There was an article on GMTV this morning about lollipop persons quitting and the difficulty in recruitment - not due to low pay -but because of increasing road rage directed against them. There was an instance of one being knocked down and left with a broken leg having tried to stop the traffic to let some children cross the road.
How is it that the UK has one of the best overall accident records and death rates in Europe but I believe the worst accident rate for children.
Two points here - Frankly I find directing road rage against a lollipop person(many are elderly) who is only guiding children acoss a busy road, to be appalling and I'm sure most do as well. As for refusing to stop and knocking one over -- how about throwing away the key. assuming he/she was caught that is!
The second point, about our child road casulties. As far as I am aware the Uk is the only major european country wher it starts getting dark in winter about 3.30 pm. Could this be the reason for the high accident and death rate. I have heard that if the clocks were aligned to Europe it would save x childrens lives.
I expect we are different to satisfy some minority interest - dairy farmers in the north of Scotland perhaps?- but few things can be more important than children's lives. I certainly feel that about my own children.
If I'm off track here please let me know>
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I suspect the answer is that practically nobody goes to school on a school bus anymore. The US school busses are incredibly safe (and lit up like a Christmas tree) and if you mess with them, you are in deep trouble.
Bad behavoiur towards lollipop persons is a result of other frustrations on the roads I suspect. Certainly inexcusable, but perhaps the proliferation of speed humps, traffic calming, traffic lights, delays, diversions etc means that it is more likely that a lollipop person is going to be in the unhappy position of being the "last straw" for some impatient and uncivilised berk.
ps I still want to be a lollipop man when I retire.
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I was watching something similar last night on the news. I can't understand why there is not a speed limit of 10 or 15mph maximum outside all schools, surly that would save alot of lives and injuries. Also enforcing those stupid people who think that the yellow zigzag is a drop off point, don't they realise it is there for the safety of all the children???? A regular run I used to do always put me passing a school at home time in Woking, I never did more then 15mph past it, 38 ton can do alot of damage to a kid who is running accross the road.
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Violence/abuse towards lollipop people is disgusting.
Our local village school doesnt have one, and consequently either me or my wife have to help our 8 year old across a country B road.
However the aggressiveness of the morning traffic on this road is incredible. To be honest I deliberately make them stop, probably at some risk to myself !
In my opinion, forgetting speed calming measures, cameras etc, any driver who can actually see young children milling around a school area and still continues to drive with this sort of attitude should be hung, not given 3 points for speeding !
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This is for Roly93
Roly, I think I may have inadvertently found the solution to your problem.
A few weeks back I was looking after a friend's farm in the wilds of Dorset. We decided to walk to the village pub one evening and as this involved a walk along the verge of a wide NSL stretch of road I dragged my high-vis jacket from the car for the walk. Without fail every car that came into sight slammed on the anchors and went past at a reasonable pace. When we got to the pub one of the drivers had just pulled in there and pointed out that with my dark jeans on and with my wife dressed in dark clothes we looked like a couple of Police officers, hence them slamming on their brakes. Needless to say they didn't think I was a police officer when it came to the lock-in at closing time :o)
Anyway, I recommend you nip along to your local tool hire place and buy yourself high-viz coat in yellow with reflective banding. Many drivers will instinctively slow when they see you, which should help get across the road.
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I don't think the clocks going back is the main reason. I believe it's the way our society now conducts itself when it comes to getting from A to B. We don't walk anywhere, and it's not just kids going to school. I've watched my (overweight) neighbour take the car on a round trip of just over a mile, to get his paper on a Sunday, rain or shine. If we travel by car everywhere, how are our kids going to acquire an appreciation of road safety? There's no time in the school curricullum for it and the Cycling Proficiency is struggling to get volunteers to run the courses. I'm having to pay £99 for private lessons for my two boys. Worth every penny if it helps keep them safe from drivers who won't give other road users the time and space they need.
Chris M
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Our local police had to put a temporary camera up for the local lollipop man who worked on a Zebra crossing! Cars just refused to stop and he was hit twice.
He still persists though and I think he does it 'cause he likes to know the kids are safer with him there.
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It's the inevitable result of making cars faster, more comfortable, with better and louder in-car entertainment, and turning them into status symbols, and then expecting their now totally-detached drivers to care any more about anybody outside their own box.
Driving is now a kind of simulated reality game - you just sit back in your seat and watch the rest of the world projected onto the large screen in front. You then try and get from A to B in the shortest possible time, trying, but not too hard, to avoid getting any points deducted for hitting things or breaking various petty "rules".
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While to school arrival/departure period is dangerous, what about the period after school? Mine finish at 2.20 on a Friday - and then there's the holidays.
School crossing patrols are important, but so is child and driver training to prevent accidents occuring at any time.
My eldest two have done compulsory horse rider road safety training - 10 hours of it. The eldest has since passed her car test, and scored partic. well on the theory test, which she put down to the riding training.
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I should point out that the horse rider training I mentioned above is only compulsory in our kids' branch of the Pony Club.
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I have another take on this issue. However must add that any form of abuse or rage towards croosing patrols is unacceptable. Anyone with children will know the comfort of having a responsible person seeing their children across busy roads.
Crossing patrols operate at peak traffic time and have the ability to cause tail backs. However operated with a bit of common sense the disruption can be kept minimal. Drivers do come across the ones who are constantly back and forwards onto the road to allow ones and twos across, even waiting until some (adults and children)reach the crossing. This causes an almost constant halting of the traffic with only a few cars moving before the sequence starts again. Some do not seem prepared to 'stack' a few up and facilitating a larger group to cross and thereby balancing disruption with the need to facilitate safe crossing.
Is it a power thing or a lack of training of the impact on congestion?
Fullchat
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Presumably the police are empowered to work as lollipoppers. So why not, from time to time, replace the normal lollipop people with PC's dressed as normal patrols? Additional police could observe the scene discreetly and pounce on dangerous motorists. I expect this has been done before. However, if motorists know there's a chance that any crossing patrol might be a policeman / woman, they might drive more carefully.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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I fully acknowledge Fullchat's point about frustration and possible 'little hitler's. However you've got to be pretty well near certifiable to knock a crossing patrol over on purpose. I agree with others that it is an unfortunate biproduct of life today. However one thing still leaves me puzzled. How can we have about the best overall road safety record in general but the worst for children? Do we really have suicidal kids wantonly throwing themselves under moving traffic. I don't think so but why the parodox? Perhaps we do need to introduce compulsory road safety into school curriculums. Any ideas?
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>>Do we really have suicidal kids wantonly throwing themselves under moving traffic. I don't think so but why the parodox? Perhaps we do need to introduce compulsory road safety into school curriculums. Any ideas?
None to be honest.But I am afraid suicial kids are about,I have a school around the corner where they run across in front of drivers-and laugh about it.My Daughter goes to a school 2 mile away/main road with pedestrian traffic lights..Not many drivers stop at these lights giving kids a hard time crossing,totaly wrong and if this occurs in other areas suspect many more kids are going to be run down,through no fault of their own,I do feel for these lollipop people as they do a fine job.But wish drivers would give em a break-let them do there job..If not find another route
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Steve
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Presumably the police are empowered to work as lollipoppers. So why not, from time to time, replace the normal lollipop people with PC's dressed as normal patrols? Additional police could observe the scene discreetly and pounce on dangerous motorists. I expect this has been done before. However, if motorists know there's a chance that any crossing patrol might be a policeman / woman, they might drive more carefully. Cheers, Sofa Spud
It's a sensible, workable cost-effective idea... which means it will never be tried by our police!!
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Presumably the police are empowered to work as lollipoppers. So why not, from time to time, replace the normal lollipop people with PC's dressed as normal patrols? Additional police could observe the scene discreetly and pounce on dangerous motorists.
The lollipopper for our kid's school has threatened to resign this week, because she is being ignored by drivers pushing past. We have asked for help, but none is forthcoming.
Our local police are thus willing to provide manpower to:
(a) man a scamera van parked illegally on a footpath over a bridge whose walls neatly hide all of the van bar the nasty black window on the side, to enforce a 60 limit on the only section of straight road nearby, a section that is several miles long, has a perfect sightline, and which is wide enough for about 4 lanes (not joking). This is the only safe overtaking opportunity in the vicinity; unsurprisingly, overtaking now happens in the unsafe places.
(b) man a scamera van on a dual carriageway where there have been no accidents and which has a 30 limit justified by the needs of the OTHER carriageway, not the carriageway that is observed. Just to rub some salt in, the van is placed 10 yards from the end of the 30 limit.
(c) Provide vigorous enforcement of the local parking regulations on the one day in the school year, the end of term, when all the children leave close together and hence parking space locally is, err, tight. No doubt there is scope for a collaborative cross-governmental exercise in which plod and the wardens can ticket anyone parked naughtily and social services can have a word with anyone who neglects their child by being late.
None of the drivers in the three examples are causing a clear and immediate danger. The idiots who cannot realise that a lollipop person is there because young children are trying to cross the road are causing a serious hazard, but nothing is done.
Don't tell me that roads enforcement is about safety. I don't believe it any more, and this news is the last straw.
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I have heard that if the clocks were aligned to Europe it would save x childrens lives
This was tried in the late sixties when I was at grammar school.The problem was that children were going to school in the dark instead.Not enough daylight in midwinter seems to be the trouble.
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Is there some reason why, when I copy and paste part of someones post it does not appear in mine?It keeps happening,and my post has appeared in itallics!
I was replying to the idea of aligning our clocks with the rest of Europe.
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Is there some reason why, when I copy and paste part of someones post it does not appear in mine?
As I previously mentioned to you.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=34...6
ps, sorted out this one as well ;o)
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Thanks,did not return to previous post so did not see,I will use ' 'when I extract part of a post.
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>> I have heard that if the clocks were aligned to Europe it would save x childrens lives
Not enough daylight in midwinter seems to be the trouble.
The Europeans solve this connundrum by making school hours 8.30 to 2.30, CET of course, thus fittng in with daylight hours.
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Patently -- I think you have summed it up perfectly. This behaviour could be curtailed effectively if resources were allocated across the board.
One has to ask whether there is the will & desire to act or to continue the present 'lucrative' policy of mass automated speed control.
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I occasionally cross Congleton road in Biddulph at a zebra crossing with a lollipop lady. I have occasionlly been half way across (no lady on duty) when a muppet has swerved onto the other side of the road to pass me on the vacant side of the crossing.
And cars travelling at 40 mph plus (30 mph limit) are only too common.
A few speed cameras here and some jail sentences might work because people who drive like that are sure as eggs are oval going to kill someon (or seriously injure them ) one day.
Traffic police? Never see them..
madf
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I occasionally cross Congleton road in Biddulph at a zebra crossing with a lollipop lady. I have occasionlly been half way across (no lady on duty) when a muppet has swerved onto the other side of the road to pass me on the vacant side of the crossing.
Granted, the cameras will catch those at 40+. But how, pray, does a speed camera catch the muppet carving you up on a zebra crossing at 34 or less?
Speeding and dangerous driving are two completely different offences. Sometimes they happen together, but one does not guarantee the other. Only one is enforced, however.
And that is why it is getting more dangerous not less.
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Automated speed control has arisen because without it there would be a demand on police resources that could not be met. Just watch the traffic police booking one infringement. Everyone else passing goes: whoopee, no patrols for a while, new LSR coming up. Do you seriously think that such methods are feasible with 20 million vehicles on the road, of which at least 10% are driven by lunatics?
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Automated speed control has arisen because without it there would be a demand on police resources that could not be met. Just watch the traffic police booking one infringement. Everyone else passing goes: whoopee, no patrols for a while, new LSR coming up. Do you seriously think that such methods are feasible with 20 million vehicles on the road, of which at least 10% are driven by lunatics
Your quite right of course - there is a obvious need for 'mass' speed control for the reason you state.
Perhaps I'm being cynical but I am not convinced there is sufficient 'will or desire' on the part of the authorities to 'target' the 10% who are lunatics.
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>Frankly I find directing road rage against a lollipop person(many >are elderly) who is only guiding children acoss a busy road, to be >appalling and I'm sure most do as well. As for refusing to stop >and knocking one over --
That happened in Perth, Australia a couple of years ago. Massive community outrage, featured on TV news, papers, etc. Big police activity resulted in an arrest the next day.
>how about throwing away the key. assuming he/she was caught that >is!
I believe that is pretty well what happened. Very stiff sentence.
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>Frankly I find directing road rage against a lollipop person(many >are elderly) who is only guiding children acoss a busy road, to be >appalling and I'm sure most do as well. As for refusing to stop >and knocking one over -- That happened in Perth, Australia a couple of years ago. Massive community outrage, featured on TV news, papers, etc. Big police activity resulted in an arrest the next day. >how about throwing away the key. assuming he/she was caught that >is! I believe that is pretty well what happened. Very stiff sentence.
Good for Oz! I bet that acted as a damn good deterent!
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