au people, they seem to know their Micras, and would doubtless be able to offer advice as well as a step-by-step resoldering guide.
Also, bba-reman offer a test-hire of throttle bodies (it-says-here) if you wanted to eliminate that as the cause.
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I would agree with Saabfanatic,that fix cured my wifes Micra from jerking,stalling etc.However her car DID start everytime-The solder fix is easy to do,you dont even need solder,just a soldering iron!
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Flooding can be a symptom of the ignition system not being up to scratch, if the spark plugs haven't been changed it's wise to put in a set of NGK's and set the gap to 1.1mm - some mechanics set them too narrow and it causes bad starting and flat spots.
Check that the ht leads, coil, cap etc. are all clean and in good condition.
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New plugs (Bosch) were fitted 4 months ago, when I had the Nissan main dealer wiring harness fitted. So I should be getting a good spark...
I have sprayed WD40 on the HT leads and distributor cap.
Mike
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I have sprayed WD40 on the HT leads and distributor cap.
Bad move, IMHO. This will attract dust and the like, and eventually the leads will start tracking with all the crud they'll accumilate by the sticky substance you've gone and sprayed on them.
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Damn! I'd better wipe 'em over.
Started first time this morning -- but only just. Sounded very "throaty" and weak.
I'm starting to think that it's an ignition problem -- that the engine flooding is caused when it doesn't fire up first time.
Mike
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Thanks for your reply.
My problem is purely with getting started. I'm not sure if it won't start because the engine floods or if the engine floods anyway after a couple of unsuccessful starts.
Once started, the Micra drives really well. I haven't had any erratic stalling etc. when I am off and running. So I'm not sure if the throttle body is problematic.
It is an intermittant problem. Started up OK the last 2 days, but will probably let me down when I have to get to work tomorrow morning!
Mike
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Access to the temp senders is proving difficult.
I removed the distributor HT leads.
There is a SCART-like electrical connector on the distributor. It is for the main engine management connections. Tried to remove this by hand, but it wouldn't budge. Tried to prise it off gently with a screwdriver, but gave up for fear of fracturing it -- it is only thin plastic.
Any tips for removing stuck electrical connectors?
Thanks
Mike
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Hi Mike can you tell me if you found a solution to this problem as Im having exactly the same problem with my micra? The engine is flooded every day takes me ages to get car started.
Edited by stokebloke on 08/09/2008 at 18:14
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Hi, I've been reading this thread with interest as my wife's 'N' reg K11 Micra has been giving us similar problems.
It started bout two months back with it occasionally refusing to start in the morning whenever the conditions demanded a bit more out of it to start. The problem steadily got worse until recently it refused to start almost every other morning. If we succeeded in getting it going it would run fine for the rest of the day. (Until the next morning)
I spoke to my mechanic and he recommended I start with checking out the condition of the distributor cap.
When I removed it, I found the terminals inside and the end of the rotor arm covered in some sort of white crusty matrial. I cleaned the terminals up using a Minicraft drill and small abrasive bit and the rotor arm end with a small file, then reassembled it.
It started straight away which was something, as the engine was flooded from my earlier attempts to start it.
It's been fine since. In fact it's running much better all round.
I hope this helps someone out there who may have a similar problem with their K11 as I think they're great little cars
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