hi guys new to the site but saw a topic on caravans, DO YOU REALLY HATE US???????
I have been towing caravans for the past 15 years and have just updated to a 18' and I like to think that I am considerate enought to pull over when I can to let all the frustrated motorists fly by, I live in the great land down under and we have a great following of folk on the road we have done our bit now its time to enjoy. so on behalf of all those who tow please be patient we will pull over when we can after all we are in no hurry
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DO YOU REALLY HATE US???????
By and large - Yes!
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Ah but you have vast expanses of open road with plenty of room to overtake and probably have the sense to tow with a beefy off-roader rather than a clapped out Mini Metro.
Can you see why in Britain caravanners are not our favourite road users.
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such a heated topic and now nobody cares?
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Most drivers towing a caravan are well aware of what is happening behind them and wait for a suitable place to temporarily pull over to allow faster traffic through.
But your own great land is very, very much larger than the UK and probably has comparatively few vehicles outside the main residential areas.
I don't think the majority of UK drivers actually hate caravan owners but, if you are in a hurry to get to an appointment, it can prove frustrating to be held up...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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By the way ozziefozz, does the name Jeremy Clarkson ring a bell?
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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no sorry and I do see your point but wether here or in the uk we are all entitlled to a get away some can afford a 5 star hotels others a caravan
me can afford both but prefere the caravan
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You've presumably seen what a lot of British roads look like and how busy they are. You must be able to appreciate that being stuck at 35 behind a small plastic building is hugely frustrating when either you have to be somewhere or you want to enjoy a spirited drive on a good road.
If you pull over to let motorists past then I doff my cap to you. Unfortunately I've *never* seen it happen in 10 years of motoring in the UK, so over here you'd be in the vast minority.
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I was born in leeds and stayed there till I was 15 and I do know british roads narrow blind windy but we have them here too and its all about being polite bending to other road user and I do that
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Caravans! Where to start...
Most of the back roomers comments are completly true but I think the biggest issue and by far the poorest standard of driving comes from those underpowered car drivers trying to pull a 2 ton plastic house in a 1.6 litre engine car (sorry about the length of that sentance but i couldnt stop myself)
I have seen some good driving from the guys and gals who understand the importance of power to weight ratios. A good well powered 4by4 which has the stability in mass and power is required if a caravan is to be towed safely, at the right speed for all road conditions. Now I know you 2.0 litre Audi drivers out there with your flat caps on the parcel shelf will shout "My car is fine for towing my 18foot Deluxe Plastic House" however your car has not been built to pull such a thing and when you try we all get stuck behind you or nearly side swiped as you snake doen the middle lane at 60MPH.
That in my humble opinion is the real issue! Perhaps we need some legislation that requires a certain engine / weight size for any car which is to tow a caravan?
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\" Keep doing the same old thing, youll get the same old thing, try something different today!\"
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As along time caravanner I sympathise with other motorists who hate caravanners as I have seen some real dangers when it comes to towing a caravan. As mentioned above, a car that's too small is one of the problems but by far the biggest problem is lack of training/experience. I had the advantage of HGV lessons and a job which gave me experience of towing trailers before venturing out on the road with a caravan. IMO there should be a test or at least a minimum X hours training (with a certificate) before anyone is allowed to tow anything. I would gladly take it. BTW I have a small 2 berth 13cwt caravan towed by a Mk3 2.5 V6 Mondeo.
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IMO there should be a test or at least a minimum X hours training (with a certificate) before anyone is allowed to tow anything.
There is for drivers who passed there test after a certain year but i believe you only have to take it if the weight ratios of the trailer to tow vehicle are going to be below a certain amount
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Im a student ive got time!!!
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>>DO YOU REALLY HATE US???????
Yes and no. Or should that be no and yes. Everyone has a right to use our roads provided that they are legally entitled to. We should all be more tolerant to others, whether it is a slow moving caravan or lorry. Even all of these slow vehicles eventually reach their destination - they have just taken a little longer to do it. Should we complain that their schedule for arrival does not tally with a busy life style?
On the other hand I do get annoyed when a caravanner does travel exceedingly slowly and is oblivious to other road users needs. I agree there are too many underpowered cars towing oversized caravans. There are also many badly balanced caravans that causes snaking at low speeds - it always makes me laugh when I hear a traffic report that a caravan has overturned as I believe it was their own fault.
So what is my experience. I have never towed a caravan, but I have towed heavily laden box trailers and boats up to 22 feet long. Both are similar to a caravan in many ways. When I was a boy (early 1960's), my parents had a caravan and we went all over the UK and through France to Spain. After retirement they bought a caravan again and travelled the UK again, but no longer due to age.
So ozziefozz enjoy your caravan and continue being considerate to other road users.
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>>So ozziefozz enjoy your caravan and continue being considerate to other road users.
Amen to that. I don't have a caravan, nor do I particularly want one.
However, unlike so many others in this country, neither do I believe that either gives me the right to ban yours nor tell you that you are ridiculous for having/wanting one.
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To answer the original question: yes, by and large everyone hates caravanners.
The following theory was once explained to me by a work colleague. I can find no fault with it, but please bear in mind it applies to the UK; I have no doubt that the situation in .au is rather different:
Nearly all the places caravanners go, there are already B&Bs and/or static caravan sites.
Caravans cost a fortune new. They then have to be insured, maintained, stored, etc. Plus you have to get a bigger car than you'd otherwise need, and torture its drivetrain and suspension by towing. You limit yourself to holidaying in the UK, and travelling by car. You suffer the hatred of other road users, and the giggles and snide comments of friends and work colleagues.
Given the above, and that the average caravan is used only a few times per year, the financial argument is overwhelming - you're mad to have a caravan. Therefore we have to wonder, why do people do it?
The answer, I fear, is that the owners' personal habits rule out sleeping on any bed they do not own.
Caravanning - the incontinents' holiday.
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I agree strowger, why do people have caravans? I was under the impression people bought a caravan because they enjoy travelling on a regular basis, not just an annual summer holiday, but weekends away throughout the year. So why do you see so many left sitting on driveways for at least 51 weeks of the year? Both of my neighbours own large caravans, which must have cost well over £10k, but they only move for a total of 1 week per year and spend the rest of the time acting as very expensive plastic sheds.
I worked in an estate agents for many years and a hell of a lot of potential buyers who were put off a property purely because neighbours had caravans on driveways. Reasons including them being an eyesore, blocked light, caused visual obstruction to others emerging from driveways etc. More often than not the owners also owned large estate or 4x4 vehicles which they parked in the street creating access problems for other residents.
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Not sure why caravans are incapable of going abroad? *confused*
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If caravanners wonder why they are so disliked it's because they are their own worst enemies. A couple of years ago I turned off the M4 heading for Glastonbury down a narrow, winding road. After a very short while I came up behind a long line of traffic, slowly meandering along. On the occasional stretches where I could see far enough a towed caravan was visible at the front of the line. I occupied the time with counting the vehicles in front of me - 23, including cars, HGVs, and vans. After 20 minutes of this, the line behind me was almost as long as the traffic in front. We passed several pub car parks and open areas where the caravanner could have pulled over and set everybody free, losing no more than a couple of minutes and showing consideration to the other road users. Did he? Did he heck! Why did he have those enormous mirror extensions when he clearly didn't use them, or if he did he didn't give a hoot.
Another reason for the dislike is that no matter how much inconvenience caravanners cause other road users and, boy do they cause some, they are not paying a penny in tax more. Doesn't the Chancellor of the Exchequer realize how much he could raise simply by making a 'congestion charge' on caravans?
In Germany they have an elegant solution: any slow-moving vehicle which has a build-up of more than 4 vehicles behind it has to pull over at the earliest opportunity and let the following traffic past. It works beautifully as they are fined if they do not pull over. Why can't Britain introduce such a law?
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Well, where shall we start? A few observations:
1. 60 mph in the middle lane? Er, 60 is the limit for trailers and caravans on dual carriageways and motorways, and 50 is the national limit on the remainder. Not our fault if we observe them, although I accept that not returning to lane 1 when it is free is inconsiderate - but I suggest you will come across many more solo cars than caravans indulging in lane-hogging. Don't forget also that the outside lane of motorways isn't available to the towers of trailers, so sometimes it can be the hogger in front of the caravan that's causing the problem - sometimes you can't see this from behind.
2. One or two uhappy experiences stuck behind a slow-moving caravan shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. Never been stuck behind a horsebox or an early bus??
3. Believe it or not, a lot of caravans do actually go abroad (and pay a small fortune on the ferries/tunnel to do so!).
4. No tax paid for towing? What about additional fuel tax resulting from higher consumption? I'm not complaining, but it's quite a lot if you are going long distances (51-52 mpg down to 30-31 in my case).
5. German major routes are better than ours, enabling better progress to be made - and in a better state of repair. I try to avoid UK potholes and the like with a ton and a quarter on the back.
6. Used for just one week a year? Really? There are plenty that go away many times a year. I also use mine for business - a good deal cheaper than a hotel - and the service is better!
7. Bigger car? Well, my TDCi Mondy Est is a family car first and foremost, but it tows a treat as well. A 4x4 is essential for the large twin-axle vans, but most of us make do with something a little more modest.
In terms of road safety - remember that patience is a virtue. And cheer yourself up with the thought that caravanning has never been more popular!!
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Comming from someone who has a one in the family, i couldn't agree more CG.
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our caravan gets used so we have somewhere to sleep in reasonable comfort, when we attend bmx racing. most of the tracks we race at are in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fields(no holiday inn, travel lodge etc. nearby). i personally pull over on A roads if i am holding traffic up although i am usually going at around the limit if the road conditions allow it. on motorways i usually stick to the inside lane as there are too many idiots about and hey i dont need to rush if i get held up so what. people with no patience annoy me a lot more than being stuck behind someone else for a few miles.life is too short, chill out you will get there in the end. and alive if you just have patience...cheers...keo.
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We've been round this before.
Although my main irritation when towing is drivers who centre lane hog on the motorway and won't move over for me, I am now thinking seriously about going slowly everywhere just to help a few of you more stressy drivers closer to the heart attack you are probably heading for. :-)
Maybe we should have a special thread "The Intolerance Thread", which would soon reach Volume XX. For instance, see also tinyurl.com/8owv3 from today...and I could list another at least twenty threads where some other identifable group doesn't suit someone else...
Ho hum...
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6. Used for just one week a year? Really? There are plenty that go away many times a year. I also use mine for business - a good deal cheaper than a hotel - and the service is better!
I am glad to hear you are using your caravan. We have a total of 12 in our street alone, 1 moves for more than a week a year, 3 move for a maximum of 1 week a year and the rest have been rotting on the owners driveways for at least 6 years. I just dont understand why someone would buy one to just leave it sitting there to rot. It seems such a waste of money.
I do know of two people who go on holiday in their caravan for one week a year, but its kept on a local site the rest of the time so they have somewhere to go at the weekends, or like you do some office work, without the hassle filling it with gear, towing, booking a site etc. OK it might only move for one week a year but at least they are getting some use out of it the rest of the time.
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Given the above, and that the average caravan is used only a few times per year, the financial argument is overwhelming - you're mad to have a caravan. Therefore we have to wonder, why do people do it?"
They aren't always expensive - my caravan cost £50.
I don't mind pulling over when there are cars behind me (I posted a long answer on this one some months ago).
But I'd like the courtesy to be returned by other drivers too - not just tractors, but lorries, buses, and men in hats.
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We bought a tent a few years back so we could stay overnight when we go to car shows. It cost us £250 and if we dont get to use it for 5 or 6 weekends a year I worry about how much it cost me and how little we use it.
But when I asked my neighbour how much he paid for his "use one week a year" caravan and he told me £14500. So why am I worrying about a £250 tent??
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When towing my caravan I usually have the problem of other drivers slowing me down. My Chipped Caravelle TDi is well capable
of maintaining well above legal speeds.
The 50mph limit on single Carriageway roads for towing is too slow does cause frustration for other drivers.
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>>The 50mph limit on single Carriageway roads for towing is too slow>>
Having seen far too many caravans snaking behind a towing vehicle because they have not been loaded properly, the mind boggles at such combinations going even faster...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Having seen far too many caravans snaking behind a towing vehicle because they have not been loaded properly, the mind boggles at such combinations going even faster...:-)
It's called natural selection. Lose the speed limits for caravans and some of the weedy cars will blow up and some of the badly laden 'vans will snake, turn over and die. After the third or fourth such incident, it's to be hoped their owners will get the message and use Travelodges instead.
Of course, being the perfect caravanner that I am, I always pull over for following drivers, have a car that is capable of towing at a reasonable speed and have a caravan correctly laden and serviced. ;-)
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Gosh, CG, I didn't realize that caravanners worry about my life and are concerned about prolonging it. And all this time I thought it was beause they were too mean to pay for a B&B.
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"Gosh, CG, I didn't realize that caravanners worry about my life and are concerned about prolonging it. "
I DO wish people wouldn't generalise. I'm a caravanner and I'm not in the least concerned about prolonging your life.
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"I DO wish people wouldn't generalise. I'm a caravanner and I'm not in the least concerned about prolonging your life."
Now that sounds like a really dangerous driver. He's not concerned about other road users' lives. It must have been he who almost wiped out my wife and children by driving too fast downhill and started snaking all over the road just as I was overtaking.
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Far from it Bill. You're jumping to conclusions. I wasn't generalising - it was only your life, in the light of your snide comments about caravanners. :-)
I consider myself a safe and considerate driver, towing or not. I put a lot of work into my driving - do you?
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In our case, with a couple of dogs, the saving in kennel fees pays for the caravan storage.
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We know caravan drivers have a great following on the road,that's the problem ;)
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Nothing changes much over the years.
In 1952 a Mr.Forbes had a letter published in 'The Caravan'. He claimed that uprating his engine from 8hp to 10hp improved the towing capabilities of his Ford Prefect and that suspension improvements meant that he could travel at speeds of up to 30mph without the 'van snaking.
There is also a mention of single wheel trailers (but no details). Apparently, they were widely available during the 40's and 50's but don't seem to be available today. Does anybody know why ?
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I towed a (large) caravan with a Jaguar XJ6 and fitted it with a stabiliser. I never had any queues behind me and my major problem was the lack of suitable long stretches to vertake the slow cars in front of me.
But 15mpg!
As far as economics are concerned: if you have a family of 2 adults and 3 kids, a normal type of hotel bill is going to be £1,000 per week in the UK. (especially if you have mixed sexes so 2 off children's rooms. ). So if you caravan 3-4 times a year you can afford to eat out well on holiday:-)
Personally I used to be amazed at the number of caravanners who had never mastered the art of reversing onto a caravan site.
madf
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I tow a caravan. When I'm towing my caravan I frequently get stuck behind slow moving vehicles. Sometimes these are slow for a good reason, lorries, horseboxes etc. and it's understandable and I just live and let live, I don't get stressed about it. However, sometimes I get stuck behind solo cars being driven very slowly. This has two effects: firstly, I get frustrated because the driver in front (usually wearing a hat) is driving so slowly for no discernable reason: secondly, the queue of cars behind me can't see the car holding me up, so automatically think "damn caravans" and blame me. For those people who have never towed, this happens far more often that you think!!
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I hate them. I live just outside Skipton, and frequently have to travel along the A65 to get to see family in the lakes - as you can imagine this road, leading through the dales to the lakes is very popular with caravans in the summer. In 8 years of travelling backwards and forwards along this road, I have been held up literally dozens of times by caravans a the front of huge lines of traffic (granted horseboxes as well, but not as often) and never, ever has one pulled over to let traffic go past. They also travel in blinking convoy, making overtaking even harder, and some of them even close the gaps to 'punish' you for having the nerve to overtake them one at a time "there - a head on collision at 60mph - that'll teach you to overtake when i don't think it's appropriate, young fella me lad".
hate them hate them hate them hate them...
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Where's that intolerance thread when you need it? LOL
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So what ever happened to "Live and let live"?
All you guys who are in such a hurry to get everywhere should really chill out. Your blood pressure must be at an unhealthy level so why not just stay in the queue and enjoy the scenery??
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>>why not just stay in thequeue and enjoy the scenery??
Because we're not there out of choice. Because we're there to get somewhere, not look at the scenery.
Grow up.
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well ive been towing a box on wheels now for well over 1 year with a 3.0L td 4x4 excellent weight to power ratio....and i feel most people who hate or dislike caravanners can swivel, theres no finer feeling than getting a line of irate drivers behind us and showing them the bird as we tootle down the road, what comes around goes around, all the crap we get off inept small memberd drivers who can do one thing and one thing only and thats speed you deserve to be stuck behind my plastic shed.
P.S mines made of sheet aluminium.
you never know by being behind me for 20 miles or so at 60ish may just save your life, but if you have a heart attack because of the stress caused in doing so well pink fluffy dice happens. so long suckers and i'll look out for you in my extended mirrors.
{Attempt at bypassing the swearfilter edited. See sticky on top of the page regarding swearing policy of this site. DD}
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I have found horse boxes and horse trailers worse than caravans at holding up the traffic and refusing to pull in to let people pass.
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Lets ban lorries too. They go 60 max, slow down on hills, think they own the road and don't leave a gap inbetween other lorries on smaller toads. Come to think of it they are used each day of the year, there's flippin millions of em. They are much worse than caravans.
No one curses lorries....we accept them because we have to. Caravans get picked on because people jump on the bandwagon. It's a kind of bullying...which explains why they get so riled at seeing a caravan in front (as opposed to a lorry). They are bullies 'Get out of the way, I'm not towing anything and faster than you. I need to get some milk quick and you are ahead of me'. All potential road rage candidates.
I do not own a caravan.
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Hello
What I would like to see for caravans....
As a caravanner for 20 odd years - on the road + in caravan parks + in driveway - some sort of tax would be appropriate, whether on fuel or some other means.
This would ensure private motorists would pay according to usage, which would help solve 4*4, big cars, sport cars etc differences, and if a USA Hummer can deliver 50mpg + be sold new for £10000, all well and good.
HGV's (delivery vehicles etc) taxes can be reduced by the extra funds raised from private motorists or proportioned by the chancellor according to road space available / types of vehicles.
But then again, shouldn't the government first produce what it stated it would in 1997 - a reliable integrated transport system?
There should be compulsory MOT's for caravans (even although I do my own maintenance). The certificate should include the minimum weight of car allowed to tow the caravan.
What I would object to is any proposal to use only main caravan dealers to MOT a caravan.
Any MOT station should be allowed to carry out this work, since only road running gear should be checked. Things like fridges, heaters etc in caravan - these need only be checked out every 5 years or so.
There is no compulsion to have house fridges and heaters checked.
The reason why I object to only caravan dealers carrying out any MLOT type test is:-
I have bought two new caravans and when collected after having had a delivery inspection...
1st. 10psi difference in tyre pressures
No vents installed for fridge (was told these were not required)
Carpet area of caravan covered in rubbish + results of fridge installation.
Other boring defects...
2nd The official dealer was a crook, who was eventually sent to jail for dodgy caravan dealing.
The caravan bought was good. This was due to it being made by Bailey - a forward thinking company.
There were some doubts about the dealer as the purchase progressed, which were confirmed after purchase.
By the way, whether towing caravan or not, in my travels between Aberdeen & Portsmouth, I slow down to let faster cars past and expect cars to let out others wanting to pass - but then, that's my opinion.
Whew! Got carried away there!
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