I just posted Britain's Fastest Car in the site news. Available from March at just £31,495. Obviously the heading is contentious, so let's all have a nice healthy argument about it. (And hopefully some input from people who have actually driven one. or its previous incarnation.)
HJ
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As the NRA say in the US, "Guns don't kill people, people do", I would say the same about this car. A car does not drive at an excessive, or dangerous speed, people do.
I *love* to have big, exotic and fact cars. I have rarely use dthem at their maximum. My Firehawk hit flat-out maybe twice in its life, and both of those were in the Nevada desert.
I should not be prevented from owning a car simply because either others think I shouldn't or others can'tbe trusted with it.
However, a different and/or additional driving test for high performance vehicles would seem like a good idea. They're still high performance, even if one never goes beyong 70mph.
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Naah mate. RUF 996 Turbo 2, 520bhp 0-60 3.4secs all the way upto well over 200mph. £120k ish. Bargain ;)
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The technology and drive are no doubt awesome . . . but does it HAVE to look like that? Or is the Backroom news shot particularly unflattering?
Stu.
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HJ
Would it be fair to infer that where a country limits the maximum road speed then the interest turns to acceleration?.
I am thinking of the USA where drag racing and hot-rods maybe flowed from the 55 mph national limit, and the popularity of hot hatches in the UK.
Regards
B
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Fantastic car,top speed pretty irrelevant and in Japan the car is speed limited to 180KPH/112MPH.Personal thing but ive allways prefered the drive of the Subaru WRX over the Mitso Evos,not much else comes close to either,especially for the money,and so easy to drive,your granny could use them for shopping.
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when they limit in Japan, is it simply a speed limiter or does it muff up either the acceleration and/or the gearing ?
M.
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no just a liniter - i was in a friend's Skyline in Tokyo and there was nothing wrong with the acceleration save for the Kamakazi-like driver
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The speed limiter only kills the engine at 180KPH,just makes it stutter and you slow down,its not revs related so in theory you could do 180KPH in 2nd gear and it would cut out.
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My bike was a Jap import, speed limiter was a box of electric tricks, did not affect acceleration just top speed. Was unplugged when it came to the UK so it could hit its maximum.
Phil
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had a mate who had an evo6 and it took him 25 mins to empty a full tank of petrol when having a jaunt in Germany. No doubt a good car but pig ugly, always being stolen and "quite" expensive at the pumps.
And is that little button on the dash that dumps water into the turbo really necessary or doesn't it already go fast enough?
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I don't think you can have something that's literally unbelievable otherwise you would not believe it. Almost literally unbelievable perhaps?
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> I don't think you can have something that's literally unbelievable otherwise >you would not believe it. Almost literally unbelievable perhaps?
You're almost correct. "literally unbelievable" means "something which cannot be believed". Therefore it is not "you would not believe it" it is more correctly "you could not believe it".
"The handling and roadholding of these cars is literally unbelievable, and that's what puts them ahead of any roadgoing Ferrari or even the quickest motorbikes."
This could be correct if what was meant was that the differential between two cars was that something unbelievable was said about one, but nothing unbelievable was said about the other, or indeed that the same fact could be believed about the other cars which are not "put ahead".
It couldn't be regarded as correct if the point was, or at least was intended to be, that the stated fact was correct about one and not the other and was very suprising.
Mark.
p.s. I'm in the office and really, really bored. Can you tell ?
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What about that motorbike engined thingy that Vicky B-H drove recently on Top Gear. I can't remember the figures but it was pretty whacky and they were going to buld a two engined version. Can anybody remind me ?
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You can go a lot quicker to 60mph for the money, the car is just too heavy to stick with Westerfield/Caterham type cars. A Peugeot Mi-16 engine can be tuned to near 300bhp if you can afford it. That would give acceleration well under 4 sec for a fraction of the price. You could stick it in a stripped out 309 to save money and stil have a car that wieghed only 800kg, so thats 375 bhp per litre. If the surface is really smooth the trick suspension of the evo wont make much difference, and you would have 20k to spend on something else. But who would want to be seen in a 309! I wouldnt care but many people wouldnt be seen dead in one.
Seriously though, has anyone seen any G force figures for this car?
Ben
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Ben 0-60 doesn't mean much - 0-100 is a better test. Caterams and Westies Elises etc aint that quick over 60, brick wall aerodynamics n that. Unless they've got a daft engine in them and they're called TVRs.
A 309 with 300 brake would wheelspin a tad, have u seen the French film Taxi with the 406. Super cool.
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Thats a good point about the TVR's. I remember reading i think in Autocar magasine that the TVR's are quite a bit quicker than the new 911 Turbo to 100.
Admittedly, 300bhp in a front drive car is going to be tricky off the lights to say the least. But if you stick 300bhp in a Westfield or something of similar weight 700-800kg with 4 wheel drive it will whip an Evo at any speed. Top speed will be almost the same- ie over 160mph. If you could get hold of the transmission Peugeot used in the 80's in the Turbo Mi-16 205 Rally cars, you could build quite an interesting car!
Ben
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Caterham R500 - 0-60 3.4 seconds and 0-100 8.8 seconds. From 230 bhp (500 bhp / tonne).
As a Caterham driver I haven't found any problems in the 60-100 mph region. Over 100 is where it struggles on to a top speed of about 120mph. Mines not even a very powerful or extreme version. I think Elises aren't that quick up to 100 due to much more weight than a Seven. Also Seven type cars find 0-60 a problem due to off the line traction. Adding weight (fat passenger) gives better off the line traction to most high power sevens but will dent it at higher speeds. Not sure how my missus would feel about bailing out when I hit 20 mph though.
I suspect my Seven would beat a lot of Evo drivers in a 0 to 60. I'd just challenge a best of 5 - after a couple of runs their clutches would be knackered - lot of stress spinning 4 wide tyres....
Piers
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Drag racing and hot rods go back to the 40's. The US 55 mph speed limit was implemented in reponse to the 1973 oil crisis.
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No consulting today then.
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It is unbelievable. All your experience tells you that you cannot believe a car can do what this car can do.
HJ
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Honest John wrote:
>
> It is unbelievable. All your experience tells you that you
> cannot believe a car can do what this car can do.
I think that's a big worry with cars like this, they plainly have abilities far in excess of the average driver and lull you into thinking it can do anything. I'm sure I'd be in a hedge before I realised I'd gone into a corner too fast in a car like the Evo.
Case in point, a neighbour with a Subaru WRX and a knackered front end claimed the car 'aquaplaned' into the barriers on a long bend joining a motorway. It didn't seem to occur to him that the car might not have infinite grip or that he was driving beyond his abilities. No, it was some magic term that clearly he couldn't be expected to take the blame for.
However, I did once get my hands on a Impreza McRae and it was ridiculously fast, almost like a video game. Can't even begin to imagine what the EVO 300 will do, but in all honesty, I can't see what use it would be to me on todays congested roads. But if anyone has a spare lying around, I might have some space around the back of the house ;-)
Lee.
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I have been fortunate enough to drive both the Evo 6 and the New Evo 7.
The new Evo has noticable improvements over the old version mainly a more composed chassis allowing smoother progress thru high speed twisting corners.
Having also driven a Skyline/Supra/NSX/XJ220/Lister Storm/Zonda/DB7/RUF 996 and many other high performance cars i would say the Evo 7 is excellent value for money.
But if like me you cannot afford the real thing ,just spend £35 on GT3 for the playstation 2. (you will be able to drive all of the above).
:))
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What other manufacturers could ever build anything like these Japanese exotics?especially for the price,even the UK price.
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Ben's post is very theoretical. Just try approaching a ninety degree steep downhill right hander which is swiftly followed by a yump at over sixty miles an hour in any other car. Either you will chicken out or the car will.
HJ
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As usual, HJ is right. In the posts i wrote above i simply wished to show that in terms of raw straight line speed, the Evo isnt incredible. Raw speed and raw grip potential are governed by several fundamental physical laws. On perfectly flat smooth tracks you can even make cars like old XR2i fiestas lap extreamly quickly, as anyone who has been in or seen a full race prep 700kg one driven on the limit. But this sort of car is useless on the road because the syspension is not particuarly capable at maintaining optimum camber and caster seting throughout its travel. Hence even if the suspension was not so hard as to allow some movement, it wouldnt be able to cope with bumps and road camber changes, which would seriosuly unsettle the handling.
I meant rhetorically to imply that the great thing about the Evo is the way in which it deploys and copes with the power. In engineering terms it is a great achievement to build a car of that weight which has huge amonts of grip, and great predictable handling. Almost all cars on the road are a compromise between grip/handling and ride comfort. Manufacturers choose a point where they beleive the correct ballance to be, the point at which one would have to forgo significant ride comfort for small improvements in grip. The evo i went in wasnt that uncomfortable or difficult to drive, yet still was so near the limit you felt little had been lost. Designing a car that has a high threshold of grip in itself isnt that difficult. But to make a car that has balanced handling, in all kinds of conditions, that is still so near to this theoratical limit is increadible. One reason why the Evo is so great is that it rubbishes many of the arguments for the superiority of the mid-engined layout. I think if the engineers that designed this car had wanted they could have made it a lot faster still, but then it would have been too brutal for the average buyer, and this would of spoiled the whole concept. I dont know much about these cars, but if its much like some of editions of the Impreza Turbo some basic modifications would yeild some big power increases IF you wanted them. Many tuning companies will offer performance "improements", but i bet none will retain the overall balance of the car.
I just think many people i see lucky enought to be able to afford to drive around in them dont appreciate the qualities of these cars, "upgrading" to harder and harder springs and bigger and bigger turbos. Some would be just as happy in an escort rs turbo if it had the status!
I imagine most people reading the above know all of this already , and think im just stating the obvious, but I think its a fiar point to make that the cutting edge of outright speed potential of road based car design hasnt increased all that much, but that these levels of performance are being achieved with far fewer compromises. For example modern hot hatches like the 206 Gti, for which i have read unfavourable reviews comparing it to the antedeluvian 205 1.9 gti, achieve similar levels of grip with about 20-30% lower spring rates.
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I used to drive a 200km stright strip every week.
Once I wasn't in the standard 2.0 Sierra, but in a 635CSi.
I threw the beast along, as I "knew the road", but and one stage (on a straight) started to get a wobble, and glanced down to the dash and saw 240kmh indicated...
Sorry. Time to realise that I'm a mere mortal, and don't have the reaction times and knowledge to cope. I'm humble enough to accept that.
(Another time, I was fortunate enough to be driven on the road by a Mr Scheckter. Suddenly I realised how little I knew about driving cars.)
Enough said
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Pete
Re the two motorcycle engined car. Try www.merlininternational.co.uk.
Click on Merlin Products and then on Tiger cars. Think thats the one you are looking for.
Andrew.
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Mark (Brazil) wrote:
> "p.s. I'm in the office and really, really bored. Can you tell?"
¿Qué pasa, tío?
Voy a animar la cosa un poco con un mensaje algo travieso en el botón Edit. ¡Espero que no me tiren!
You'd better back me up Don M.
Stu.
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Brill wrote:
>
> Mark (Brazil) wrote:
>
> > "p.s. I'm in the office and really, really bored. Can you
> tell?"
>
>
>
> ¿Qué pasa, tío?
>
> Voy a animar la cosa un poco con un mensaje algo travieso en
> el botón Edit. ¡Espero que no me tiren!
>
> You'd better back me up Don M.
>
> Stu.
Mark must be really bored if he's got to learn Spanish as well as Portuguese "like wot is spoke" in Brazil. So, to help Brill (and Mark, if he doesn't speak Spanish and has translated Brill's message already!) here goes as best I can(E&OE): "O que acontece tio? Vou encorajar a coisa um pequeno com um algo mensagem de "mischievous" no botão Edita. Eu que nao espero jogam-me!"
Ronnie (no *not* Ronaldo - that's Peter Mandelson's Brazilian friend)
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or even...
O que está acontecendo, Tio
Eu estou indo liven coisas acima de um pouco com um gracejo sobre a tecla da edição. Eu espero que do`t me joguem para fora.
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"The handling and roadholding of these cars ... puts them ahead of any roadgoing Ferrari or even the quickest motorbikes."
So long as you're the only car in the road. A bike is always at the front at traffic lights; can overtake into a gap 3 foot wide; straight line roundabouts and filter in any kind of traffic. And it'll do 75 miles to the gallon and 0-100 in 11 seconds.
Oh, and it's fun to use.
Where car's score is an ability to tow & carry People/Kit/Luggage.
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Flawed logic on the extra weight effecting top spead, it doesn't. At top speed energy (power) input=energy loss. At top speeds this is nearly all wind resistance plus some rolling and engine friction. None of these components are effected by weight of the vehicle.
Think about TGV train or jumbo's really heavy yet really fast.
Increased weight will make it harder to accelrate, decelerate and change direction, hence why caterham ect are really nippy. You could double the weight of your caterham give it an aerodynamic blobby shape and it would have a higher top speed.
James
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And call it the 21 and only sell a handfull.....
The idea of weight having very little affect on top speed simplified down to 'Trains are heavy and they go fast' is great. I wish I could have used answers like that in my engineering exams!
Piers
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I thought we'd have a bit of fun with this thread. We did.
HJ
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Nobody's really come back on my observation that a restriction on legal top speed seems to generate an interest in reaching that speed ASAP.
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I think in America the type of roads they have, long and very straight, is a factor in explaining the interest in straight line speed.
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Ronnie,
Whilst I appreciate the ffort, I live in Brazil and am fluent in Portuguese. Prior to that I lived elsewhere in South America and I am fluent in Spanish - as it happens, my wife is a Spanish speaker, not an English speaker.
I get by in a few other languages also. Nonetheless, I appreciate the thought.
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Mark
Humble apologies! Like I said on Friday, I suspected you probably didn't need much help from me - I should have guessed that the South American authority on the Freelander must be multi-lingual! On that subject, I have had enormous fun winding up my Freelander-driving friends by showng them the recent exchange of messages, including one who only ordered a V6 on Thursday.
Ronnie
PS What's the Spanish for "She who must be obeyed" or is there no such concept in Spanish culture ....?
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> PS What's the Spanish for "She who must be obeyed" or is
> there no such concept in Spanish culture ....?
In both the acronym for the literal translation would be - EQDSO
With the actual translation as...
Spanish:
ella que debe ser obedecida
Portuguese:
ela que deve ser obedecida
That obviously doesn't work so well, and insofar as I know they don`t have a slang phrase meaning something similar, although I`ll ask.
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btw, as for the Freelander, look for an old thread called "not an objective test" or something like that.
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It is well known surely that the fastest vehicle in the world is a white diesel Astra Van in the outside lane of the M3?
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Pulchra sunt ubera quea paululum superigemente.
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Try "Cier es dormia con migo esta noche!" - my spelling might be atrocious but say that to a "chicana" in a club in Magaluf and you will either get;
a) Lucky
b) Smacked
c) Both
d) Extradited
e) Ignored
Nothing to do with cars I admit.
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> "Cier es dormia con migo esta noche!"
you have no idea how long I stared at this before it clicked...
"queires dormir conmigo esta noche ?"
or
"do you want to sleep with me tonight ?"
Bloody hell Guy, next time you are going to a spanish speaking country allow me to translate a few phrases for you. Probably improve your holiday, no end.
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>Pulchra sunt ubera quea paululum superigemente
Which language is this supposed to be ? I am assuming its going to be phoenitcally spelt, but I need a clue.
(Given how long it took me to understand the other one)
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My Hovercraft is full of eels.
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It's Latin and my Latin is as bad as my Spanish! It's about as phoenetic as one can get after a few too many Amstels.
...for quea read quae.
I'll give you a clue - it has something to do with the "Magaluf" situation and would be used as a compliment to a young lady although you don't find many that speak Latin on a booze cruise in Spain.
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