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Audi S2 Coupe ?
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Audi S2 Coupe ?
I was just going to say that.
Other options are BMW 635CSI or M6 if you can find one. Check out Munich Legends for one previously owned by the King Hussein of Jordan.
I regularly play the Autotrader game. Set yourself a maximum budget of £10K and then do a national search for everything that takes your fancy.
You'd be amazed at what you can buy for that sort of money.
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General opinion is right - that budget will get you a 911, but there will be plenty more to pay later.
944 or 924 would be a better bet.
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My 964 cost me thousands in parts/running costs over 3 years/40K miles, I had a tame mechanic that did most of the work for beer, but for example clutch plate at £400, shocks/springs £800, dizzy caps (it had two) £80 a pop, thats all from trade suppliers not main dealer. Oil pipes ~ £500, oil thermostat £100, etc,etc...
944 worth looking at esp. in S2 or turbo format, more useable space than a 911.
Well, wait for the floods of people (usually with no actual experience) saying that they are rubbish and unreliable, but...
what about a lotus ?
I am quite tempted by a late excel, and I have seen very good ones go for £4k (private sale - dealers asking double), so lots of headroom on the cash front.
Or a stephens Esprit ? I dont like the early ones - too angular and look dated I think.
Superb handling, performance OK, seems to be a good community.
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I'm intrigued by the Audi S2 Coupe- not familiar to me. I assume it's not a sporty version of the A2! Like the idea of a 6-series, but might that not come with big bills?
I do like lotuses (loti?), but I would like some reliability, and I've heard that older models are not great on this score (I do stand to be corrected!).
Thanks for your input guys.
Alex.
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Dr Alex Mears
Seat Leon Cupra
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
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OK, so its no sports car, but for 7-8K you could get a nice mid-90s Mercedes E320 coupe. There are a couple around on Autotrader at that price.
Very stylish (IMHO), as long as you avoid ones that have been 'blinged'. And very reliable, bar a biodegradable wiring loom.
The extending seatbelt 'arm' is an engineering masterpiece in iteself.
Rgds
Davros
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Personally I would go for a Japanese import sportscar. I'm thinking Celica GT4; late model MR2; Mitsi FTO; Nissan Skyline R33. These are all fun and reliable cars that would be within your price range. If the worst comes to the worst and you blow up an engine or gearbox then secondhand ex-Japan units are available at reasonable cost.
I have serviced a couple of FTO's and they are nice looking little cars with nimble handling and seem to be very reliable. I also have a Skyline myself.. ;-)
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Having owned a 944 and a 911 I think you're right to pass them by this time - there were always additional jobs at service time and even using a specialist the bills mount up very fast.
The difficult you face is that your Leon Cupra is pretty rapid compared to sports coupes of 5-10 years ago.
I would expect the S2 to be expensive if anything breaks - it's a very complex car. It's probably better to look at one of the Japanese coupes - Prelude, RX7, Celica, Supra or Soarer.
Alternatively how about an old Mustang, Corvette or Camaro?
Corrados are probably a bit too old and worn smooth by now!
In your situation, I think I would be inclined to keep the Leon - it's modern, you know its history and its active safety kit is way better than you will find on an older car.
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Audi S2 is nothing to do with the A2. It is based on the Audi Coupe from 1991 to 1996. It also came in Avant form from 93 on culminating in the Porsche tweaked RS2. An RS2 will be over your budget, but you should be able to find a late S2 for £6K that needs nothing doing other than an MOT in a few months.
They have a 2.2 Turbo, 5 cylinder 20 valve engine developing 230BHP. This combined with the quattro drivetrain makes it very potent with a 0-60 time of around 6 secs. If thats not enough, then chip it for around £250 to take it up to a reliable 280BHP. Thats enough to scare off Boxters and M3s (in the wet) as well as your more common Scoobies and Evos.
I owned one for two years and I can honestly say that they are fantastic cars. The Coupe's are stylish and the Avants (based on the Audi 80) are sleepers. For more info check out www.s2forum.com/
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I dont think the S2 is so complex. Audi Q's are fast cross country cars, I just think they feel a little on the dull side to drive.
What are the skylines like as an ownership proposition ? I dont know anything much about them but I notice there is a garage near me that seems to have a couple in all the time. I heard that they were very complex with lots of electronics to go wrong.
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Why not go for a lot of flash for very little cash and have a look at kit cars .
B i L hand builds 355 lookalike kits on to a donor MR2. Great fun to drive and you can look like a Ferrari owner but have that legendary Toyota reliability ... if you use an imported twin turbo as a donor car they are very fast indeed.
Price depends on paint finish and goodies specified but I can assure you if you can spot the fake from 20 yards you are doing well.
He also owns a Dino replica which he built himself which is a real attention grabber.
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Price depends on paint finish and goodies specified but I can assure you if you can spot the fake from 20 yards you are doing well.
If you can't tell the difference when the tinny little 4-pot starts up instead of the howl of the Italian thoroughbred that should be there......
Plus there's a name for people who drive Toyraris, but the swear filter here would start flashing the batphone on Dave's desk.
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Price depends on paint finish and goodies specified but I can assure you if you can spot the fake from 20 yards you are doing well.
A month or so ago i was at a car show and the Italian Replica Car Club had a stand there - you could easily tell they were not genuine, the massive spacers on the wheels were an easy give away amongst others
When i spoke to some of the owners i found that for the money they had spent on converting them to look like ferrari's they could of bought the real thing instead.
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When i spoke to some of the owners i found that for the money they had spent on converting them to look like ferrari's they could of bought the real thing instead.
How many days did it take you to stop laughing?
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-for the money they had spent on converting them to looklike ferrari's they could of bought the real thing instead
What utter twaddle.... how much do you expect to pay for a 355?
If Dr Alex cannot run a 911 for 10 K he certainly isn't going to buy and run a Ferrari.
Don't knock them if you have not tried them, There are a number of different kits and the build is as good as the builder.
I agree that some kits are poor , but why not take a look at www.355kits.com.You can compare details of the kits in photos side by side with the real thing. Particularly with the extreme kit, I repeat that unless you are an extreme Ferrari fanatic you would not be able to distinguish from the real thing from 20 yards away.
The point is that they are much cheaper than the real thing , reliable but attention grabbing and excellent fun.
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How many days did it take you to stop laughing?
Days - more like weeks! We nearly got kicked off their stand as we stood there pointing out all the faults!
What utter twaddle.... how much do you expect to pay for a 355?
Well Genuine UK RHD cars go from approx £35k or Left hookers from about £30k. At least 2 people we spoke to had spent over £25k building their replica cars. Even if your budget won't quite stretch to a F355 you could get a nice 348 for the price of a kitted up MR2.
Don't knock them if you have not tried them, There are a number of different kits and the build is as good as the builder. I agree that some kits are poor , but why not take a look at www.355kits.com.You can compare details of the kits in photos side by side with the real thing. Particularly with the extreme kit, I repeat that unless you are an extreme Ferrari fanatic you would not be able to distinguish from the real thing from 20 yards away.
I'll agree that the extreme kit does look slightly better but it is still no where near comparable to a genuine car. Pretty much all the ones i have seen have poor and uneven panel gaps, low quality fibreglassing on the engine cover and the wheels whilst similar never look quite right.
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I don't really fancy a kit car, to be honest. Some look awful, and some look great- I've always been the type that'd rather have a genuine version of something less! Also not a huge fan of ferraris.
The mention of jap imports got me thinking though- I might be able to stretch to an early imported S2000- any downsides?
Thanks again for your help, everyone.
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Dr Alex Mears
Seat Leon Cupra
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
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Alex,
I would have thought that you could get an early UK sourced S2000 for the sort of money you will have.
The only downsides that I recall from when they were introduced were a drab interior - it is a little plasticky; no way to upgrade the radio - its built into the dash; a trick rear end and dead steering. But I would forgive it everything for that fab four pot singing behind my ear and the legendary Honda reliability.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Blue Haddock and I are going to have to agree to differ I suppose.
10 year old 355's are around £40K in the Autotrader and I certainly would not like to compare the running costs with an MR2.
I only repeat that the kit is as good as the builder and some are much better than others.
I have travelled many times in BiL built replicas and can vouch for the attention they attract , the Dino has a V6 2.9 cologne engine and looks and sounds very nice indeed.
Anyway Dr Alex doesn't want one so yes , an S2000 is a fine choice - its a Honda.
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a 1990s Lotus Elan with the turbo engine (Mark2) goes like the proverbial off a digging instrument. And may not depreciate at all.
You might get an early Lotus Elise but..(too many buts I think).
A E30 BMW M3 might come into your range..
madf
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Blue Haddock and I are going to have to agree to differ I suppose.
Fair enough. If we all thought the same then life would be so boring.
I certainly would not like to compare the running costs with an MR2.
Now there is a really valid point!
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But I would forgive it everything for that fab four pot singing behind my ear and the legendary Honda reliability. --
Do you normally drive while sitting backwards in the car E? As I recall the engine is in the front....
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One of the issues here really is what are your priorities for the car.
Is this about performance / handling ?
Quality ?
Status / head turning ?
Fun ?
I think that the answer depends on why you are considering sports cars.
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You've trampled all over my dreams in this thread, you know. I thought Alex's plan sounded ace until you all came and rained on the flat six powered parade.
I know the Skyline or whatever's a more reliable, "better" car, but it's not the same, is it? Are Porsches really that expensive to keep on the road? I'll just have to find another motoring goal, but it won't be easy... You're all being very mean.
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I did, briefly (a few months) have a 944 to run around in. It was a very nice car, but didn't feel like a 'dream' car. Didn't cost anything (I bought it at auction to sell on - made a small profit).
I think the most "fun" car I ever had was a red Mitsubishi GTO that I owned for about 6 months (bought it cheap with a leaking water pump). It drove very nicely and all the school kids used to point! I really liked the look of that car.
Back in the late '80's I used to have a mate who had a small business restoring Lotus Elans - they were great fun too!
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Well, on the plus side they are very well put together. The switchgear etc feel nice, seats comfortable. Quick (mine was I thinik 265hp), but the handling can bite. Normal service parts such as filters, discs, pads etc are quite cheap, but if anything goes wrong then it getsw very expensive very quickly. That flat 6 layout means that access is difficult, on the twin spark engines some of the spark plugs are almost impossible to access.
Insurance isnt cheap unless you are on a low mileage policy.
I suppose it depends how much you use it. Mine was an everyday car so I put plenty of miles on it, which make the depreciation heavy. Plus the first service after I bought it coming in at £1k makes you aware of costs...
If you only bring it out at weekends for a bit of posing then You can probably keep costs down, but whats the point of having one and not using it ?
Reality is, imho, that the reputation/dream is better than the experience.
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Stupid me confusing rear wheel drive with a rear engine - apologies.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I am very into the 911 thing- (my ideal would be a late 993 if I was much richer), but I just don't have the wedge to put numerous grand aside in case it goes bang. The dilemma is clear- I could afford to get a 911 (reckon on £10-11 for my Leon- they seem to go for about this, although mine has 40k on the odo), but it's a risk. I'd hate to be in the position that I had to get a loan/ big credit card bill to fix the thing- I think I'd maybe start to resent & lose confidence in it. An S2000 (my fave modern choice at the mo) on the other hand would be about the same money, but no horrible surprises at service time (at least very unlikely to be). Insurance might be high (group 20, I think), but I would only do about 5-6k pa, so classic/ limited mileage might save me some cash)
One option already suggested is to keep the Leon. It's a great car, and does everything I could ask. It's just a bit too 'family'- with potential of small people on the horizon in a few years, I want to be silly for a bit. I don't think I can be as silly as buying a 911, though. Possible I'd also miss the reliability/ creature comforts of the Leon.
One small thing- anyone know if you can get a set of golf clubs into the boot of a 911 or S2000?
Any more input gratefully recieved!!
Alex.
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Dr Alex Mears
Seat Leon Cupra
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
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You shouldn't have any trouble with either, as long as you restrict yourself to a compact carry bag. I have get 2 sets of clubs into a 911 (one on back seat, one in bonnet).
If you have a big bag and a trolly, you will certainly struggle.
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Ahhh....it's fascinating to see what lawyers and doctors have to worry about when choosing their cars :-)
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Ok Ok so the golf is a bit of a stereotype!
Actually for me, the most important thing for me is to be able to get my fishing rods into the car. Broken down, most of them are at least 6 feet long. This rules out saloons whose rear seats do not fold down (or which at least do not have a "ski hole")
At the moment, my Bora is parked outside the office and has got all my golf clobber in as well as a full set of Barbel fishing gear. Well, it pays to be prepared...
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One small thing- anyone know if you can get a set of golf clubs into the boot of a 911
It's funny. You kind of find ways to wedge the things you need into the space you have available.
If that's an issue, though, steer clear of the 4WD versions as the front differential takes up a lot of boot space.
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A quick flick through autotrader tells me that my Leon is probably only worth £9500, not alot more (53 reg, silver,will have 45k on the clock, couple small scratches). This really puts the S2000 off the menu, as the cheapest I've seen is nearly £11k.
So, back to my original question- interesting alternatives that won't cripple me if they go wrong.
I'm thinking an interesting classic may be the way forward. Something with good parts availability, but unusual. Any ideas?
Thanks again,
Alex.
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Dr Alex Mears
Seat Leon Cupra
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
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Interesting classic for almost everyday use? Not the best idea, even for regular driving I would have thought.
best something english so parts availability is good.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Good parts availability but unusual? A Porsche 911?
madf
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On a related line but ewasier to insure and repair....
Karmann Ghia - not english but all VW parts and very attractive esp in convertible form.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Went through the same thing as I do 30K miles a year & brought a 944 Lux, now had it for 4+ months and know I made the right decision! No cash tied up in expensive motors and loads of specialists. As for spares I can get bits for the Porsche or TR7 next day, some modern motors take 3 days.
Jim
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We're talking about replacing a 2-year old Leon Cupra, note "Cupra" - not exactly a slow car by modern standards. I just have a feeling that a somewhat used 911 may be a bit of a let-down, other than enabling you to enjoy the "Porsche experience".
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apm
My neighbour is an experienced dealer in used Porsches and has looked at this thread. He reckons you should stay with your Cupra. Guess what he drives - a Seat Leon Cupra.
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