Whils I was at the dealer regarding the air con condensation, I asked about the cause of the slightly uneven tickover, which occurs sometimes (mainly when starting from cold). It tends to run in little surges, basically, and is more noticeable when the air con is on.
It was suggested that the particle filter may be coming to the end of its life (the car has now done almost 43K miles) and that it could be the cause of the uneven tickover. The car seems to be running OK otherwise, the fuel consumption having improved recently since I fitted a new air flow pressure sensor to the turbo intake (the previous one having been broken).
Does this dianosis sound feasible? There have been no fault messages on the car and it has been checked out on diagnostic equipment. I did have to have the fuel additive replenished ahead of time and I am wondering if the same will apply to the particle filter, which is due for replacing at 50k miles.
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Sounds plausible enough - although my 2.2 has done 50,500 and is still on the same filter. (Dealer forgot to order in time for my 50,000 mile service so will have to take it back in a few weeks time!)
Haven't had any problems with tickover - although recently, I haven't heard the eolys pump cutting in after a top up of diesel - which is something I always heard without fail before. I've been wondering if the fluid is finished - but there again, I've had no warning message. Did yours come up with a message when the fluid ran out?
Graeme
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Yes, I got a warning at about 38K miles. Ours is an auto, so it is obviously using more fuel, so I put it down to that factor, which must surely affect how much additive is used.
BTW, how much have you been quoted for a new filter?
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I was quoted £680 for filter + noxious fluid and it is not due until 72,000 miles This is for a Peugeot 307 Hdi 1600cc. There has been a problem with the supply of either the filters and/or the fluid and in June 2005 307s were being delivered with a different exhaust system with no filter. Might be worth spending £680 on a new exhaust without a filter?
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Although I don't claim extensive knowledge of these engines I can't see how the filter could affect tickover - certainly not in a way that causes 'surges'. Sounds to me like whatever is controlling the idle speed needs to be looked at or there is some 'load cycling' going on (alternator or aircon cutting in and out).
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As I said in the first post, it is more noticeable with the air con on. It was checked for a fault by the chap who services it and he found nothing. He did say it was unusual for a C5 to show up no faults at all! The variation in idle speed is only small, however, causing a slight flickering of the rev counter needle.
The technician I spoke to a the dealers said that, if the filter was on the way to be being blocked up, it could affect the running of the engine. Getting the filter very hot, by running the car at high speed for some time, helps to purge the filter, apparently.
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The filter is meant to clean itself automatically during normal running. When it decides it needs cleaning the nasty liquid is injected and the whole lot burned off in the filter. On my 307 it sometimes does it when I park and the cooling fans sit thundering away for 10 minutes to cool the engine bay while the process takes place. 2 days ago I found a link to the site which explained it all but I can't relocate it right now
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Found some text which explains it. Also adds that the filter can be cleaned by the dealer.
Basically, PSA?s particle filter (PF) is a porous silicon carbide unit, comprising passageways which has a propensisity to easily trap and retain particles from the exhaust gas flow. Before the filter surface is fully occupied, these carbon / hydrocarbon particles should be burnt up, becoming CO2 and water and leave the filter accompanying the exhaust gas flow. We call this process as regeneration.
Normally regeneration takes place at 550° C. However, the main problem is: this temperature is not obtainable under normal conditions. PSA tells us normally the temperature varies between 150° and 200°C when the car is driving in town, as the exhaust gas is not in full flow.
Luckily, the new common-rail injection technology helps solving this problem. Gifted by its high-pressure, precise injection during a very short period, the common-rail system can introduce a "post-combustion" by injecting small amount of fuel during expansion phase. This increases the exhaust flow temperature to around 350°C.
Then, a specially designed oxidising catalyst converter locating near the entrance of the particle filter unit will combust the remaining unburnt fuel coming from the "post-combustion". This raise the temperature further to 450° C.
The last 100°C required is fulfilled by adding an addictive called Eolys to the fuel.
Eolys lowers the operating temperature of particle burning to 450° C, now regeneration occurs. The liquid-state additive is store in a small tank and added to the fuel by a pump. The PF unit needs to be cleaned at dealerships every 80,000 km by high-pressure water, to get rid of the deposits resulting from the additive.
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Here we have this statement about cleaning the PF at dealerships, which is what it says in the car's maintenance schedule, but which, as far as I know, can't be done at a dealership.
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Certainly the filter is a very expensive way of paying a few £s less road tax per year!
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It will make these cars very undesirable when they get older. Who is going to want to pay out out for a new filter on a car that is worth very little. The price of the services at the main dealer don't bear thinking about either.
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I had a main dealer annual/12k mile service for £107 (Pug 307). I was well pleased with that. What about having it done in Calais during a liquid refreshment run?
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The 50K service on a C5 2.0 HDI is almost £500 (I don't know if the 2.2 HDI is any different). I don't know if that includes the filter or not. Even a reconditioned one is expensive. At least I won't have to have the fuel additive topped up again so soon.
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I spoke to an authorised citroen service agent about the price of a C5 2.0 HDI 4th annual service at 50k, he said £130.
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I was under the impression that the 2.0 HDi didn't have a particulate filter and hence should not have such a high service cost as the 2.2HDi
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I got a 'quick quote' when I booked the service of £440 (that would have included the 50,000 miles service. ) Unfortunately, when I collected the car they had only done the service because they didn't have the filter in stock! So that came to £161. I suppose that leaves a figure of about £280 when I go back for the filter.
Graeme
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My 2001 year 2.2 HDi 50k service was £474.65 plus vat. Prior to this I had complained of uneven running at around 2000rpm (not pulling cleanly) and was assured that once the particulate filter was replaced at 50k miles it would be fine.
Now at 56k miles and still uneven pulling! Any thoughts gratefully rec'd.
Only other problem I've had is failure of central door locking (3 doors in succession) just managed to get them sorted under warranty, problem is that unless you check each door you do not neceesarily know that they havn't locked!
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I posted on the FAP/Eolys issue earlier this year, but my search function isnt working.
Briefly: the FAP-Eolys combination applies to the 2.2 diesel only.
You should ask for a reconditioned filter, not a new one - this chopped £150-200 off the price in my case.
The fluid/filter change is often excluded from the servicing schedule, as it is due at around 50k but may vary. It also keeps the published running costs low on fleet calculators.
Note also: the belt change is normally due at 100k on the 2.2hdi
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I am happy to report that the uneven tickover seems to have disappeared as suddenly as it appeared. I have no explanation why this should have happened but there is no sign of it, whether the engine is hot or cold, air con on or off.
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