I have been searching for the thread about the oil for my Honda Accord diesel, and can only assume it disappeared to that thread heaven last week-end.
Someone replied to say, if I recall correctly, there were only "two" manufacturers of 0w-30 motor oil. Could he, or anyone else, let me know the brands, please?
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By strange coincidence, I was looking at one (Castrol SLX) tonight in Halfords and wondering whether it offered any advantage over the 10W-40 I would normally use. A bit less drag I suppose, and the ability to operate at -50deg, although I'm not sure I fancy using my motorbike in those conditions...
Mobil do one too, I believe.
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Mobil 1 is available as 0W-30:
tinyurl.com/9rszg
but it is clearly intended for very high-performance engines in extreme conditions.
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but it is clearly intended for very high-performance engines in extreme conditions.
0W-30 is not suitable for many engines in very high temperature situations.
My Kawasaki dealer recomends 10W-40 semi synth for all normal use (says synth has no advantages over 4k change intervals) and only 0W-30 synth for racing where reduced friction offers slightly more power though potentially at the expense of engine longetivity.
My Ford dealer is clear that semi synth meeting the Ford spec is best for Ford engines and that, again, synth has no advantages over 12.5k change intervals.
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Mobil 1 is available as 0W-30:
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roger jones -
your link takes you to the mobil 1 racing oil.
there is another mobil 1 0w-30, as stated on your link
" Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 is a different formula than Mobil 1 with SuperSyn 0W-30. "
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Try Total, and Fuchs as well as Castrol and Mobil. Opie Oils have them. BTW, I thought the 0w/30 grade was pretty commonplace as VW/Audi use this viscosity for their extended drain intervals, as well as Honda, who recommend it for the 2.2 diesel, as someone pointed out in the vanished thread.
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Someone replied to say, if I recall correctly, there were only "two" manufacturers of 0w-30 motor oil
www .opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htmn -- remove spaces after www
sales @opieoils.co.uk -- remove spaces after sales.
Total and Fuchs, as nortones2 says above --- I also put them in the vapourised thread.
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buzbee - i think your link has an extraneous "n" on the end.
also, i am puzzled why opieoils do not seem to have any details of castrol longlife slx 2.
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Thanks, Dalglish. The Mobil website is not a model of clarity and I haven't yet found "SuperSyn 0W-30".
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Thanks, Dalglish. The Mobil website is not a model of clarity and I haven't yet found "SuperSyn 0W-30".
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it is here:
www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMob...p
the reason you cannot find it in the uk is probabaly because it may be a "usa only" product.
however, note that fuchs and mobil both use the "supersyn" trade name.
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extraneous "n" on the end
Well spotted. Mystic Megs are at work.
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Some oil data says they are suited to "fuel injection engines" and I am curious to know whether there is something extra in their oil formulation or it is just good extra sales blurb. Perhaps I should google some of the extra numbers in their specs.
My last service made mention of routinely having used £14 of fuel line cleaner on a 1 year service!
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I bought a four litre container of Castrol Formula RS this morning from Makro. It's 0W-40 and exceeds the various specifications for synthetic engine oil - according to the blurb on the label.
I presume this should be OK for my Accord.
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See:
www.mini2.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-13657
It includes the comment: "0W30 has a slightly wider viscosity range for use in extremely cold climates. Since it includes the full viscosity range of the 5W30 it meets the recommendation."
This link:
forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/185482.phtml
includes the statement: "Fuel economy has already improved by leaps and bounds with the switch down from 10W40 to 5W30 motor oil. "Now, they're talking about 0W20," says Timmerman.
"So, all of a sudden you have a new challenge. Is 0W20 thick enough to protect the engine?"
Unfortunately as it was written about two years ago, the link to the piece being discussed is no longer available...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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"Now, they're talking about 0W20"
Hmmm - since you can already get 0W-40 (0W-50 in the case of the original Mobil 1, IIRC) I'm not clear why a smaller range might be better. All oils thin out with temperature (multigrades just don't thin as much) so even 50-grade is pretty fluid at working temperature. I can only think that a narrower range requires fewer additives, so you get more of the useful stuff, in which case we could all go back to straight 30 grade for the summer...
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I'm not clear why a smaller range might be better.
I'm no expert on this, but surely a smaller range would be better - this means that the state of the oil (viscosity primarily) will vary less with temperature. As long as that state is suitable, this would mean that, hot or cold, the oil is providing the best protection to your engine.
The wider the range, the more variability, the more chance that at some temperature (be that very hot or very cold) your engine is open to being damaged.
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"The wider the range, the more variability"
You'd think so, wouldn't you? However, although the higher the number the greater the viscosity, the temperature effect outweighs it, so that although 40 grade is thicker than 10 grade at any one temperature, 40 grade at 100 degrees is thinner than cold 10 grade.
Presumably, the holy grail is an oil whose viscosity stays the same regardless of temperature, but I think that's some way off yet...
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Why do you presume that it will be OK? What does Honda (the UK HQ, not the dealer) say is required? Follow that, I'd suggest. I think someone, on the lost threads, found that Honda recommended 0w/30 oil for the 2.2 diesel.
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Why do you presume that it will be OK? What does Honda (the UK HQ, not the dealer) say is required? Follow that, I'd suggest. I think someone, on the lost threads, found that Honda recommended 0w/30 oil for the 2.2 diesel.
Castrol Formula RS meets or exceeds the requirements of the following specifications SAE 0W-40. Exceeds API SJ/CF ACEA A3/B3/B4, according to Castrol. In the circumstances, why shouldn't be OK?
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The ACEA grades quoted are current, but you can forget the API spec. quoted, as they don't test on diesel car engines, and CF is an irrelevance nowadays. For example, MB and VW have requirements in addition to ACEA, e.g. 229.xx (MB) and VW 505.01, and soon 504/507. I don't know what Honda recommend in addition to the ACEA standards, if anything. The viscosity grade they appear to recommend is 0w/30 which may have a marginal effect on fuel consumption, which is an issue for some here! However, its the manufacturer's call on this.
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Out of interest I was doing a search for Castrol Formula RS to try and find some information about it. I came across a site that sells this oil and it was £40.97 for a four litre container. I bought the identical product at Makro for £14.98 plus VAT.
Has someone at Makro slipped up, or is the other company overcharging?
Here's the url for the expensive product.
www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/catalogue/product_detail.as...h
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Anyone care to comment on the huge price difference?
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Are you the guy who thought that a Honda dealer had used the wrong oil in his icdti Accord? The handbook clearly states that only 0-30W synthetic oil should be used in these diesel engines. Valvoline, as well as Castrol, Total and Fuchs produce this oil.
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Comma oil also make a 0-30W
Their website is : www.commaoil.com/
Actually a very good oil (Comma owned by Exxon/Mobil) and at a very good price. This oil is essentially repackaged Esso Ultron an extremely good oil.
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Narrow viscosity oils are more shear stable (stay in grade longer) because they need less VI Improvers to make them work.
Oil basestocks don't lose viscosity, it's the VI Improvers that "shear down" with use.
Viscosity Index Improvers.
An oils viscosity will decrease as the engine temperature rises. Viscosity Index Improvers are added to reduce this thinning. They are a key addative in the production of multigrade oils.
VI Improvers are heat sensitive long chain, high molecular weight polymers that increase the relative viscosity of the oil at high temperatures. They work like springs, coiled at low temperatures and uncoiling at high temperatures. This makes the molecules larger (at high temps) which increases internal resistance within the thinning oil. They in effect "fight back" against the viscosity loss in the oil.
"Shearing"
The long chain molecules in VI Improvers are prone to "shearing" with use which reduces their ability to prevent the oil from losing viscosity. This "shearing" occurs when shear stress ruptures the long chain molecules and converts them to shorter, lower weight molecules. The shorter, lower weight molecules offer less resistance to flow and their ability to maintain viscosity is reduced.
This shearing not only reduces the viscosity of the oil but can cause piston ring sticking (due to deposits), increased oil consumption and increased engine wear.
Like basestock quality, VI Improvers also vary in quality. The best quality ones are normally found in synthetic oils (Group IV - PAO / Group V - Esters) and it is important to understand that the less of these in the oil the better the oil will stay in grade.
Which oils require more VI Improvers?
There are two scenarios where large amounts of these polymers are required as a rule.
Firstly in "wide viscosity" multigrades. By this I mean that the difference between the lower "W" number and the higher number is large for example 5w-50 (diff 45) and 10w-60 (diff 50) are what is termed as "wide viscosity" oils.
Narrow viscosity oils like 0w-30 (diff 30) or 5w-40 (diff 35) require far less VI Improvers and therefore are less prone to "shearing".
Secondly, mineral and hydrocracked (petroleum synthetic oils) require more VI Improvers than proper PAO/Ester (Group IV or V) synthetic oils as they are less thermally stable to begin with and this is due to the non-uniform molecules in petroleum oils as opposed to the uniformity of synthetics built in laboratories by chemists.
It is a fact that some synthetics require little or no VI Improvers to work as a multigrade due to their superior thermal stability.
As for the original question, Honda recommend 5w-40 and 0w-40
Cheers
Simon
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Interesting reading the posts on the Honda 2.2 iCTDi. I'm just about to have my first non-Hondas service, so I thought I'd buy the oil, just to be on the safe side. Here are my findings ...
Last two Honda services - "Shell Helix Semi Synth". The only one I can find is Shell Helix Plus which is a 10w-40.
Now the handbook recommends "highly recommends 0w-30 synthetic ACEA B1" - so interesting the dealers don't use this. (Mine came 2nd-hand with a litre of Helix Ultra in the back - a 5w-40 fully synth).
HOWEVER - the handbook also lists several other viscosities and spec - ACEA B3. The only riders are 1) higher viscosities may affect fuel consumption, and 2) low temperature limitations. 10w-40 is the highest viscosity recommended, and that's OK right down to -20C.
So it looks like Honda dealers are using the 'poorest' recommended grade - hmmm.
I'm going for Comma Xtech - 5w-30 ACEA B1. Should give OK fuel consumption (better than Honda's 10w-40 - no wonder my mpg's only 41) and as a semi synth it should be cheaper than the 0w-30 stuff - another bonus as it takes 6 lts!
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Is it an EU4 diesel?
If so, wouldn't it need a low ash oil like Mobil 1 ESP (Emission System Protection) or Castrol Edge (Edge is the new name for SLX) Turbo Diesel?
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