I am the proud owner of a Skoda Octavia TDI 90 which as all the surveys say you can't beat for reliability, build quality, low running costs, economy etc. After 80,000 miles in 6 years I am looking for a car with all the Octavia's virtues but a better ride quality (much better if possible) and a bit more performance to cope with mountain roads etc. I have thought of a Superb and am lining up a 24-hour test drive. Also I have thought of a Fabia vRS 130 or a Corolla 1.4D. Air-con is a must for summer holidays in Europe. I have discounted the Citroen C5 on the grounds of poor reliability but is this fair? Come on you owners of these cars and give me your opinions.
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The C5 is an exceptionally reliable diesel (engine) The rest of it can have the odd glitch - but these are probably far fewer nowadays than when I bought my one over 3 years ago. Early models had teething troubles (back axle eg) that had to be ironed out under warranty. My one was properly sorted by a good dealer and has been virtually fault free ever since. The only major problem I've had (and only actual breakdown) was a blown turbo! Apparently this is practically unknown on low mileage HDIs and it's certainly not a weak spot on C5s - just bad luck in my case. Again, it was covered by warranty so nothing more than nuisance value for me.
Also - avoid automatics(and HPI petrols) - troublesome.
Now on the plus side.....the diesel C5s are brilliant value for money (if bought 'nearly new' and kept for years especially) Comfort is excellent, legroom is exceptional. The suspension gives no problems whatsoever. The HDIs (especially 2.2) are amongst the best diesels you can get - period. Equipment levels are high. Economy is good and noise levels very low with superb refinement.The engines themselves are pretty bombproof.
I've covered 50,000 miles and haven't spent a penny on out of warranty repairs yet.
A good Citroen, well sorted, properly maintained, sensitively driven will give many years of pleasure. A bad one, lacking all of the above will be pure misery!
There you go - hopefully not too biased!
Graeme
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Saw a black C5 estate the other day.
An impressive beast...:-)
Agree about the PSA diesel units as will, no doubt, Ford owners.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Thought I had the only black C5 (hatch)ever made!! Mind you, I did catch sight of a black C5 estate too one day. Unfortunately, it was parked outside an undertakers....
Drop dead gorgeous?
Graeme :-)
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Agree about the PSA diesel units as will, no doubt, Ford owners. - - - - - - - - - - -
The 110 2.0 and 136 2.2 are Ok though the later Ford/PSA 2.0 is much better 20% more torque than the 2.2.
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>> >> Agree about the PSA diesel units as will, no doubt, Ford >> owners. >> - - - - - - - - - - - The 110 2.0 and 136 2.2 are Ok though the later Ford/PSA 2.0 is much better 20% more torque than the 2.2.
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Torque outputs of the respective engines on the Citroen UK site show only a 2lb ft advantage for the 2 litre engine, which is less than a 1% increase.
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I had Citroens from 1979 to 1999 (GS(2)/2CV(2)/BX(2)/ZX) and always found them comfortable and reliable - I do drive sympathetically i.e. I never give cars a hard time. I would have bought a Xantia had the dealer not laughed at me when I asked for a pre-reg for £10K in 1999 before Citroen started discounting. Which? magazine basically says don't buy one but shows it as pretty reliable with only 5% of 0-2 year-old C5s breaking down.
Perhaps I should find a good dealer and give one a test drive.
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My neighbours had the first C5 I ever saw and once the ongoing problem with rear suspension collapsing overnight (leaving the tops of the wheels buried deep in to the arches) was solved, they had the reliable and comfortable car they hoped for when they purchased it.
To my eyes (literally) the C5 has one problem though; it is HIDEOUS to look at. The facelift has just made matters worse - as is so often the case with facelifts - removing all traces of what little purity of design the car was born with and ending up looking contrived. If I owned one I'd never sneak a glance in shop windows as I drove past! ;-)
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To my eyes (literally) the C5 has one problem though; it is HIDEOUS to look at. The facelift has just made matters worse - as is so often the case with facelifts - removing all traces of what little purity of design the car was born with and ending up looking contrived. If I owned one I'd never sneak a glance in shop windows as I drove past! ;-)
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Most people prefer the look of the latest C5, me included.
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I bought a C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive in January 2002 and it was so good that I bought a 2.0 HDi estate for my wife. Both cars have been fantastically reliable.
The 2.2 had a hydraulic leak on the steering when I collected it from the dealer and I've had to replace the front suspension spheres and power steering pipe but other than that it's been faultless. The reliability surveys show that about 48% of repairs are to suspensions caused by traffic calming and potholes on the roads, so I don't blame Citroen for my problem.
My wife's estate had a problem with the rear window not opening and needed the comms 2000 unit (the centre for the multiplex wiring) replaced under warranty. These were minor niggles and were painless.
The 2.2 is quieter and more relaxing with cruise control, climate control and satnav. It works brilliantly for long distances in France and Spain.
The 2.0 HDi feels quite lively, the clutch is lighter and it's almost as quick in day to day use, but not quite as smooth.
HJ is right about the water dripping into the boot when the hatch is open but you learn to anticipate it and open the tailgate slowly so that the collected rain water falls outside the hatch opening.
Both our cars were upgraded on Citroen's rolling programme when they went in for service.
I think that the negativity about fleet cars like the C5 and Vectra is generated by company drivers (who aspire to BMW 3 series) who don't want to be driving the car they have been given. In contrast, Skodas are mostly bought by private buyers, thus accounting for the better customer satisfaction ratings.
We spent our own hard-earned on the C5s and think they are great. I usually get bored with my cars and change after 2 years but after 3 and a half years with the C5 I'm struggling to find something that would offer more.
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At around 13000 miles per annum I would think hard about a diesel, unless you actually prefer the driving experience to a petrol engined car. I have a Mondeo diesel and cover about 20000 and now wonder if it was worth it. 4p dearer at the moment, 6p during the winter and more frequent servicing plus dearer parts and a higher initial price is making me wish I had gone back to a sparker.
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My TDCi uses perhaps 25% less fuel than a 2.0 petrol (48 v 36 mpg), over 20000 miles that is, say, 1800 litres @ 90p/litre = £1620 rather than 2400 litres at 85p/litre = £2040 thus saving £420, 12500 main dealer service only costs £150, say £300 over 20000 miles hence the diesel pays for it's own services and road tax compared to the petrol. Not to mention the stonking torque etc.
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Praise of the Citroen C5 interested me enough to go their site.
Finished up with a review on the C3 diesel which doesnt make good reading.
tinyurl.co.uk/54u0
Poor Giles Henry Sugden must have aged considerbaly since he bought his...
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Nick, if you've been happy with your current Octavia apart from power and ride quality, and you're not ruling out choosing another Skoda, why not take the new Octavia for a test drive? According to reviews I've read, the ride/handling setup is better than that of the Superb thanks to the new suspension gubbins at the rear (same multilink suspension as in the new Golf, A3, Altea, Leon ...), plus you can have a bit more power from the 1.9 105 bhp TDi, or a lot more from the 2.0 140 bhp.
Sorry I can't comment on Citroens, but I can say I'm very happy with the Seat Leon TDi 110 I've had for nearly four years. You mention the 1.4 Corolla - for comparison, my dad has just bought a brand new Cordoba with the 1.4 TDi, which is quite nippy for such a small engine - I had a short spin in it and it's a nice car to flick around corners. He comes from a lifetime of driving 1.4 and 1.6 petrol engines, and was well impressed with the car over the long distance drive up to visit me (185 miles).
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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Agree with Andymc - try the new Octavia with the 2.0 diesel in a version which doesn't have very low profile tyres and sports suspension. It's a different car to the one you have now.
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At around 13000 miles per annum I would think hard about a diesel, unless you actually prefer the driving experience to a petrol engined car. I have a Mondeo diesel and cover about 20000 and now wonder if it was worth it. 4p dearer at the moment, 6p during the winter and more frequent servicing plus dearer parts and a higher initial price is making me wish I had gone back to a sparker.
It's not always about cost though - personally fuel costs don't really matter to me, yet I still wish my current car was diesel not petrol. As good as the 2.0 16v engine I have, peak torque is at 4000rpm and it doesn't suit my driving style.
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Nobody has mentioned the Rover 75. One of the most comfortable cars on the road and it has the fantastic BMW diesel engine.
But of course there's the small issue of Rover no longer existing...
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Xileno's right. I think you should think about one of the last 75 CDT(i)'s. If ride is all-important.
The new Skoda Octavia is a consideration, I suppose, due to your last car, but from what I know of Golf-IV owners, who now have Golf-V (albeit the 'GT') the V is firmer riding.
I'd probably look to the French. Though the Laguna has it's issues, I'd expect most have been ironed out in the last four years, and they were relatively cheap once you haggled with a dealer, or looked in a car supermarket...with the facelifted version now available, the last of the old-look one's ought to be a steal.
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Saab 9-5 is also worth looking at. Wonderful seats, it came top in one of the Autoexpress yearly comparisons for comfort. Brother has one and the seats have loads of adjustments.
I think I would go for the C5 though, better value for money.
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Whatis often not taken to account with modern diesels is how quiet they are when cruising at motorway speeds. The PSA 2.2 HDI is an extremely smooth and quiet engine.
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